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Hi,
we are planning to go to Gogarth at Easter. Previously we have done DOWH and Wen slab and enjoyed them. We hope to do some routes in the HVS to e1 range on the Main cliff. with perhaps an E2 if we are going well and the conditions are good. I have been following the other Gogarth Thread but would be grateful for people's views on the main cliff routes.
we are planning to go to Gogarth at Easter. Previously we have done DOWH and Wen slab and enjoyed them. We hope to do some routes in the HVS to e1 range on the Main cliff. with perhaps an E2 if we are going well and the conditions are good. I have been following the other Gogarth Thread but would be grateful for people's views on the main cliff routes.
In reply to nigel pearson:
Resolution Direct (E2) is a stunning route, just make sure you spot your footholds on the crux!
Gogarth (E1) is great and has a real sense of history about it.
Scavenger (HVS) is so good I dare say you will shed tears of joy when you reach the top groove!
For camping I'd recommend that you go and stay at Outdoor Alternative in Rhoscolyn. A lovely little secluded campsite run by outdoor folk. You can hire sit on top kayaks from here too.
Resolution Direct (E2) is a stunning route, just make sure you spot your footholds on the crux!
Gogarth (E1) is great and has a real sense of history about it.
Scavenger (HVS) is so good I dare say you will shed tears of joy when you reach the top groove!
For camping I'd recommend that you go and stay at Outdoor Alternative in Rhoscolyn. A lovely little secluded campsite run by outdoor folk. You can hire sit on top kayaks from here too.
In reply to Simon Panton nr: Also Emulator is just about on the main cliff and a superb climb, if lacking the atmosphere of the other routes mentioned.
In reply to nigel pearson:
Another vote for Scavenger, a fantastic route. Pentathol is not too bad either. If you're prepared to go back to wen zawn, do concrete chimney, it's better than DOWH imho.
Another vote for Scavenger, a fantastic route. Pentathol is not too bad either. If you're prepared to go back to wen zawn, do concrete chimney, it's better than DOWH imho.
In reply to nigel pearson:
If you've done well on a main cliff, and your belayer will let you, head to the top tier for The Strand - one of the best E2 I've done.
If you end up back at Wen Slab, do Concrete Chimney - better than DOWH or Wen IMO. Not done Quartz Icicle (sp) but that looks ace too.
If you've done well on a main cliff, and your belayer will let you, head to the top tier for The Strand - one of the best E2 I've done.
If you end up back at Wen Slab, do Concrete Chimney - better than DOWH or Wen IMO. Not done Quartz Icicle (sp) but that looks ace too.
In reply to Owen W-G: A good introduction to the main cliff is Cordon Bleu - not fantastic climbing, but a multi pitch traverse that takes you through some impressive territory.
In reply to Owen W-G:
Quartz Icicle is similar to Concrete Chimney, but not as good IMO. They certainly don't feel 2 grades apart either !
Quartz Icicle is similar to Concrete Chimney, but not as good IMO. They certainly don't feel 2 grades apart either !
In reply to GrahamD: QI is still great, athough CC is 'the' route of the slab imo. Agree about the grades - I wanted to upgrade CC to E1, but was out voted by other guide researchers.
In reply to John2:
The girdle traverse (I think its called that although not 100%) is excellent too - where Cordon Bleu goes up you abseil down Mammoth for a bit and then traverse across Big Groove and down a bit, then follow a few pitches of Pentathol to the top. Grand day out.....
AJM
The girdle traverse (I think its called that although not 100%) is excellent too - where Cordon Bleu goes up you abseil down Mammoth for a bit and then traverse across Big Groove and down a bit, then follow a few pitches of Pentathol to the top. Grand day out.....
AJM
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
Easy to get lost on CC - we ended up climbing something that felt E1. I'm assured that it's HVS for the competent route finder....or someone with the right topo, unlike the one in our guidebook.
Emulator, as voted above - one of my favourite climbs. Superb protection, sustained climbing and the crux right at the very top, with a bomber wire. Also worth a look and not done much are the easier routes towards Easter Island. I remember Big Gut and Tapeworm as being much better than they sound at about VS-HVS. Scavenger, I thought was only OK.
A different part of the cliff, but I have to put in my usual exhortation to try Green Crack, a Joe Brown classic three star VS near Smurf Zawn. Quite the adventure - and the only other three star VS on Gogarth (I think) is Green Slab, which is a bit of a horror fest. Don't fall off the 1st pitch of GC though - I suspect they'd have a job retrieving you later, from ten feet underwater, wedged tight in a narrowing chimney.....
Easy to get lost on CC - we ended up climbing something that felt E1. I'm assured that it's HVS for the competent route finder....or someone with the right topo, unlike the one in our guidebook.
