/ Into Thin Air

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Rourke - on 19 Oct 2009
Picked this up in Kathmandu and just started watching it

My expectations arent high but anyone seen it and have any views?
Gordon Stainforth - on 19 Oct 2009
In reply to Rourke:

Have you read the book?
Carpe Diem - on 19 Oct 2009
In reply to Rourke:

The book is a fascinating and absorbing read.

If you read it you should also read this: http://www.amazon.com/Climb-Tragic-Ambitions-Everest/dp/0312965338

This guy was a hero.


The film ' into thin air' is one of the worst I've ever seen,and that's being kind.
Rourke - on 19 Oct 2009
In reply to Carpe Diem:

Haven't read the book, will do one day but heard it was very scathing of Bookreev. Climb, I would also like to read but I am not a profilc reader
Carpe Diem - on 19 Oct 2009
In reply to Rourke: He was,and very unfairly in my opinion.While JK was in a semi conscious hypoxic state in his tent,bookreev was saving lives.

but seriously, you should read both to get a good picture.
Rourke - on 19 Oct 2009
In reply to Carpe Diem:

Will do, not expecting the film to do anything other than pas a couple of hours - still it only cost me a 1
lowersharpnose - on 20 Oct 2009
In reply to Carpe Diem:

All from memory...

The bit you will not get from Krakauer's book is that Anatoli Boukreev was working for Scott Fischer's Mountain Madness, his job was to look after their clients. None of them died and Boukreev was able to save others too.

Krakauer was with NZ Rob Hall's Adventure Consultants, some of Krakauer's fellow clients died (Doug Hanson, Yasuko Namba).

lsn
Carpe Diem - on 21 Oct 2009
In reply to Rourke:

so was it worth the ?
twm.bwen - on 21 Oct 2009
In reply to lowersharpnose:

Succinclt put. Krakauer is a kno@b and Boutreev was a legend.
Neil Pratt - on 22 Oct 2009
In reply to twm.bwen:

Can't say I read the book that way -I thought Boukreev was presented as a guy who was possibly a bit self-serving, but who pretty heroically put himself in harms way for the sake of others when it came to the crunch.

I also thought Krakauer was pretty honest about his own limitations as a climber and and in terms of his ability to do anything other than get himself down when the sh*t hit the fan.

I've not gotten round to reading 'The Climb' yet, so above is based purely on reading Into Thin Air and some other stuff that discusses the same events 2nd hand.
knthrak1982 on 22 Oct 2009
In reply to Ditch_Jockey:
> (In reply to twm.bwen)
>
> Can't say I read the book that way -I thought Boukreev was presented as a guy who was possibly a bit self-serving, but who pretty heroically put himself in harms way for the sake of others when it came to the crunch.
>
I concur. Having read Into Thin Air, I thought Boukreev came accross as a hero overall.

I later read The Climb. On the back of this book, it says something like "Into Thin Air portrayed Boukreev as an irresponsible Russian Villain." I read this thinking "..no it didn't."

I think they're both good books. Of course, this topic is about the film, which I haven't seen.
lost1977 - on 22 Oct 2009
In reply to lowersharpnose:
> (In reply to Carpe Diem)
>
> All from memory...
>
> The bit you will not get from Krakauer's book is that Anatoli Boukreev was working for Scott Fischer's Mountain Madness, his job was to look after their clients. None of them died and Boukreev was able to save others too.
>
> Krakauer was with NZ Rob Hall's Adventure Consultants, some of Krakauer's fellow clients died (Doug Hanson, Yasuko Namba).
>
> lsn


but do remember Krakauer was a client not a guide so although there would have been some moral responsibility to help others there was not a professional responsibility (Rob Hall died trying to save Hanson who was his client). Krakauer's book is always portrayed badly due to some of the way events were portrayed and some inaccurate details but he does admit that this was because his head was f*cked because of the altitude, Unless you have spent time in similar conditions at that altitude you may not fully understand what it would have been like

JIB - on 22 Oct 2009
In reply to lost1977: You're right to reflect accurately on Krakauer's role - there are unfortunately a number of amibiguities around his position and his writing (my impression having read the accounts of Krakauer, Boukreev, Gamelgaard et al) - is that Krakauer perceived himself as providing a pivotal reflection of what occurred.

