UKC

Has anyone done a trek taking an ice axe and ONE trekking pole instead of an axe and two poles or just two poles?

In reply to mypyrex: Perfectly feasible, as long as you don't intend using a pole and axe at the same time. Can't think of any condition where it would be appropriate to use both together. But my poles are carbon fibre and therefore very light. I'd leave other stuff behind rather than one of my poles.

In reply to imkevinmc:

Funny that. I know of at least 6 mountain guides i've met who use both together.

In reply to mypyrex:

I always find that if I only take one pole to save weight when carrying an ice axe that I stoop to one side and that seems to do me old creaky knees and hips more harm than good. I now always take two poles plus ice axe

In reply to mypyrex:

I've done it on a few occasions, but I didn't really like it as the different lenghts and grips put me off my stride on the flat. It worked fairly well when stumbling around on windy tops where the gusts put me off my stride anyway.
It also makes changing hands on moderate ground (so as to have the ice axe in the uphill hand) a bit faffier.
One thing to think about is that if you do slip and have to arrest you will probably lose the walking pole, as you have both hands on the axe. You could use a wrist strap on the pole, but if the spike gets stuck in the snow when trying to arrest it could end badly, so I wouldn't.
On steep ground you obviously just put the pole away.

Mostly now I just carry two nice light pacerpoles, and an axe, and swap back and forth as necessary.

In reply to Jack B:
That's what I'm going to do now except that my poles are heavier aluminium

In reply to mypyrex:

If all you need the axe for is to self arrest and use the pick to help on odd sections on steep terrain this worked for me very well:

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article/mps/uan/3635

I put one on one of my walking poles last winter and used it for all the winter walks I did in Scotland (with a normal pole on the other hand), including some grade 1 soloing. Had carried a proper axe in the beginning then I realised the Condor did everything I need a walking axe for. Black Diamond makes a similar ski pole with pick but the pick is not retrievable. They are both designed for ski touring not rated for climbing but I found them work fine as an axe when shortened. Petzl makes an axe with bottom pole sections which you can extend but I reckon the shape and weight might be a bit odd for long distance walks.

In reply to mypyrex:

You say trekking, so maybe I'm wrongly assuming ropes... but anyway, I nearly always use one pole and an axe - it means I only need three hands instead of four. Two poles, one axe and rope coils = four hands...

For the person who mentioned self arrest difficulties with poles - if you used poles you wouldn't fall over!

In reply to tipsy:
a Colleuge have just come back from a guided trip up Mount Rainier, and they all used 1 axe and 1 walking pole at the same time.

In reply to mypyrex: I often go for one pole and an axe. If you seek them out you can also buy a pole with a pick on the end. Looks like they'd make a grand weapon.

In reply to mypyrex:

I do this all the time as well. Pole on downslope , axe on upslope.

In reply to mypyrex:

i take both but use either the axe *or* the poles according to the nature of the terrain... never occurred to me to try mixing and matching but i'd imagine it would take a bit of a knack. maybe try it when the scottish winter returns, just out of interest...

y - Jim Fraser on - 00:04 Mon
In reply to mypyrex:

About 10 years ago Komperdell used to publish a figure of 21% for the energy saved by the correct use of 2 poles. (I believe that they have now increased that figure.) Energy savings from using a single pole are small.

On the basis of such a substantial figure, it is not diffiult to make a case for taking a pair of poles.

There are 2 aspects to the case for taking the ice axe. One is the usual case for the single ice axe as a safety device on steep frozen ground. The other is that the grasping of the poles with an appropriate force, especially with hand-loops, reduces circulation in the hands. I have met a guy who was left with not a single finger undamaged by frostbite: he was the only pole user and the only frostbite sufferer on the expedition. In extreme conditions the axe may seem more bother and use more energy but it is a more reliable safety device and even the business of changing hands and changing grip keeps those fingers alive.

