This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Last weekend due to the exceptional snow and ski-ing conditions there were long queues of cars attempting to access the Cairngorm ski area car parks. Due to lack of parking space this meant many cars could not get up to the carpark areas. As a result the gates were shut at Glenmore. The end result was traffic congestion. This caused several incidents and raised fears for emergency access and public safety issues. Cairngorm Mountain staff bore the brunt of people’s frustrations including being assaulted and abused. In response to this Cairngorm Mountain consulted various local agencies to see how this could best be managed in future. Given that this weekend is going to be very busy climbers heading to the Northern Corries might want to be aware of the result of a meeting between the various agencies and the local police, as this will affect our own activities as well (Glenmore Lodge is not exempt from this - it affects us as well no special dispensation for us getting up the road just before anyone asks!).
This is what was agreed:
“Further to the internal review and welcome discussion with Glenmore neighbours undertaken by CML this week following a number of issues and concerns over traffic management at the Glenmore snow gates last weekend, a meeting and site visit was held at CML this morning with the police Area Inspector and members of the local police team. CML are very grateful to the police for their prompt and supportive response to local concerns on these issues. The following points and agreements were made at the meeting:
1. The police fully support, endorse and approve CML staff to manage safe access to the public roads above Glenmore Gates in conjunction with the formal agreement CML have with the Highland Council (THC); this includes CML taking the decision and action to close and man the snow gates if the road is deemed unsafe because of adverse weather and/or when the CML site and car parks has reached capacity. The decision to shut the gates is always based on the ability to 'provide and maintain safe access and egress' from the site and this includes the prevention of inappropriate car parking on the roadways
2. The police are satisfied that joint working initiatives between CML, THC and FCS are addressing the snow clearing and gritting of the access roads and of the car parks and lay-by areas in the Glenmore area. It is recognised that considerable mutual work has been undertaken this week to deal with the blockages and verge encroachments caused by recent heavy snowfalls
3. The police fully recognise and support the CML concern that traffic issues at Glenmore last weekend are likely to have prevented or seriously impeded emergency vehicle access in the area should it have been required. This is not an acceptable situation and the police will take immediate action if this situation is repeated or likely to happen
4. The police recognise and encourage the steps taken by CML to provide accurate and updated information to customers using a range of media including road signs, local radio, websites, advance warning to local businesses, emails, telephone messages, 'top tips to avoid the rush'
5. The following actions were agreed to be implemented immediately:
a. CML will contact the Aviemore police station as soon as the decision to shut the Glenmore gate is taken whether for adverse weather or site capacity reached. CML staff should also inform the police if/when the gate is re-opened and if the gate is to be left shut at the end of the day due to continued adverse weather. THC should also be informed if the gate is closed or re-opened due to adverse weather.
b. The police will provide 'police no waiting' cones to CML to be used at the Glenmore gates turning area to ensure vehicles can be turned at the gates (CML will retain these cones in the Glenmore garage when not required)
c. The local police will ensure all on-duty police staff are briefed of the situation and potential issues at Glenmore gates especially during the current half-term holiday period and good snowsports conditions
d. The local police will endeavour to include Glenmore on a regular patrol but will be dependant on prevailing resources and priorities
e. CML are to keep the local police station briefed on the situation at the gates when the gates have been closed. CML should ensure that when the gates are shut at busy traffic times a senior member of staff plus support is stationed at the gates - no lone workers. CML staff should fully explain the safety reasons for shutting the gates to queuing customers indicating they have full police approval. CML gate staff should advise queuing customers that the gates may be shut permanently or for long periods and recommend turning around to find suitable safe parking and getting public transport up to to CML. CML must advise all queuing customers and inappropriately parked customers that clear and safe access for emergency vehicles must be maintained and that the police will be called if this safe access is impeded
f. CML gate staff must not get drawn into reacting to abusive language or reaction from any frustrated customer or member of the public informing such people that any continued abuse will be reported to the police. Any continued abuse or refusal to comply with a reasonable safety request should be reported to the local police (810222) immediately by CML staff and any details and vehicle registration numbers taken. The police will attend and will formally process such complaints
g. CML staff must wear Hi-Viz bibs when on gate staff duty and be in possession of a radio
6. The area Police Inspector reiterated that the police will fully support the CML gate staff who should have no hesitation whatsoever in contacting the police if:
