/ NEWS: Geldard Onsights Haston Super Route. Haston Speaks
Some said that Haston shouldn't have cleaned it on abseil.
Stevie Haston says that, "Bam, Bam is one of the best single pitch routes in the world. "
Meanwhile Jack Geldard, UKClimbing.com's Chief Editor noting that 'conditions were perfect - there was nothing good on TV', grabbed a good friend, a double rack of gear, then took a deep breath and set off, onsight, up one of the UK's hardest and scariest rock climbs on the Lleyn Peninsular.
Full report at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=49254
"We took safety very seriously," said Jack, "Ian rolled all his cigarettes before I started climbing, so he could keep hold of the rope almost all of the time."
Something caught my eye though - Steve' comments at the bottom...
'I would just like to say I find it absurd that my detracters do not altogether have a small proportion of my ground up or onsight experience, some advice to them: don't talk about that which thou knows nowt about'
Amongst these detractors are Adam Long and Ian Parnell, not exactly your average UKC bumbly and i'm pretty sure they have a better grasp than most of ethcis. A lot of interesting info has been omitted, including reports that several other have tried this route ground-up after deciding not to abseil-clean/inspect first. I'm not going to get drawn into any bunfights, just think that people should read through everything said on both sides of the camp before making up their own minds. UKC reports often tell only part of the story, as indeed do any news reports.
Seeing as I just spent the last three hours writing that report I'd say that I agree with you ; o )
All the arguments are linked to in this news report: both forum threads at UKB and UKC where the ethical discussions have taken place.
And as a UKC bumbly I will refrain from taking umbrage at your insult much preferring to go out rock climbing as the day is still young...... but I'm not telling you where as we are stealing plum lines from under the noses of the Peaksies.
Senior Editor and Chief Punter
Very impressive Jack! Though I'm sure you can guess what I'm thinking now...
Sean, as Stevie has pointed out, neither Ian, myself nor Ben Bransby apparently have sufficent experience to comment on this, so I guess I'd better shut up!
Should stand you in good stead for the Black, if I don't see you before you go, have an even better time over there!
Nice one Jack. Two whole racks!? Must be as safe as houses... <evil laugh>
Nice report Mick - great to hear that despite all that french sunshine Stevie is still Stevie.
Very impressive effort!
So does the quality of climbing live up to the hype? Either way it sounds like a wild adventure.
Nice one Jack. What seems to be getting overlooked amongst the controversy(?) is that yours is one of very, very few (two/three?) true onsights at this grade.
I must say I find all of these ethical debates amusing. Chipping NO, crowbaring off 'looseness' YES, crowbaring off looseness using an ab rope, maybe? bolting YES/NO?, pre-placed trad gear YES/NO?, pegs - no unless someone else put them there?
Surely it is up to the FAionist to decide the ethics he want to employ? Bolting and chipping aside, of course. Or did SH push unfairly to the front of the queue and spoil it for all of the people who were mad keen to get the 'pure' ground up?
The fast repeat by JG surely illustrates that SH has created a fine climb, rather than destroyed one.
Is this an onsight? I mean he had a chance to visually inspect sections of the route before hauling up a second rack! Quite frankly I'm shocked at the way that climbing ethics have been eroded to the point that this is considered onsight. Maybe this is an on-site ascent (no leaving the crag) or do we need a new category. I really hope that to preserve the ethical purity of his ascent Jack hauled a load of useless gear up as well.
More seriously if you had taken everything you subsequently placed from the start would you have got off the deck?
Have a look at the other thread (Haston new route). There are some crags and locations (Range West, Fairhead?, most of the Lleyn) where a ground up ethic for new routes prevails.
>Or did SH push unfairly to the front of the queue and spoil it for all of the people who were mad keen to get the 'pure' ground up?
According to some, yes.
PEN IN SU LA
n a narrow strip of land projecting into a sea or lake from the mainland
(C16: from Latin, literally: almost an island, from paene pene- + insula island)
♦ peninsular adj
The noun peninsula is sometimes confused with the adjective peninsular: the Iberian peninsula (not peninsular)
On the positive side, nice one Steve glad to see you on the lose again. Line looks great. I might have to get myself down and have a go. Do you think it will be quite easy for a big head?