In reply to Jim Fraser:

Using a pole(s) is more than about energy saving, though this in itself is enough reason to use them. It's also about stability, especially in soft snow. If I could use two, I would, but having to cope with rope and occasionally axe as well often rules this out. One pole is 100% better than none. As regards the wrist loops, I cut them off. Most of the time I like to move my hand around on the pole. Likewise with the axe, no leash. Therefore no (less) faffing on zig zags. Jims point about cold hands - imagine traversing a very long slope with hands in loops - one hand will be higher than the other for a long time. This hand will get cold. By holding that pole lower down, it won't.

The reasons for taking an axe or numerous, but in my case I always take one for cutting the odd step, belaying, climbing bergschrunds etc. The type of axe depends on the conditions as much as the terrain and varies from an Air Tech to a good old fashioned step cutter at the end of the season. This may of course be digressing form mypyrex's op.

To the no-pole-at-any-price-I'm-not-that-old-yet brigade... I love to watch people stumbling across perfectly flat soft wet snow with a 60cm axe uselessly swinging by their side...

In reply to jon:

Yes.

But think about how closely energy and stability are linked.

In reply to Jim Fraser:

I'm agreeing with you...

In reply to mypyrex:

I usually *take* 2 poles and an axe, because I revert to 2 poles once away from axe territory, especially in descent. I have a dodgy ankle and now, sometimes, in addition, a dodgy heel, so need all the support I can get.

Just back from the Alps and on the route we did Friday (Aiguille de Tour from Albert Premier refuge) used an axe only on the ascent to the bergschrund, but an axe plus one pole on the descent. The pole gave me that extra bit of balance/ control and took a bit of the load off my ankle. Then on the descent from the hut to Le Tour I used both poles.

When using an axe/ pole combo, I don't use the leashes on either (don't now usually use the leash on my walking axe anyway) so changing sides isn't an issue.

I've also practiced arresting when carrying both, because the instinct is to hang onto both if you fall, which seriously impacts the ability to do an axe arrest. I now have it down to second nature that if I do slip "properly" when carrying a combo, I'll drop the pole and conentrate on using the axe to arrest.

In reply to Rob Naylor:

When guiding the Haute Route (summer) I'll take one normal trekking pole and one of these:
http://www.raidlight.com/boutique/stpi/178-byatons-trail-pole-pliables-110c...
This goes in my sac when not needed. They are quite sturdy, but nowhere near as strong as a regular pole.

With the basket removed it doubles as an excellent cheating stick on sport routes...

Every I know seems to dislike leashes on poles and axes but I like them. I normally have the loops loose enough so that I can slip in and out with one hand but not too loose that it will come out on its own. I like being able to just let the axe/pole hanging on my wrist while puling up odd steps with my hands. Besides I found the leashes save energy on long walks as I can relax my fingers while letting my lower palm to take the weight.
If the terrain becomes too steep and I might trip over the poles in a fall I'll either put them away or get off the leashes. However often in routes involving some scrambling I'll just shorten them and let them hang on my wrist as if they were massive bracelets. In winter a shorten pole with a pick head works well for daggering and self-arrest and I prefer to keep the leash on as well.

In reply to jon:

Yeah, saw some people with these. Sort of like a corded tent pole with a handle at one end and a spike at the other. Neat, but as you say they can't be as strong as normal poles.

In reply to jamestheyip:

I use the leashes on poles when walking normally with a pair of them. Yes, they do save energy on long walks

I just don't use the leash when I'm using a pole/ axe combination because in addition to making changing sides more difficult as you zig-zag, a leashed pole would get in the way if you're trying to do an axe arrest. Carried leashless you just drop the pole and concentrate on using the axe properly.

I tend to use leashes with technical axes but now rarely if ever with my walking axe

In reply to Rob Naylor:

That's the one. They're designed for long trail running events where the use of poles isn't banned, so they're incredibly light. The main advantage is the size they collapse to - I stuffed one inside my jacket once when I needed to use an axe. They are a good compromise though. Also good for long rock routes where there's a long approach and you walk off the top, as they go inside the smallest of sacs.