/ NEWS: New DMM Dragon Cams - An In-depth Look

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UKC News - on 24 Aug 2009
[Dragon Cam 1, 3 kb]UKC Examine The New Camming Units From Llanberis:

The cams feature a twin axle design that was originally used on the well known and highly respected Black Diamond Camalots.

The cams are due to be released for sale next spring and UKClimbing.com will be visiting the DMM factory later this year to check out the next batch of samples hot off the hot-forger.



Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=48937
king_of_gibraltar - on 24 Aug 2009
In reply to UKC News:

Any idea on what their RRP will be?
In reply to king_of_gibraltar: Actually, that was a bit of an oversight on my part! Thanks for that, I'll try and find out right now and will post on here and edit the news item.

Cheers,

Jack
Mike Nolan - on 24 Aug 2009
In reply to UKC News: These looks very tasty!:)
beardy mike - on 24 Aug 2009
In reply to UKC News: It looks as though the sizes got to about the same as a camalot 0.5. Are there any plans to complete the range, and if not what are they planning for the bottom end of the range - I'm guessing they have something up their sleeve - they always do...
In reply to king_of_gibraltar: Hi King,

The RRP is 50 except the biggest at 60.

Cheers,

Jack
king_of_gibraltar - on 24 Aug 2009
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

Ooooo! Fairly pricey, though i guess that they must be expensive to make.

Thanks Jack.
pottsworth - on 24 Aug 2009
In reply to UKC News:
Is it just me, or do the lobes look rather narrow / thin?
I guess the bottom end of the range would be filled pretty well by 3cus, as they're a lot narrower in the smaller sizes
Chi Cheng - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to pottsworth:

"Is it just me, or do the lobes look rather narrow / thin?"

I been told the contact edge is the same width as the one on the camalots but by using I-beam tech and hot forging they save weight and keep strength.

Hope this helps.

Morgan Woods - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to UKC News:

do these cams actually contain dragon?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6159630.stm
Frank4short - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to UKC News: They sound great but is it just me that thinks that this is perhaps a bit premature considering it says they're due to go on sale next Spring?
steve456 on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to UKC News: Is it an unfortunate coincidence that you've missed out a couple of cams in the their range and left the photo with the exactly the same colours as BD or have they just copied on purpose?
Jonas Wiklund - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to steve456: To not have the same colours and sizes as Camalots would be a monumental mistake. I will never consider buying dragons if they use different colour-coding than Camalots.
steve456 on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to Jonas Wiklund: Just re-read the article and looked up the needlesports tables and looks like that, whilst the size numbers are totally different, these are identically coloured, identically sized 3D-lobed camalot updates. BD won't be happy.
snoop6060 - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:

50! Doesnt that make them one of the the most expensive cams on the market?

Sod that - I'll stick with Camelots. You can get them alot cheaper.
LG - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to UKC News: Any info on the weights?

It has always confused me why people go for the double axle design - with the Camelots you get more range, but roughly the same % weight penalty. This means that to cover a range you end up wiht the same weight, but fewer cams.

I'd rather have more cams even at the cost of some reduction in range - I really don't notice a 15%-20% difference in camming range, and much prefer having an extra cam on my harness for no weight penalty.
rusty_nails - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to Jack Geldard - Editor - UKC:
> (In reply to king_of_gibraltar) Hi King,
>
> The RRP is 50 except the biggest at 60.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jack

OUCH!!!!

that's not going to win them much support from the tight wad british climbers.

I was hoping for them to undercut the industry standard that is the camalot.

You have to understand that camalots have a great reputation as the best cams, and are priced accordingly. These new cams may look great but have no reputation built up yet. Surely DMM should be trying to undercut their main rivals as to gain a foothold in the market.

If not, they've missed a trick!
t_stork - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to UKC News: 50 is the RRP for Camolots, but you can get them cheaper online. So really there no more expensive than the true cost of BD cams. Deals will probably come out soon after they are realized.
Michael Ryan - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to t_stork:
> (In reply to UKC News) 50 is the RRP for Camolots, but you can get them cheaper online. So really there no more expensive than the true cost of BD cams. Deals will probably come out soon after they are realized.

Thanks Stork, was just about to point this out.