Emulator, as voted above - one of my favourite climbs. Superb protection, sustained climbing and the crux right at the very top, with a bomber wire. Also worth a look and not done much are the easier routes towards Easter Island. I remember Big Gut and Tapeworm as being much better than they sound at about VS-HVS. Scavenger, I thought was only OK.
A different part of the cliff, but I have to put in my usual exhortation to try Green Crack, a Joe Brown classic three star VS near Smurf Zawn. Quite the adventure - and the only other three star VS on Gogarth (I think) is Green Slab, which is a bit of a horror fest. Don't fall off the 1st pitch of GC though - I suspect they'd have a job retrieving you later, from ten feet underwater, wedged tight in a narrowing chimney.....
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
If you upgraded CC though, you'd have to upgrade loads of other stuff like Scavenger Direct, which is just as hard and committing or Central Park, which is considerably harder and scarier on the first pitch and just considerably hard on the second (but definitely top end HVS, not E1). Definitely the hardest of the 3 classics in that zawn though.
QI is great but unfortunately overshadowed by its neighbours - CC and Dream are outstanding, QI is merely very good.
If you upgraded CC though, you'd have to upgrade loads of other stuff like Scavenger Direct, which is just as hard and committing or Central Park, which is considerably harder and scarier on the first pitch and just considerably hard on the second (but definitely top end HVS, not E1). Definitely the hardest of the 3 classics in that zawn though.
QI is great but unfortunately overshadowed by its neighbours - CC and Dream are outstanding, QI is merely very good.
In reply to GrahamD: I was wondering about trying quartz icicle, does it get E2 for boldness or difficulty?
In reply to Simon Panton nr: Thanks for the suggestions, I will try the campsite
In reply to nigel pearson:
To be honest, I'm not sure - it never felt unduly technical or run out to me. I've done tougher E1s
To be honest, I'm not sure - it never felt unduly technical or run out to me. I've done tougher E1s
In reply to nigel pearson:
It's a bit run out at the start of the first pitch and is also quite sustained and keeps you on your toes all the way to the belay. The second pitch, whilst easier, also has its moments. Low end E2 but it'd be a bit much to give it E1, especially when the situation is taken into account.
It's a bit run out at the start of the first pitch and is also quite sustained and keeps you on your toes all the way to the belay. The second pitch, whilst easier, also has its moments. Low end E2 but it'd be a bit much to give it E1, especially when the situation is taken into account.
In reply to nigel pearson:
If you do emulator you can combine it with Sunstroke above for another 2 really good pitches, take care traversing the grass over to the start of it though. As already said above, definitely do Gogarth and the Strand is very good as well.
If you do emulator you can combine it with Sunstroke above for another 2 really good pitches, take care traversing the grass over to the start of it though. As already said above, definitely do Gogarth and the Strand is very good as well.
In reply to nigel pearson:
I should add, it gets you into some brilliant territory and is well worth doing.
I should add, it gets you into some brilliant territory and is well worth doing.
In reply to nigel pearson: i have only done Gogarth on the Main Cliff and, unlike what seems like most others, i cant recommend it: meandering, unbalanced, broken and only 1 move on the whole thing.
if however you can turn your attention away from the Main Cliff then try these:
UPPER TIER
Emulator E1 - brilliant and not easy
The Strand E2 - soft and a total classic
HOLYHEAD
Breaking the Barrier E1 - beautiful and steady
Bran Flake E2 - well protected and meaty
King Bee Crack HVS - total classic
WEN ZAWN
Britomartis HVS - how good is this, what a position!
enjoy!
if however you can turn your attention away from the Main Cliff then try these:
UPPER TIER
Emulator E1 - brilliant and not easy
The Strand E2 - soft and a total classic
HOLYHEAD
Breaking the Barrier E1 - beautiful and steady
Bran Flake E2 - well protected and meaty
King Bee Crack HVS - total classic
WEN ZAWN
Britomartis HVS - how good is this, what a position!
enjoy!
In reply to nigel pearson:
I'd second Pantster's recomedations they are all very good.
You can get to the Gogarth pitch 2 belay quicker and more directly by doing Trunk Line 1st pitch (essentially most of Resolution Direct P1). Lovely pitch and less weaving about.
On the Main cliff avoid Pentathol - its crap and has a worrying 2nd or 3rd pitch.
Consider Easter Island if the tides are right. Hombre (E1) and Phagocyte (HVS) are grand.
I'd second Pantster's recomedations they are all very good.
You can get to the Gogarth pitch 2 belay quicker and more directly by doing Trunk Line 1st pitch (essentially most of Resolution Direct P1). Lovely pitch and less weaving about.
On the Main cliff avoid Pentathol - its crap and has a worrying 2nd or 3rd pitch.
