UKC

I'm looking to get some ice screw probably going to be used in the alps mainly but there are quite a few lengths to choose form most are ranging form about 13cm to 22cm. so Which sizes are best and get the most of.
cheers in advance...

In reply to mountainsheep:

Usually 22cm for belays, 17cm for runners and smaller for thinner ice.

So in answer to your question, you should have more 17cmish ones for runners.

In reply to mountainsheep: 16mm and 17mm are the most useful length. 22mm are good for belays and shorties should be reserved for thin ice. You will require at least 2 x 22mm, one for each person to belay with. I usually use a second screw of shorter length on belays. My typical rack for ice fall climbing would therefore be:

22mm x 2
19mm x 2
16mm/17mm x 6
13mm x 2

I would probably carry less on a mountain route.

Al

In reply to tradlad:
12 screws? I don't think I've ever carried more than 9. I'd take
1x 22cm for belays (for making threads etc)
7x 16/17cm
1x 10/13cm
1x bulldog or similar

Possibly taking an extra 22cm screw and another shorty depending on ice conditions.

In reply to Reach>Talent: I've never carried more than 10 but I have described a rack for two climbers. It does of course depend on the grade and length of the route. I don't think that 12 would be too many for me on a grade 5/6 that was a full rope length. On alpine routes I usually only carry about 4.

Al

In reply to Reach>Talent:

But, with the longest at 22mm [sic.], they're much lighter than anybody else's!

In reply to petestack: Oops!

Al

In reply to mountainsheep:

I would add that racking of screws is all important, so getting the same model helps loads. I can't get grivel 360's to rack nicely, their helix's do though and are cheap, but the fixed handle can get in the way on lumpy ice. I like Black Diamond Turbo expresses best, they rack best and the handle is something I would always look for if buying (have some dmm screws that have no handle and much prefer a handle.)

In reply to jonnie3430: Second the BD turbo express screws. The trouble is they feel so easy going in that I have to turn them a few times without the handle to reassure myself that they are in reality tight.

Al

In reply to jonnie3430: Check out this article, and what it says about shorties: http://www.mra.org/services/grants/documents/Beverly_IceScrews_Final.pdf

In reply to iksander:

Interesting read - cheers for the linky

In reply to iksander:


Very interesting. So, it concludes:

"Short (“stubbie”) screws when placed in good ice provide a significant amount of
protection that was quite unexpected and equivalent to that of rock gear when
placed at ≥+10º but ≤+30º."


I don't have much experience with ice screws (yet), but from reading that, and http://www.needlesports.com/advice/placingscrews.htm , I'm inclined to think shorter screws are more useful. They are quicker to place, less likely to stick out from the ice and need tied off, and the impression I get from those articles is that if they are placed well in good ice, short screws are strong enough, and if placed in not-so-good ice, longer screws will probably still be too weak.

Is that the right interpretation, more or less? It would be nice if that was the case, because at the moment I only have 3 15cm screws (though I'd like a longer one for making abalakov threads).

In reply to KeithAlexander:

Short screws are probably strong enough for solid water ice. However in Scotland you usually get muti-layer ice with lots of air pockets and sugary crust. The screw will need to be long enough to penetrates into the good solid layers underneath.

In reply to mountainsheep:

I dont like a whole bunch of different sizes; makes racking more of a faff.

In reply to iksander:

Is this the same piece of research that found abolakovs with vertically aligned holes stronger than those with horizontally aligned holes?

In reply to mountainsheep:

here is an interesting video if you havent seen it before:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7z2t1_ice-anchor-workshop_sport

just a shame it doesnt show the forces applied!

In reply to jamestheyip: I'm far from an expert, but if I remember ice conditions seem to be the biggest determinant of screw failure. Oh, and I think they only tested BD screws, so that's another caveat to remember when you're sweating too far above your last bit of gear... with only a Grivel shorty left Terms and conditions apply etc.