Everything has a (manufacturer's) suggested retail price ((M)SRP), list price or recommended retail price (RRP).

What they actually get sold for is often something quite different.

pauldr - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to UKC News: good god a set of these would cost more than my entire rack
ads.ukclimbing.com
muppetfilter - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to rusty_nails: Funny thing is when you go to the us that you realise how much cheaper DMM stuff is over there at least half price if not more. And not forgetting the OCUN stuff helmets and harnesses.So really we pay for the label in the UK anyway.
rusty_nails - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to t_stork:
> (In reply to UKC News) 50 is the RRP for Camolots, but you can get them cheaper online. So really there no more expensive than the true cost of BD cams. Deals will probably come out soon after they are realized.

Where can you get camalots much cheaper than 50?

The cheapest i have ever seen was 37.50 for a big size 5 (end of season sale!)

Any other low prices i have seen is around 45
Michael Ryan - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to muppetfilter:
> (In reply to rusty_nails) Funny thing is when you go to the us that you realise how much cheaper DMM stuff is over there at least half price if not more.

Evidence, links?

muppetfilter - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: www.gearx.com in Burlington VT
remus - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to muppetfilter: Im not seeing any huge discrepancies in pricing...
muppetfilter - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to remtherockclimber: Not looking hard enough then. :)
remus - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to muppetfilter: so far ive found 1 item at 45% discount, 5 at a 25% discount, 1 at a 15% discount and 2 at a 10% discount. 9 items total averaging 22% cheaper.

Not quite 'half price and cheaper' and over a decidedly small range of products.
kendogcatchy - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I think this discussion was done to death in a previous thread, with Simon from DMM posting. I think the crux of it was volume of sales.

personally speaking I try and buy british gear where possible as I think its important to support british jobs (especially manufacturing!) an dgood british innovation.

I've had my cams for 3 or 4 years now and don't need to replace any time soon, so I think that an extra 10 per cam (for example) over that time is neglible...
Michael Ryan - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to muppetfilter:
> (In reply to remtherockclimber) Not looking hard enough then. :)


Emphasis is on you dude to prove your point. Half price you said.

Ever heard of links

http://gearx.com/dmm-phantom-ultralight-biner-titan.html

$12.75 which is 7.80 not including VT sales tax

7.29 at V12

http://www.v12outdoor.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=69_45&products_id=1504&osCsid=58362...
muppetfilter - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

What with shipping and handling needed to get these products over to the states we are paying substantially more over here Mick and that is a fact.

SC - on 25 Aug 2009
In reply to UKC News:

I want some of them. I was slowly replacing my WC friends with camalots. I might have to wait until spring to see what these are like before replacing the last few. They are only a couple pounds more than the camalots & I would pay that just to have the extendable slings.
In reply to muppetfilter:

Muppet,

I must say I deeply resent your implication that DMM charge over the odds in our home market.

DMM try to offer pan global trade prices. A lot of the differences in retail prices come from currency fluctuations i.e. the tide of business between the UK and EU has changed markedly in the last 12 months. Last year the exchange rate meant that Euro retailers had an advantage, now that has changed and many UK stores are seeing regular orders from the EU.

Kit is cheaper in the USA, but no where near the scale you suggest. There are several reasons why kit is cheaper in the US; primarily it is because the retailer mark-up is less (1.60/1.66 v 1.9/2.0). This is largely because the cost of business is cheaper in the US.

Then you need to add in the fact that US prices never include sales tax (6.25% - 8.25%).

Regards

Simon

DMM
kendogcatchy - on 26 Aug 2009
In reply to Simon Marsh:
there's something great about the response starting of with "muppet"...
Greg Chapman - on 26 Aug 2009
As a further point of interest; here are the suggested RRP's for Camalot C4's from the point when Dragon Cams are released (spring 2010):

0.3-0.5 = 53
0.75-2 = 55
3 = 60
4 = 75
5 = 85
6 = 100

As you can see, if any thing the Dragon RRP's will be lower than the Camalot's. If you are going to moan about prices lets at least start from a balanced viewpoint... not that I am moaning about the prices, I think they are pretty fair in both cases.
Mitch1990 - on 21 Sep 2009
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com: Hey leave muppetfilter alone . . .
he obviously knows a good deal when he see's.

:)

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