UKC

which would you purchase Rab VR smock or buffalo teclite shirt - putting cost aside

http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/ls1.htm

http://www.rab.uk.com/clothing/vapour-rise/vapour-rise_trail_smock---93/

ive looked at the specs of both of them and they look pretty similar to me.. but im no expert..

i want to use it as a stand alone top in summer with perhaps just a helly under it.. or on its own weather permitting.. and as part of a layering system in winter..

ive read around on the forum and found lots of info on the rab.. but non on the buffalo

which is the better buy?

In reply to cragferrit:
I've got the Rab VR and it's let down by the Kangaroo pocket which can't be closed and the arms are very tight/narrow. I like the chest pocket on the Buffalo and was on the lookout for one but saw the VR in a shop first.
I use the VR as main layer in summer and for warmth/breathability etc it's great for me - no complaints there - but those arms, that pocket ...

In reply to cragferrit:


Whichever fits you better, and has features you prefer, I'd say. Only you can decide that; fixed hood vs fold-away hood, venting options, etc. Rab's wired hood, etc.

The PX4 on the Buffalo is slightly more wind resistant than the Equilibrium on the VR. Not quite sure how the VR comes out lighter than the Buffalo, given that EQ is heavier than PX4, and I think the micropile fabrics are pretty similar.

In reply to cragferrit: I like the Buffalo Fell jacket a lot. Full length zip and a better hood than the Teclite shirt. It's just about all you need when moving during the colder months, and a belay jacket slips on easily over the Pertex when you stop.
I've tried Rab VR tops a few times and the fit wasn't as good -- generally a bit baggy, but tight across the shoulders. Also the quality of construction didn't seem as good.

In reply to cragferrit:

Yes pretty similar in performance though the Equilibrium fabric seems more robust for climbing on rough rock and does feel nicer. Unfortunately the Rab VR has lost it's way since 2007 and has become more of a 'BRAND' with the advertising and the latest models. Buffalo on the other hand is very understated and seems to rely on users and loyal customers to promote itself. Regarding weights - well from my experience the new RAB VR medium smock is about 100 grams heavier than the weight quoted on the website and the Buffalo Teclite being so understated is probably lighter than the weight on it's website! The original Rab VR was one the best bits of clothing I've ever bought but unfortunately the new smocks are pretty poor in comparison though still good. The new ones are a lot warmer, heavier, too tight round the arms and no longer have the chest venting pockets. The Rab's look better hoody style than Buffalo in the pub or bouldering until you try and roll your sleeves up... On the hill and on multi-pitch mountain routes with a climbing harness the buffalo probably performs as well or better in foul weather!!!

In reply to cragferrit: Can only comment on the Rab, I agree with the above in that I am not a big guy but the arms are very tight and unfortunatley I find it very hot, so only use in really poor weather. Again I agree again with above though, it does look good on... just a real pity about the tight arms.....

In reply to Ron Walker:

My Rab VR Trail jacket weights 616g dry (I know this because once, while extremely bored, I weighed all my outdoor gear and recorded the data in a spreadsheet), while Rab's website claims 440g.

I wonder if Rab's quoted weight is the Small size... Mine's a Large.

In reply to Blackadder:

I compared my old VR smock to the new one and was shocked at well over a 100 gram difference in weight. I contacted Rab by email informing them of my unhappiness re the actual weight of the smock compared to the quoted weight on the website of 415 grams - about 25% of a difference. I also mentioned that I thought the tight sleeves and the kangaroo pocket were a big mistake and asked if they were considering producing the old model again with the high level venting chest pockets above the climbing harness line. Several other people have done the same. I never receive a reply. I suppose it's gone the same way as other great British outdoor companies such as Karrimor now that it's been taken over. A real shame...

In reply to dioliahary:

"just a real pity about the tight arms....."

I was reccomened the Rab VR Smock, but when I tried it on, this really was an issue.

I'm pretty small as well 60kg. I tried the small and medium and both were horrible around the arms and underarms. I couldnt have climbed in it, and what really put we off was that you could tell that the tight arms were going to cause your to overheat really bad.

Shame really.