• Safe access and egress for emergency vehicles cannot be maintained
• The prevailing road traffic situation becomes unmanageable and there are potential accident risks
• If the level of abuse to gate staff is unacceptable or there is a public order issue
7. It was agreed that a further review of the situation would be undertaken after the weekend between CML and the local police station
Paul Corrigan MBE
HSEQ Manager
(Health & Safety, Environmental & Quality)
Cairngorm Mountain Ltd
End”
This is what was agreed:
“Further to the internal review and welcome discussion with Glenmore neighbours undertaken by CML this week following a number of issues and concerns over traffic management at the Glenmore snow gates last weekend, a meeting and site visit was held at CML this morning with the police Area Inspector and members of the local police team. CML are very grateful to the police for their prompt and supportive response to local concerns on these issues. The following points and agreements were made at the meeting:
1. The police fully support, endorse and approve CML staff to manage safe access to the public roads above Glenmore Gates in conjunction with the formal agreement CML have with the Highland Council (THC); this includes CML taking the decision and action to close and man the snow gates if the road is deemed unsafe because of adverse weather and/or when the CML site and car parks has reached capacity. The decision to shut the gates is always based on the ability to 'provide and maintain safe access and egress' from the site and this includes the prevention of inappropriate car parking on the roadways
2. The police are satisfied that joint working initiatives between CML, THC and FCS are addressing the snow clearing and gritting of the access roads and of the car parks and lay-by areas in the Glenmore area. It is recognised that considerable mutual work has been undertaken this week to deal with the blockages and verge encroachments caused by recent heavy snowfalls
3. The police fully recognise and support the CML concern that traffic issues at Glenmore last weekend are likely to have prevented or seriously impeded emergency vehicle access in the area should it have been required. This is not an acceptable situation and the police will take immediate action if this situation is repeated or likely to happen
4. The police recognise and encourage the steps taken by CML to provide accurate and updated information to customers using a range of media including road signs, local radio, websites, advance warning to local businesses, emails, telephone messages, 'top tips to avoid the rush'
5. The following actions were agreed to be implemented immediately:
a. CML will contact the Aviemore police station as soon as the decision to shut the Glenmore gate is taken whether for adverse weather or site capacity reached. CML staff should also inform the police if/when the gate is re-opened and if the gate is to be left shut at the end of the day due to continued adverse weather. THC should also be informed if the gate is closed or re-opened due to adverse weather.
b. The police will provide 'police no waiting' cones to CML to be used at the Glenmore gates turning area to ensure vehicles can be turned at the gates (CML will retain these cones in the Glenmore garage when not required)
c. The local police will ensure all on-duty police staff are briefed of the situation and potential issues at Glenmore gates especially during the current half-term holiday period and good snowsports conditions
d. The local police will endeavour to include Glenmore on a regular patrol but will be dependant on prevailing resources and priorities
e. CML are to keep the local police station briefed on the situation at the gates when the gates have been closed. CML should ensure that when the gates are shut at busy traffic times a senior member of staff plus support is stationed at the gates - no lone workers. CML staff should fully explain the safety reasons for shutting the gates to queuing customers indicating they have full police approval. CML gate staff should advise queuing customers that the gates may be shut permanently or for long periods and recommend turning around to find suitable safe parking and getting public transport up to to CML. CML must advise all queuing customers and inappropriately parked customers that clear and safe access for emergency vehicles must be maintained and that the police will be called if this safe access is impeded
f. CML gate staff must not get drawn into reacting to abusive language or reaction from any frustrated customer or member of the public informing such people that any continued abuse will be reported to the police. Any continued abuse or refusal to comply with a reasonable safety request should be reported to the local police (810222) immediately by CML staff and any details and vehicle registration numbers taken. The police will attend and will formally process such complaints
g. CML staff must wear Hi-Viz bibs when on gate staff duty and be in possession of a radio
6. The area Police Inspector reiterated that the police will fully support the CML gate staff who should have no hesitation whatsoever in contacting the police if:
• Safe access and egress for emergency vehicles cannot be maintained
• The prevailing road traffic situation becomes unmanageable and there are potential accident risks
• If the level of abuse to gate staff is unacceptable or there is a public order issue
7. It was agreed that a further review of the situation would be undertaken after the weekend between CML and the local police station
Paul Corrigan MBE
HSEQ Manager
(Health & Safety, Environmental & Quality)
Cairngorm Mountain Ltd
End”
In reply to george mc: Thanks George, might change plans in light of this!