Consider Easter Island if the tides are right. Hombre (E1) and Phagocyte (HVS) are grand.
In reply to nigel pearson:
Not done much at Gogarth, but I put in another vote for Emulator. I tried to lead it as my 3rd E1, but failed, seconded it instead.
Not done much at Gogarth, but I put in another vote for Emulator. I tried to lead it as my 3rd E1, but failed, seconded it instead.
In reply to Rich Kirby:
Easter Island is atmospheric right enough - the approach is harder (or at least scarier) than the routes !
Easter Island is atmospheric right enough - the approach is harder (or at least scarier) than the routes !
In reply to Rich Kirby:
In what way worrying?
I can feel my intrigue-o-meter rising...
> (In reply to nigel pearson)
>
> On the Main cliff avoid Pentathol - its crap and has a worrying 2nd or 3rd pitch.
>
> On the Main cliff avoid Pentathol - its crap and has a worrying 2nd or 3rd pitch.
In what way worrying?
I can feel my intrigue-o-meter rising...
In reply to Calder:
The last pitches on most main cliff routes do have some loose rock- you kinda expect this and they are fine as long as your careful. However, Pentathol has some big, loose flakes lower down (P2 or 3) which, in my mind were quite dangerous. Irrespective of this it just ain't a very good route after the 1st pitch or so. Other suggestions are far better.
> (In reply to Rich Kirby)
> [...]
>
> In what way worrying?
>
> I can feel my intrigue-o-meter rising...
> [...]
>
> In what way worrying?
>
> I can feel my intrigue-o-meter rising...
The last pitches on most main cliff routes do have some loose rock- you kinda expect this and they are fine as long as your careful. However, Pentathol has some big, loose flakes lower down (P2 or 3) which, in my mind were quite dangerous. Irrespective of this it just ain't a very good route after the 1st pitch or so. Other suggestions are far better.
In reply to Matt Vigg:
When we did Emulator we combined it with Bezel (VS 5a) on the upper tier
> (In reply to nigel pearson)
>
> If you do emulator you can combine it with Sunstroke above for another 2 really good pitches, take care traversing the grass over to the start of it though. As already said above, definitely do Gogarth and the Strand is very good as well.
>
> If you do emulator you can combine it with Sunstroke above for another 2 really good pitches, take care traversing the grass over to the start of it though. As already said above, definitely do Gogarth and the Strand is very good as well.
When we did Emulator we combined it with Bezel (VS 5a) on the upper tier
In reply to Rich Kirby: I thought Pentathol was fine, if a touch undergraded. We reckoned 3 of the pitches deserved a higher technical grade.
In reply to John2: Which guide are you quoting from, presumably the 1990 CC one? We upgraded the tech grades for pitches 2 and 3 in the new Gogarth North guide from 4b to 4c and 4c to 5b respectively. That polished bulge at the top of pitch 3 is hard - must have shocked a few unsuspecting folk over the years, although if you can cope with the steep section on pitch 1 you are unlikely to come unstuck.
Rich - I did this again the other day as an escape from an incoming tide and thought it was worth 2 stars - a good route with some memorable climbing didn't notice anything too worrying on the loose rock front.
Rich - I did this again the other day as an escape from an incoming tide and thought it was worth 2 stars - a good route with some memorable climbing didn't notice anything too worrying on the loose rock front.
In reply to Simon Panton nr: Ah, thanks for that. I was indeed a little taken aback by the '4C' bulge. Quite a characterful route on the whole, I thought.
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
I've had it with you of late...there's always bloody something
Ah, must have been a "fear" , vivid imagination day. Its a rarity doing a sea cliff HVS - clearly lost touch.
Anyway, on other Gogarth musings we did Trunk Line last Thursday which was mega. Reversing the Alien chimney and traversing to the Dinosaur belay is interesting.
There's a trick to protect that pitch! If you haven't done it its a great afternoon out for when the tides are poor and cliff quiet.
At the weekend we did Sex Lobster in Eastern Island. Very good, although I was a little concerned with the gear as you leave the slab and pull round the upper arete into the "fine hairy crack".
Was it checked?? The middle section felt particularly bold.
....of course, it's entirely plausable the incoming tide, early season nerves & fading light may well have added to the experience.
Also Neutrino, round the corner from E. Island. E4 6a/b!!! I thought E2 at the time but it was in the 90's?
The guide generally is great in use.
>
> Rich - I did this again the other day as an escape from an incoming tide and thought it was worth 2 stars - a good route with some memorable climbing didn't notice anything too worrying on the loose rock front.
> Rich - I did this again the other day as an escape from an incoming tide and thought it was worth 2 stars - a good route with some memorable climbing didn't notice anything too worrying on the loose rock front.