That a number of the inaccuracies in Krakauer's account caused significant distress is widely acknowledged, especially the impact on Andy Harris's family, but I believe that Krakauer's account serves a useful purpose in explaining just how different perception and reality can be at altitude.
DaveH - on 22 Oct 2009
In reply to JIB:

The edition of Into Thin Air that's on sale in the US has a direct response to the accusations made in "The Climb". I don't know why that edition isn't on sale in the UK, and I'm afraid I don't have a copy with me to give an account of Krakauer's response, but I remember browsing it in a US bookshop and feeling that the whole thing just wasn't as clear cut as I'd thought after reading "The Climb".
Gordon Stainforth - on 22 Oct 2009
In reply to JIB:
> (In reply to lost1977) You're right to reflect accurately on Krakauer's role - there are unfortunately a number of amibiguities around his position and his writing (my impression having read the accounts of Krakauer, Boukreev, Gamelgaard et al) - is that Krakauer perceived himself as providing a pivotal reflection of what occurred.
>
> That a number of the inaccuracies in Krakauer's account caused significant distress is widely acknowledged, especially the impact on Andy Harris's family, but I believe that Krakauer's account serves a useful purpose in explaining just how different perception and reality can be at altitude.

Well, despite its flaws, it is surely a classic, almost compulsory reading for any mountaineer. The truth is that both books are very good, and to get a rounded picture you simply have to read both. But the Krakauer is the better writing and perhaps the more important book in the long term because of the way it works and the implicit message it puts across, which stands, despite the inaccuracies in detail.

lowersharpnose - on 22 Oct 2009
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I agree that Krakauer's book is a great read. One you start and keep turning the pages until you have finished.

What is the implicit message to which you refer?
Gordon Stainforth - on 22 Oct 2009
In reply to lowersharpnose:
> (In reply to Gordon Stainforth)

>
> What is the implicit message to which you refer?

The way commercialism and greed can destroy the whole spirit of the enterprise. It comes across as as modern-day Greek tragedy to me, with a huge moral message about hubris. As I say, essential reading for anyone thinking about venturing into Himalayan mountaineering. The other essential book is The Ascent of Rum Doodle.
Carpe Diem - on 22 Oct 2009
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
> (In reply to lowersharpnose)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> The other essential book is The Ascent of Rum Doodle.

What's its implicit message then? :)

lowersharpnose - on 22 Oct 2009
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

The way commercialism and greed can destroy the whole spirit of the enterprise. It comes across as as modern-day Greek tragedy to me, with a huge moral message about hubris.

Well put.

w.r.t. hubris - are you referring to the risks taken by the leaders of the commercial groups e.g. fitness/abilities/mountain sense/acclimatisation of clients,turn around times etc.

Gordon Stainforth - on 22 Oct 2009
In reply to Carpe Diem:
> (In reply to Gordon Stainforth)
> [...]
>
> What's its implicit message then? :)

That mountaineers should never, ever take themselves too seriously.

Gordon Stainforth - on 22 Oct 2009
In reply to lowersharpnose:
> (In reply to Gordon Stainforth)
>
> The way commercialism and greed can destroy the whole spirit of the enterprise. It comes across as as modern-day Greek tragedy to me, with a huge moral message about hubris.
>
> Well put.
>
> w.r.t. hubris - are you referring to the risks taken by the leaders of the commercial groups e.g. fitness/abilities/mountain sense/acclimatisation of clients,turn around times etc.

No, hubris all round. Leaders and clients alike.

Carpe Diem - on 22 Oct 2009
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I had the book for some time, but never got past the 3rd chapter or so.

I shall try again..
Gordon Stainforth - on 22 Oct 2009
In reply to Carpe Diem:

One of the funniest books I've ever read, funnier possibly even than Jerome K. Jerome.

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