In reply to george mc:
Thanks for the heads up.
Have you any info on when the parking charges will be introduced. This year? Iv'e heard coinflicting rumours.
James e
Thanks for the heads up.
Have you any info on when the parking charges will be introduced. This year? Iv'e heard coinflicting rumours.
James e
In reply to george mc: The taxpayers eg CML could provide a fleet of coaches ? With trailers for bags/skis ? Park and ride up ?
Nick
Nick
In reply to James Edwards:
Sorry missed your post. Not heard any rumours myself, and certainly none about parking charges being introduced this year.
Sorry missed your post. Not heard any rumours myself, and certainly none about parking charges being introduced this year.
In reply to george mc:
Thanks for the info...
The behaviour of some of the ski area visitors and drivers when the road has been difficult recently has been unbelievable.
Not looking forward to the traffic and parking chaos during the School midterm!
BTW check your email.
Cheers Ron
Thanks for the info...
The behaviour of some of the ski area visitors and drivers when the road has been difficult recently has been unbelievable.
Not looking forward to the traffic and parking chaos during the School midterm!
BTW check your email.
Cheers Ron
In reply to george mc: that'll be all those thieving snowboarders causin trouble again.
Was this ever a problem in the past as not in my memory. I guess it is the cost of success and a good winter.
What if you have snow chains, will they let you up then?
What if (as climbers do) you arrive very early doors before all the skiers and it ain't bad but the forecast is for heavy snow?
There seems to be a lot of what if scenarios.
There needs to be some clear signage on the A9 etc. to highlight the current situation for the ski-car park, so people don't arrive mad for it only to find out its a wasted journey. Radio reception is a bit hit and miss for anouncements in my experience and so bad that a CD is the best option.
Hard to picture hundreds of cars all waiting at the gates on the nod of a couple of people. That is some pressure to be put under. Maybe better to leave them locked with a notice of a number to call for info.
Was this ever a problem in the past as not in my memory. I guess it is the cost of success and a good winter.
What if you have snow chains, will they let you up then?
What if (as climbers do) you arrive very early doors before all the skiers and it ain't bad but the forecast is for heavy snow?
There seems to be a lot of what if scenarios.
There needs to be some clear signage on the A9 etc. to highlight the current situation for the ski-car park, so people don't arrive mad for it only to find out its a wasted journey. Radio reception is a bit hit and miss for anouncements in my experience and so bad that a CD is the best option.
Hard to picture hundreds of cars all waiting at the gates on the nod of a couple of people. That is some pressure to be put under. Maybe better to leave them locked with a notice of a number to call for info.
In reply to Ron Walker: Mob rule and fisticuffs last weekend- bedlam! I'd never seen so many self-centred people behaving badly in one place, was glad to stay snowbound at Badaguish after an hour or so waiting and watching at Glenmore shop. The couple having an argument in their car were unremarkable until she hit the sunroof switch forgetting that there was a foot of snow on the roof of everyone's car - after his snow shower hubby stepped out of the car, slammed the door and disappeared back towards Aviemore. About the only pice of light relief to be had....