In reply to snoop6060:

I've got a VR smock, I don't mind the kangaroo pocket as you can put you hands in it to keep warm. I don't even have a problem with tight arms, I think it's all to do with the fact that the inside grips fleece which makes the arms feel tight and it needs adjusting every time you put it on. which is a pain in the arse. maybe I got mine too big though the arms are a little long

In reply to snoop6060:
you could tell that the tight arms were going to cause your to overheat really bad

Yep thats it, it doesn't help that when you attempt to roll them up the inner fleece grabs, I usually have to grip them and get them above my elbows to be able to cool off, the only flaw for me however, wore it in semi-blizzard conditions trekking the Fairfield Horseshoe and it did ok.

In reply to cragferrit:

Again I can only comment on the VR. I seem to have a hydrid one with the high venting pockets but also the tight sleeves.
It's cut quite "skinnily" which is no probs generally apart from the sleeves.... they are a total pain as you can't push them up your arms to vent. In addition the inner fabric seems to end up on the outside of the cuff and become iced up(in winter) and chills the wrists if you try to correct it.

If I could have found a driclime with a hood(Marmot pay attention!) or buffalo that fitted me at the time I reckon I'd have gotten one of those instead.

In reply to SFM et al:

In the interests of balance, I have a Vapour Rise smock (probably the newest design - non venting handwarmer pockets).

The arms are tight but I can roll my sleeves up okay, at least if I wear a short sleeved rather than long sleeved base layer underneath.

I am slim and maybe have arms like twigs. Perhaps it is a case of 'try before buy' as the sleeves are fine for some people (me).

I find the hood could do with being a little higher, but other than that my VR smock is great. It is meant to be close fitting for wicking and retaining warmth.

I don't wear it in summer though.

In reply to SFM:

Sound like you have the older pre '97 VR which I love. The newer ones have even tighter sleeves compared to the old ones.

Like you I would like a smock with a hood. I have recently been using the Mountain Equipment Alpine jacket which works very well on the high energy activities that I used my old VR Trail on. It is surprisingly light and breathable yet waterproof too. Not so sure about the outer fabrics durability though...!

It would be nice if they made a smock version with a basic hood for when it really pisses down. Mountain Equipment please note!!!

In reply to cragferrit:

I had a Rab VR smock for a few years till it got nicked last year. Plumped for a Buffalo Teclite smock to replace it cos decided I wanted to buy British. Really liked the Rab top, was really practical, but not disappointed with the Teclite top. It does feel more wind resistant than the Rab, fits much better...snug round the torso and chest...(you can tighten it round the small of your back with a strap), good room round the shoulders. Front pocket dead practical, sleeves plenty big enough to roll up easily but not baggy,think the hood on my older Rab was a bit better than the one on the Teclite but still love the Buffalo's hood which cinches up lovely around your face. I like that you can fully open both side zips to fully ventilate and fasten your pack waist belt inside the jacket to get loads of fresh air in! Build quality seems spot on. And I feel better wearing it because it's been made in Britain, not knocked out in a far east sweatshop. Used it last year in Scotland during the cold snap over Christmas and kept me very comfy while I was moving reasonably fast, admittedly with a thin base layer beneath. Hope that helps.

Essay over!!

In reply to timbers:

Forgot to mention that the Teclite shrugs off more water better then the Rab.

In reply to cragferrit: I'll offer a view of balance. I think the VR rocks, I've worn it next to skin and with a thermal under for winter climbing, winter mountain walking and ski mountaineering. I was aware of the issue with sleeves/arms when I bought it. I bought it ever so slightly on the large side - I'm always either L or XL with mountain clothing, depending on manufacturer. Buying XL gives me the movement I need without being baggy, and because it is ever so slightly big, means it vents well.

for me the problem with the inner of the sleeves sitcking etc is far outweighed by the positives of this item.

As for waterproofing, of course a Buffalo will shed more water! However, washing the VR with softshell wash and/or waterproofer does the business too.

As I said, I just wanted to give a view for balance. Most of these things come down to the buyer deciding - probably based on hunch and colour and look rather than the specifics, if we're entirely honest!!

In reply to nickinscottishmountains: One more thing - either top with a Helly on in summer will be distinctly HOT!