UKC

Very quickly too:

http://nalle-hukkataival.blogspot.com/

3rd try second day just before a snowstorm set in....not bad going.

In reply to Morgan Woods:

I thought she died a few months ago?

In reply to Morgan Woods:

Stupendous effort. Jade is one of those rare problems which looks every bit as nasty and hard as it probably is.

(it's on the niggler's tick list right after climbing K2 solo in boxing gloves and rollerblades)

In reply to Morgan Woods: Amazing

In reply to Morgan Woods: i think im getting even more negative / cynical: when i watched Dosage V all i could think was (apart from the fact that there was way too much US blokes pulling on US boulders) these problems are not at the grade given and that these boys would get whipped in north Wales. maybe im way off the mark (i guess Mr Graham knows a thing or two about grades) but that was certainly what i thought when the dust settled. this only seems to support that idea...

I wonder how Nalle would fare on the Pill Box Problem of John Gaskins, a probably undergraded Font 8a+/8b that is regarded as probably being 8c in reality and the hardest problem in Wales? Interesting to speculate how this compares to the difficulty of Jade.

In reply to ksjs: I think you should consider yourself way off the mark.

So far Jade has only seen ascents by four of the best boulderers in the world at the moment (Woods, Robinson, Landman and Nalle) all of whom have travelled to world class bouldering destinations around the world (not to North Wales funnily) and proved themselves on the hardest problems.

This is without considering the fact that Boulder and CO in general is home to the highest concentration of strong boulderers worldwide, so if it was soft it would have been ticked and downgraded by now.

In reply to TimS: my comments were slightly tongue in cheek and i do appreciate that North Wales bouldering isnt the centre of the universe but there did seem to be too much hard stuff apparently being done too easily / quickly. maybe though all the problems were bang on the money for their grade and theyre all just strong blokes... by the way, if my sources are correct, Tyler has bouldered at Pantymwyn (even lower in the pecking order than North Wales...)

In reply to ksjs: Nalle is just mutantly strong and talented. Probably best he stays away from everyone's backyards so they can keeps some mystique going about how really hard their hard problems might actually be.

Amusingly "Nalle" means teddy bear in Finnish. But Mr Hukkataival seems to be anything but.

In reply to TobyA:

i think i saw some pics of him playing on some 8's at Buoux so obviously handy on a rope as well.

In reply to ksjs: it wasn't the N Wales comments that made me post on UKC (I spend a lot of time driving across the pennines to climb in the cave and the pass), but the idea that these problems are soft in the face of what the ascentionists have achieved in Hueco, Bishop, Switzerland, South Africa and Font. These guys are simply the next level in bouldering.

In reply to ksjs:

I think it's worth taking into account the editing that goes into the videos.
Many of the hard problems are sent over days/weeks/months but edited down to 2 attempts and the "send"...

In the case of the Gaskins Pill Box Problem, I would say that there is not so much mystique surrounding it as a blatantly desparate problem that even the world's best would be severely taxed by.

Tyler apparenly took one look at it and instantly pronounced it 8c without even pulling on due to the sick crimps on it. This is why some ppl say the RMNP 8c's are soft as they actually have holds!

Gaskins should not be marginalised for leaving testpieces in the most unlikely locations. Surely it is up to the 2nd ascentionists to make the effort to travel and try these things. For example Ondra went up to the Endstal and did Huber's Om 9a recently at this remote mountain crag. This 'backyard' route actually turned out to be one of the most difficult in the world, even 17 years after its first ascent!

In reply to teddy: Ted I think the Pill Box problem suffers in much the same way as Gaskins' other testpieces: obviously very hard, but not very inspiring. You only have to compare it to the other 8C's (The Island, Amandla, Satan I Helvete, Jade, Terremer) to see why people aren't travelling to repeat it. You can't really compare this to Om, which looks like an inspiring route in a beautiful setting. Oh and Jade isn't exactly 'back yard' either

In reply to TimS:

Yes you're right that most of Gaskin's problems would get probably only get 1 star at most in terms of quality. That is not in dispute. In bouldering however, difficulty is often in itself very important not taking into account other asthetics. I agree with your reasons why ppl are not travelling to repeat these problems. However the problems still exist and are still hard, irrespective of whether ppl come to do them or not or whether they have 1 or 5 stars. Hence, they cannot be dismissed as irrelevant. Also, Gaskins's Shadowplay in the Lakes is meant to be top quality as well as extremely hard.

Re your comment on Om, the asthetics of a backyard location in my view should not be taken into account in deciding whether it should be considered one or not. The Pill Box Wall is very esoteric and as a result is often considered backyard. The Endstal is very remote and is also often considered backyard. The quality of the Endstal is not the reason why it is a backyard - it is simply the difficulty of approach. Therefore, I stand by my comparison of the Pill Box Problem to Om as they are both in backyard locations, except for different reasons. The effect on visiting climbers is the same - they are off from coming!

Last sentence correction: should be "...put off from coming."

In reply to teddy:

Perhaps they prefer dry rock?

In reply to Yorkspud:

Pill Box is dry in all but the most foul of weather conditions.

In reply to teddy:

...unlike your pad.

In reply to Serpico:

Ahem, yes the hazards of bouldering on the box in extremes of weather cannot be overstated! Thank god for beachcombing! :0)

In reply to teddy:

Aren't we discussing a route in the Rockies climbed by a Finn? In that light, this seems a rather odd accusation.

In reply to teddy: I don't think anyone is dismissing Gaskins' problems as irrelevant Ted, I was just saying why I thought it was unlikely that these problems will be repeated by globetrotting superstars.

I think these days if hard problems aren't aesthetically pleasing they are much less likely to get repeated due to the amazing choice of bouldering around the world.

In reply to TobyA:

yeah UKB is the place for Gaskins worship.

In reply to TobyA:

It ain't an accusation, its an observation.

I think eventually hard things get repeated, wherever they are. Look at Trice, a V12 from the 70's. It took 30 years for a second ascent and then 5 came along in the space of months. The Pill box prob will be done soon by somebody and then we will know if its 8c once and for all!

Great discussion, props to all ppl commenting.

In reply to Morgan Woods: Speaking of Ondra, I was sad to see that he didn't have a crack at the Wheel of Life when he was out here for the WYC's last year. Not enough time to spare apparently but would've been good to see if he could crush that quickly.