Al
Al
In reply to AlH:
Ha thats quite amusing AL.
Good points made though as it was chaos up there, I aborted the car at the bottom of Loch Morlich and skinned round the Loch Edge. Not before some idiot in a 4x4 tried to get past me as I waited for traffic to come though by driving up the embankment then slid back just missing me but hit the car infront of me that was coming through !! The driver of the hit car did duelly dispense a thump to the 4x4 driver ! It was at that point I thought abort all moterised transport and move to the planks !!
Dan
Ha thats quite amusing AL.
Good points made though as it was chaos up there, I aborted the car at the bottom of Loch Morlich and skinned round the Loch Edge. Not before some idiot in a 4x4 tried to get past me as I waited for traffic to come though by driving up the embankment then slid back just missing me but hit the car infront of me that was coming through !! The driver of the hit car did duelly dispense a thump to the 4x4 driver ! It was at that point I thought abort all moterised transport and move to the planks !!
Dan
In reply to Dan Goodwin:Aye it was definitely a weekend for planks. Even I made a rare (highly enjoyable) foray onto nordic skis. The staff on the gate have a tough job to do with the best interests of hillgoers at heart. They can't be expected to know whether you are an experienced well equipped snow driver or a total punter but they are expected to pick up the pieces and pull folks out of ditches and snow drifts when it all goes pear shaped. Often things seem fine at the gates but the last corner to the upper carpark is heavily drifted and the Ciste carpark a skating rink. I'm all for freedom to choose your own level of risk but when there are hundreds of people and vehicles involved someone has to make a decision and co-ordinate things. The management on the mountain have more experience of the ski road and managing its users than anyone else so IMHO they are well placed to make the call about when to let people up.
Al
Al
In reply to yer maw:
I was disappointed at the info given over on the local Speyside radio by Cairngorm Mountain. On several days when heavy snowfall closed the road the cars were backed right up to Aviemore. If clear info was given that the road was closed this could be prevented somewhat.
With regard to snow chains I seem to remember that drivers were advised by signage on the ski road and ski area info to have snow chains in the past. When we've been in the French alps the police would check to make sure you had proper winter equipment before letting you onto the mountain road passes and ski resorts during heavy snowfall. Why not something similar here? I've got an ordinary front wheel drive car with snow tyres and chains for emergencies and managed to get about OK when the roads were bad or even closed despite living on one of the highest Scottish road passes. IMO city four wheel drives with low profile tyres are a road safety menace, environmental disgrace and should be banned.
I was disappointed at the info given over on the local Speyside radio by Cairngorm Mountain. On several days when heavy snowfall closed the road the cars were backed right up to Aviemore. If clear info was given that the road was closed this could be prevented somewhat.
With regard to snow chains I seem to remember that drivers were advised by signage on the ski road and ski area info to have snow chains in the past. When we've been in the French alps the police would check to make sure you had proper winter equipment before letting you onto the mountain road passes and ski resorts during heavy snowfall. Why not something similar here? I've got an ordinary front wheel drive car with snow tyres and chains for emergencies and managed to get about OK when the roads were bad or even closed despite living on one of the highest Scottish road passes. IMO city four wheel drives with low profile tyres are a road safety menace, environmental disgrace and should be banned.
In reply to Ron Walker:It sounds from your local perspective as if communcation is part of the problem. Reading between the lines of George's first post it doesn't sound as if the police can afford a full time presence on the ski road when there has been heavy snowfall and they are stretched dealing with other incidents as it is.
Al
Al
In reply to AlH:
Yesterday my neighbour got a digger in to clear our parking area after a few idiots in 4x4's manage to trash the smooth packed snow road surface by spinning their 4 wheels at high revs and creating huge trenches that froze up after they got stuck. Up until then I didn't have any major problems in getting in and out from my house in a standard two wheel drive car with snow tyres despite the deep hard packed snow. So as far as I can see the advantage of the 4x4 without off road or snow tyres is they can dig bigger ruts in soft ground due to having higher ground clearance!!!
