UKC

Hey, was wondering if anyone would give me some advice on the best product to buy, looking for protection below a number one wire/nut? IMP'S/RP'S or DMM peanuts/mirco wallnuts?

cheers.

In reply to chester1993: Only used the peenuts but they are great for flared cracks, especially in limestone. On grit or granite something more conventionally shaped might be more useful.

In reply to chester1993:

You can't buy RP's in this country, the micro wallnuts aren't great, not very strong for their size. The IMPs have soldered wires, which make them stronger. Also worth a look are the BD Micro Stoppers, which are a lovely shape. I've got the BD ones and just ordered some IMPs to compliment them, will report back when I've used them.

In reply to Duncan_S:

And I've got the BD micros and DMM/HB brass offsets, which really do complement (not compliment!) each other well.

In reply to petestack:

That might be next. I don't have the full range of BD micro, but find the size 5 and 6 really usefully, so thought doubling up in the larger ones could be a good idea.

In reply to Duncan_S:

While I've got the full sets, I've not been carrying the 1 & 2 swedges or 0 & 1 brass offsets. But find the larger ones (especially the offsets now I've got them) pretty well indispensable.

In reply to petestack:

I haven't bought the small ones in either range...I don't climb hard enough. My mates ordered the HB ones though, so it will be interesting to play with all 3 side by side.

In reply to chester1993:
ive just bought the new imps and am really impressed.size 3 is just a little smaller than a no1 wire but much narrower,they seem to sit really well and are so much stronger than the micro rocks,they are very similar to the black diamond swedges which are another option but the imps seem to be a bit softer and more useable

In reply to Duncan_S:

Duncan,

I should just clarify a couple of points which are becoming a bit of an urban myth.

Small soldered nuts are generally stronger than the equivalent size of swaged nut because you can get a wider diameter wire into the head of the nut, not because soldering creates a stronger join or because it removes a tight bend as the wire goes around the top of the nut. This advantage decreases as the head size increases.

Thus use a 2.00mm wire and you can get circa 4-5kN out of a nut, but if you can use a 2.5mm wire you can get 7 - 8kN.

This is where the IMPS/Brass Offsets/RP's win in sizes 1+ 2 - on an IMP/RP size 2 you can get a 2.00mm wire in a miniscule head and achieve 5kn. A swaged nut of the same size (Wallnut 0) has to use 1.5mm wire and the strength drops to 2+kN.

However jump up slightly in head size and you can get 2.00mm wire into a swaged head. The Wallnut 0.5 uses 2.00mm wire and is only very slightly wider than a IMP/RP 2 and is conservatively rated at 4kN. In a real world situation it is as/almost as strong as an IMP/RP 2

On IMPS/Brass Offsets/RP size 3 the advantage is further decreased because you can't get a 2.5mm wire into the base of the head, but on the Wallnut 0.75 the head is now big enough to take a 2.50mm wire when swaged and also has plenty of metal to stop it pulling through placements. Thus the Wallnut 0.75 (same width as a IMP/RP 3) going forward will use 2.50mm wire and be conservatively rated 6kN - stronger than an IMP/RP 3.

There is a table of micro nut strengths/dimensions at http://www.rockclimbingcompany.co.uk/Lead_Climb_Course_Snowdonia_North_Wale... in the Nuts and Slings section for fellow gear freaks.

It also needs to be remembered that the swaged micro nuts (i.e. DMM Micro Wallnuts) offer greater, surface contact which is an important consideration as a common mechanism for failure in real life is the nut pulling through the placement. Once again the devil is in the detail - using a tougher 7075 aluminium alloy nut as on the DMM Micro Wallnuts gives extra holding power compared to a softer 6000 series alloy.

Add to this the fact that standard steel wire as used on swaged nuts generally has a higher tensile strength than the stainless steel wire that must be used on soldered nuts.

On the other side of the coin IMPs/RPs and Brass Offsets will fit where the wider swaged alloy nuts won't go....

Each nut has its own strengths and weaknesses and the key thing is to understand them.

There is no perfect micro wire although an IMP/RP 2 comes pretty close; but a micro wire rack that includes IMP/RPs 2, 3 and 4, Brass Offsets 2, 3 and 4 plus Micro Wallnuts 0.5 and 0.75 is a really good starting point.

I hope that helps a bit

Simon

DMM

In reply to Simon Marsh:

Thanks for writing such a detailed reply, very interesting, sorry for giving out incorrect information about your products.

In reply to chester1993:


I've got mixed RPs and BD micros as well as a set of peanuts. I prefer the RPs to the BDs as they seem to seat nicer than the BD micros on which the more complex shape seems unnessecary (esp the offset on the sides that leaves a sharp edge so you you can't place them sideways).

If you want RPs though you might as well get the DMM version which seem very similar.

From using peanuts only the bottom 2 sizes can really be considered "micro" (they go up to about rock 4/5 size. Initially the peanuts don't seem as beautiful as the HB style ones but they do seem a bit more robust - especially when a second yanks them up/out to get them out of inward flares. I don't think you can loose out buying either the brasses or the peanuts but check out the actual sizes first as if you want really small stuff the brasses might go smaller.

In an ideal world I'd probably have lots of RPs/IMPs and brass offsets in the 1-3 size range for special occasions (e.g slate) and a set of peanuts for regular routes.

The way the peanuts and larger alloy ofsets run into each other is useful but I expect the brass offsets do the same.

In reply to Simon Marsh:

Wow Simon, thanks for the deatiled explanation!

In reply to chester1993: i got some RPs in oz earlier this year they are the dogs bollocks!! looks like the IMPs will be a good alternative and will be my first choice when i need replacements thos obv the dud from DMM is the guy to listen to!!!