I've had it with you of late...there's always bloody something
Ah, must have been a "fear" , vivid imagination day. Its a rarity doing a sea cliff HVS - clearly lost touch.
Anyway, on other Gogarth musings we did Trunk Line last Thursday which was mega. Reversing the Alien chimney and traversing to the Dinosaur belay is interesting.
There's a trick to protect that pitch! If you haven't done it its a great afternoon out for when the tides are poor and cliff quiet.
At the weekend we did Sex Lobster in Eastern Island. Very good, although I was a little concerned with the gear as you leave the slab and pull round the upper arete into the "fine hairy crack".
Was it checked?? The middle section felt particularly bold.
....of course, it's entirely plausable the incoming tide, early season nerves & fading light may well have added to the experience.
Also Neutrino, round the corner from E. Island. E4 6a/b!!! I thought E2 at the time but it was in the 90's?
The guide generally is great in use.
In reply to Rich Kirby: I've always found that Gogarth routes have a habit of upsetting any notion of an easy ride. Many is the time that I've found myself disturbed by the most unassuming routes, even when I've been really fit/climbing well. It's just one of those places that bites you in the arse if you drop your guard!
I haven't done Trunk Line, but it was discussed as a possible target the other night. What was the protection trick?
Streaky checked everything in Easter Island Gully - I've got a photograph of him on Sex Lobster so I know he did it before he handed in the new description. He raved about how good it was.
Neutrino was just plain ridiculous at E1 5b in the old guide. The crux is hard and if you fall off you will defintely hurt yourself. Maybe E4 is slightly over stating the case, but I wanted to warn people.
I haven't done Trunk Line, but it was discussed as a possible target the other night. What was the protection trick?
Streaky checked everything in Easter Island Gully - I've got a photograph of him on Sex Lobster so I know he did it before he handed in the new description. He raved about how good it was.
Neutrino was just plain ridiculous at E1 5b in the old guide. The crux is hard and if you fall off you will defintely hurt yourself. Maybe E4 is slightly over stating the case, but I wanted to warn people.
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
Main Cliff traverse guru Mr Parkin dished the knowledge on Trunk Line - from Rat Race belay descend the Alien chimney with a sling on Positron's spike. Clip all other runners into your other rope. Your then protected for the traverse into Dinosaur belay and your second has a rope above them. Once he's arrived at belay its easy to flick it off to retrieve. Cool eh! We thought the whole route to be E4 and without the sling it would feel hairy as there's no gear until the end of the traverse.
Spoke to Craig yesterday praising Sex Lobster - typically couldn't remember it
Main Cliff traverse guru Mr Parkin dished the knowledge on Trunk Line - from Rat Race belay descend the Alien chimney with a sling on Positron's spike. Clip all other runners into your other rope. Your then protected for the traverse into Dinosaur belay and your second has a rope above them. Once he's arrived at belay its easy to flick it off to retrieve. Cool eh! We thought the whole route to be E4 and without the sling it would feel hairy as there's no gear until the end of the traverse.
Spoke to Craig yesterday praising Sex Lobster - typically couldn't remember it
In reply to Rich Kirby: How long did it take you to do Trunk Line? Just musing on the practicalities of doing the Trunk Line - Horizon link. 20 odd pitches, 500m of climbing!!! A crazy trip for sure!
In reply to Simon Panton nr:
Hey Si, yeh that crossed my mind afterwards as it didn't take as long as we thought. We ragged the first 3 pitches thinking it would take a while then slowed down as it became apparent it wasn't going to take that long. Bar the first and last pitch the others are 20m max, some 15m. Left sacs around 1.30......back at sacs for 7.15 but that includes walk down and back. so I guess 4 - 4.5 hours on route.....taking it steady. We weren't that sure of the bulge bit in the description for P5. You could feasibly end up on the ordinary route traverse pitch if you went too high. Basically follow the diagonal cracks up left then at the bulge traverse left ( rather than climbing over it) using some overlaps/layaways which drop you onto a big flake just below the hard bit on Citadel top crack. Hope that helps.
Hey Si, yeh that crossed my mind afterwards as it didn't take as long as we thought. We ragged the first 3 pitches thinking it would take a while then slowed down as it became apparent it wasn't going to take that long. Bar the first and last pitch the others are 20m max, some 15m. Left sacs around 1.30......back at sacs for 7.15 but that includes walk down and back. so I guess 4 - 4.5 hours on route.....taking it steady. We weren't that sure of the bulge bit in the description for P5. You could feasibly end up on the ordinary route traverse pitch if you went too high. Basically follow the diagonal cracks up left then at the bulge traverse left ( rather than climbing over it) using some overlaps/layaways which drop you onto a big flake just below the hard bit on Citadel top crack. Hope that helps.
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