How was your day on the hill today, what did you do?
Cheers Ron
Yesterday my neighbour got a digger in to clear our parking area after a few idiots in 4x4's manage to trash the smooth packed snow road surface by spinning their 4 wheels at high revs and creating huge trenches that froze up after they got stuck. Up until then I didn't have any major problems in getting in and out from my house in a standard two wheel drive car with snow tyres despite the deep hard packed snow. So as far as I can see the advantage of the 4x4 without off road or snow tyres is they can dig bigger ruts in soft ground due to having higher ground clearance!!!
How was your day on the hill today, what did you do?
Cheers Ron
In reply to Ron Walker:
'IMO city four wheel drives with low profile tyres are a road safety menace, environmental disgrace and should be banned.'
I agree totally get rid of the 4x4 cars no need for them on the roads. Did see quite a few 4x4 ragging the engine with wheels spinning and going nowhere it doesnt matter whether you have 10 wheel drive if the tyres wont grip they wont grip !
In a Halfords in London you can actually buy spray on mud to make your 4x4 look like you use it offroad !
Dan
'IMO city four wheel drives with low profile tyres are a road safety menace, environmental disgrace and should be banned.'
I agree totally get rid of the 4x4 cars no need for them on the roads. Did see quite a few 4x4 ragging the engine with wheels spinning and going nowhere it doesnt matter whether you have 10 wheel drive if the tyres wont grip they wont grip !
In a Halfords in London you can actually buy spray on mud to make your 4x4 look like you use it offroad !
Dan
In reply to Ron Walker:The end of a week of wading We managed to keep clear of the queues on the ribs the other day by just staying a pitch behind them all! Today went to look at Goat Track Gully but so much deep snow that we reversed our tracks and went to the Pottage again and climbed the rocky ground between Jacob's Edge and Hidden Chimney: http://alanhalewood.blogspot.com/ . Weekend with the wife and the nipper but back east for another week on monday.
In reply to Dan Goodwin:
That's just wrong- but sadly doesn't surprise me!
Al
> (In reply to Ron Walker)
> In a Halfords in London you can actually buy spray on mud to make your 4x4 look like you use it offroad !
That's just wrong- but sadly doesn't surprise me!
Al
In reply to AlH:
Communication is the major problem and despite all the major advances the CM website is not updated or the radio info given as quickly as they could.
The staff on the snowgates informing the public are not in proper communication with CM as far as I can see.
We were waiting in the traffic queue at 9.15 am after hearing on the radio that the road opening would be reviewed again at 11.00 when at the same time a representative of CM was telling drivers that the road opening would be reviewed at 9.00 am. I suppose that doesn't help though doesn't excuse the behaviour of some of the visitors - almost said snowboarders
Communication is the major problem and despite all the major advances the CM website is not updated or the radio info given as quickly as they could.
The staff on the snowgates informing the public are not in proper communication with CM as far as I can see.
We were waiting in the traffic queue at 9.15 am after hearing on the radio that the road opening would be reviewed again at 11.00 when at the same time a representative of CM was telling drivers that the road opening would be reviewed at 9.00 am. I suppose that doesn't help though doesn't excuse the behaviour of some of the visitors - almost said snowboarders
In reply to AlH:
Enjoy the weekend. We'll no doubt bump into each other on the same route next week...!
Cheers
> (In reply to Ron Walker)The end of a week of wading We managed to Weekend with the wife and the nipper but back east for another week on monday.
Enjoy the weekend. We'll no doubt bump into each other on the same route next week...!
Cheers
CML will always be reluctant to close the road as they need the business.
A park and ride would help but where to park first I don't know, don't really know the area. Has anyone been walking the line of cars selling hot chocs ?
Nick
A park and ride would help but where to park first I don't know, don't really know the area. Has anyone been walking the line of cars selling hot chocs ?
Nick
If its not safe enough to take a car to the top car park, surely a coach would be even worse!