It doesn't Craig.
If you want my attention just call me.
And stop winding me up.
It's my opinion, I'm not trying to wind you up.
As you've pithced it the article hinges on Jack repeating an E8...rather than Jack repeating a route that's taken til now to get a first ascent and was climbed by one of Britain's most original and talented, yet fairly unrecognized climbers, namely Stevie.
Hi Stevie, Thanks for the props, I blame you for '86! It was great fun...I think we swapped roles...you started climbing again and I started drinking!
I still remember doing the 2nd ascent of Me...man that's a great route.
Your comprehension skills are lacking....which is shoddy considering you are a fellow of the Royal Society.
The report describes the difficulty and the nature of the climbing, the gear, Jack's ascent, Stevie and Leigh's first ascent, and the ethical debate. With links to discussions, original news items, a topo. Photos of the ascent.
All this not 12 hours after the second ascent. Jeez some people want the freakin earth. I'm surprised there hasn't been calls of, "Where's the video?"
You could say that the climbs looseness was emphasised a tad too much!
Included is a narrative by Stevie that was posted as I wrote the news report.
Since when. Stevie Haston is recognised by most I would hope as one of the UK's greatest climbers
Where's the video?
Good effort to Stevie Haston. A true legend of British climbing. I think some of his routes on this crag will be waiting for quite some time for a repeat. I thought Bam Bam was a really amazing route and, so good in fact that I have now decided that I won't do any more routes on the Stigmata...
Bit more info on Bam Bam: I found it almost like a route of 3 halves... I was scared for the first half, as I didn't like the gear, then I was scared and pumped for the second half, as I didn't like the gear and my arms didn't like the angle, then I was all out for the third half, as well, I was committed by that point.
I personally thought the physical crux was a longish run-out with some hard and steep moves above what turned out to be some of the better gear fortunately, a 4cu 0.5 and a 3cu 0.5 in a horizontal break. That was a few metres above the ledge in the photo in the report.
The mental crux was of course setting off. And leaving the resting ledge.
The lower section was relatively easy (maybe like E6 6a/b), but a bit scary and I had a bit of a moment a few moves before the ledge too when I stuck a cam in a slot that I really needed for my fingers, but I didn't dare take it out as the no. 1 wire I had in below didn't inspire me much.
A 3 star route and one that should really get more repeats.
Is it just me, or is F7c Weetabix climbing with pish gear a bit harsh even for E8?!
Er, I think you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole trying to use French grades to grade a loose route. Also worth remembering 'Eye of the Tiger': a solid route, but spaced gear with some interesting fall potential E6 6c - F7c/Fc7+ only on-sighted once (let's call it 'flashed'), to my knowledge, with pre placed gear by Steve McClure. So E8 for a loose pumpy 6b route seems a little high to me...try E7 in old money, but what do I know?
It wisnae me that suggested the french grade; it was the first ascentionists (unless of course the UKC editorial team are employing some journalistic license...)
Yeah dangerous F7c+ = E6 in old money. For sure, but in them ole days clambers were reet 'ard and used to climb wit steel rope tied rount tha fookin bollox laak
Nice to see you take up the challenge so fast and glad to see you had better thigs to do than watch the TV.
What did you make of the grade? Only interested as Steve H seemed to accept his second's suggestion (who did't complete the route it seems) and you haven't commented...
Amazing effort Jack!
I thought it was Jack's second, not Stevie's who didn't finish the route?
Personally I think it was a great effort by stevie to put the route up and an amazing effort by jack. Its a shame about all this controversy. I've heard fairhead mentioned but didn't ricky bell clean the route done in Onsight before climbing it. He didn't recieve criticism for this, and rightfully not IMO.
obviously ground up is the ideal but I can't believe cleaning the route has been mentioned in the same breath as chipping etc.
Just a note stevie has done his 9a project! Awesome.
> Just a note stevie has done his 9a project! Awesome.
> Just a note stevie has done his 9a project! Awesome.
Truly inspirational! Well done Stevie.
Congrats, and raising a glass to you, Stevie. You're an exemplar of the real thing (if that doesn't sound too grand) and just get on with it while myriads talk about it.
all well and good,
but what was the E1 you struggled on at the Pits?
Gargantua perhaps...or Sodom?
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