In reply to george mc:
We were skiing yesterday and it was comical watching people absolutely horsing the gas in the car park hoping it would push them through. Wheel spins galore and the smell of burning clutches filled the air.
I guess the vast majority of people have never driven in snow before even if they ski in Scotland.
I have friends that work on Cairngorm (voluntarily - well for a free season pass I think) and were helping out last weekend. Some of the stories were unbelievable and disgusting! I was told of one family who decided that they'd drive directly after her as she was flagging cars down to tell them to turn around. "Just drive at her, she'll get out the way" the mother was heard to say. Another woman was screaming that she'd bought a season pass and hadn't been able to use it yet so who was she (my freind) to stop her family getting up the mountain! Pointing out that the hill had been skiable for a month or so didn't seem the best was to calm the situation...
Disgusting behaviour from, at least in some cases, locals that should know the weather and ski situation better!
We were skiing yesterday and it was comical watching people absolutely horsing the gas in the car park hoping it would push them through. Wheel spins galore and the smell of burning clutches filled the air.
I guess the vast majority of people have never driven in snow before even if they ski in Scotland.
I have friends that work on Cairngorm (voluntarily - well for a free season pass I think) and were helping out last weekend. Some of the stories were unbelievable and disgusting! I was told of one family who decided that they'd drive directly after her as she was flagging cars down to tell them to turn around. "Just drive at her, she'll get out the way" the mother was heard to say. Another woman was screaming that she'd bought a season pass and hadn't been able to use it yet so who was she (my freind) to stop her family getting up the mountain! Pointing out that the hill had been skiable for a month or so didn't seem the best was to calm the situation...
Disgusting behaviour from, at least in some cases, locals that should know the weather and ski situation better!
In reply to george mc:
I was out wroking in the Gorms today and found a much better atmosphere and folks seemed to be much calmer ! There was many folks out enjoying different mountain sports was a good day for the hill !!
Dan
I was out wroking in the Gorms today and found a much better atmosphere and folks seemed to be much calmer ! There was many folks out enjoying different mountain sports was a good day for the hill !!
Dan
In reply to Scott_vzr:
I think the changes in society are affecting parking quite a lot. Gone are the days when the mahority of people used to come in buses and therefore less space was used in the carp parks. Undoubtedly there are improvements that could be made to systems but with the varied nature of the Scottish winter these days and a lot of publicity when snow does arrive there will inevitably be large numbers descending on the hills.
I think the changes in society are affecting parking quite a lot. Gone are the days when the mahority of people used to come in buses and therefore less space was used in the carp parks. Undoubtedly there are improvements that could be made to systems but with the varied nature of the Scottish winter these days and a lot of publicity when snow does arrive there will inevitably be large numbers descending on the hills.
In reply to Donald M: Are you old enough to remember the ski area in the 70s ? they may have been more buses but the two car parks were often full by 10 O clock, even earlier on some occasions. The number of visitors to the ski area today is much less than it used to be.
In reply to Doug: Yep, the carparks always got busy and lift ticket sales were foten suspended.
We just didn't have tw*ts in 4x4s having punchups!
We just didn't have tw*ts in 4x4s having punchups!
In reply to Doug:
That's what I mean, even in the 80s all the car parks would be full with buses and more people went. I actually have the total numbers of visitors at all five centres but this doesnt include non-skiing visitors who use the car parks etc.
That's what I mean, even in the 80s all the car parks would be full with buses and more people went. I actually have the total numbers of visitors at all five centres but this doesnt include non-skiing visitors who use the car parks etc.
In tend to visit Aviemore at Easter or Summer hols. It's always busy down town. With all the new housing surely parking is a continual problem ?
Nick
Nick
In reply to Scott_vzr:
Outwith weekends and public holidays or when the skiing is good Aviemore can be very quiet. A lot of the new houses are holiday homes. Some of the new estates can be like ghost towns.
Outwith weekends and public holidays or when the skiing is good Aviemore can be very quiet. A lot of the new houses are holiday homes. Some of the new estates can be like ghost towns.
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...