UKC

Climbing with a mate indoors last night,he ties on i check everything ok fg 8 stop knot all snug harness A ok, now for the worry three quaters the way up he takes a fall, i give him a good dynamic belay of say 1.5ft,still everything ok until i lowerd him off and we discoverd the rope was stuck together at the knot i mean melted stuck, not very bad but enough for worry,
The ropes 5 months old never used outside never taken many falls only rests at clips,in almost brand new condition,its the first beal rope ive bought and was woundering if anyone else has experienced this with there ropes. just to add the knot was tight at the start txt book tied.

In reply to wilton warrior: Was the knot tightened?

In reply to fishy1: yes the knot was tight, text book tied really, cant understand it never in my climbing has this happened.

In reply to fishy1:

apparently so, if you read it.

In reply to wilton warrior:

Do you believe in the supernatural, or do you accept that someone made a serious mistake here in mis-tying the knot?

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

In reply to wilton warrior: if the knot was tight, I can't see how you'd get enough friction (ie caused by the sheaf rubbing against itself) to heat it up enough to melt the rope. You sure the knot was good? Good quality ropes don't fail without reason.

Good news is that you should be able to cut off the burnt end (loads of advise on line how to do this) and still have a good rope for indoor use.

In reply to Newton: yeah knot was good no light passing through it, tight has human hands could pull it and stop knot was snug to,loop to harnees was fist width everything A ok, i have a hot knife and end repairs so ropes been sorted thanks, just cant understand it thanks for reply.

In reply to wilton warrior:
I know that feeling.

In reply to Hairy Pete: eh! what! don't no what you mean.

In reply to wilton warrior:

I'd contact Beal, get their take. A short fall shouldn't do that to a good knot. I've never seen anything like that even in ropes I've snapped. Could it have been contaminated? And are you sure it was actually melted, not just super super tight? Could the knot have slid down the other half of the rope in the fall*?

*you'd expect that to scorch part of the knot but not weld anything together.

Quite an odd story.

jk

In reply to wilton warrior: Intriguing.

The only thing I can possibly think of that might have some bearing is humidity, or rather lack of. If the rope was super dry it might have lower specific heat capacity and hence heat up more. Even then, it probably wouldn't make an appreciable difference...

Out of interest is it possible to explain which part of the knot was melted - loop end, middle or rope/tail end?

In reply to Mark Stevenson: It was the two strands that pass inside the knot that were stuck, when opening the knot it came apart. but these two strands didnt a little click and a tiny black mark was left. the ropes always been well looked after no contamination always in rope bag. but i did notice when using it the other night it tended to stick regularly in the gri gri, i also checked this to make sure of no dirt or other was being passed on to the rope, and yes it did feel rather dry,was making a kind of creeking noise at the knot under tension?

In reply to wilton warrior:

this deserves investigation.

a few years back, to settle an argument about heat generated by fig 8's, a bunch of us heated an 8 to scorching point (tested on our wooden bbq table) and applied it to different ropes.
outcome: only the fuzz was melted on dynamic and static ropes. accessory cord melted thru.

its simply not possible to melt a climbing rope without serious heat applied for an abnormal length of time.
even cutting rope using the old loop of cord method is time consuming.

now, im not doubting the story. weirder things have happened.
im just seriously intrigued.

my question is, was it a coating (dry, teflon etc they dope ropes with nowdays) or was it actual sheath fibers that had melted together?

how was it when you pulled it apart?

was there a smell? melted rope has an obvious, lingering, toxic smell.

you know what it may have been (thinkin out loud here, listen for the cogs grinding).
being the end of the rope, maybe thered been a manufacturers sticker (CE rating, brand name etc) that had been shredded off and left some kind of residue.

could there have been some sort of resin or something around the gym? god only knows, coca cola may have some effect.

does your partner exude strange substances (contact the vatican if so)?

In reply to wilton warrior:

have you still got the bit of rope which melted?
could you upload a picture of it?

sounds interesting.

In reply to wilton warrior:

Hi,

I've seen this happen.

Usually when the rope is chalky. It doesn't just happen with knots, it can also happen where the rope is running over a quickdraw.

What's happened next is that the rope is sent back. The rope company send you a new rope and say they will investigate... then silence...

In reply to andi turner:

The inside edges of the quickdraw spines at my local wall are all coated in a sticky (not to the touch, just well adhered to the krab) black substance that can only have been stripped off ropes. You commonly see it also as vertical streaks on convex walls where the rope rubs. I suspect it's either the dry treatment, general filth (dust, sweat etc), something (crumbs/dust) picked up off the rubber floor or a coating left over from the weaving process.

I wonder if this was something similar. In the follow up description it doesn't really sound like the ropes were melted together, just lightly stuck to each other. Perhaps I misinterpreted.

jk

In reply to wilton warrior:

Has the rope melted, or is there still a residue of dry treatment on the rope ? I know new ropes can feel unaturaly shiny for a while.

In reply to wilton warrior:

Can you see the face of Jesus in the burnt bit of the knot?

In reply to wilton warrior:
was you're mate very heavy or was it a big fall ?????
i remember this all happening before, some ropes are just prone, maybe ?
can you, feel with your fingers, to find if the damage is just in the sheath or has it melted deeper into the core ??
remember the outside is to protect the core. so if the core is not melted in any way then, carry on.

In reply to jkarran:
i concur.

In reply to all: Hi guys thanks for your interests and replys i think the best thing here is for me to contact beal and let them take a look at it, after reading through your replys i can clear a few details up here, there was no lable on the rope end has we all no these tend to last a week if that, the ropes been fine until now, the only other thing that has been brought to my attention is the chalk transfer, my mate normaly uses metolius loose chalk,but had to buy the block stuff the other night has he had ran out,i can upload a photo of the rope but i don't think this would help, the rope feels wierd to the touch kind of a ruff scortched feeling but without real upclose investigation theres not much you can see, the post about the coating on the rope and the transfer on to the wall and crabs is interesting aswell this seems also a possiblity has you say the black marks at the walls are very clear evidence of this,like i said i think the best bet is beal to view it and ill keep you all posted on their replys thanks, and a merry christmas to you all.

In reply to trimtram: He weighs around 12 stone quite a stocky lad, it wasnt that big a fall maybe a clip length just passed plus i gave him an extra 1.5ft as i antisipated he was gonna come off the cores fine just surface damage really.

In reply to wilton warrior:

let us know.

and wow. thats a sentence. youre not james joyce by any chance...?

In reply to wilton warrior:
Would this be another good reason to use a bowline.

In reply to wilton warrior:

12st is not stocky...

In reply to ice.solo: Or Faulkner?

In reply to rilem: If he was 5ft 5?

In reply to Daniel Armitage: very good mate you got his hight bang on.

In reply to joolskilly: I use a bowline unless im tradding,my mate does not hes not confident in tying a bowline, he sticks with what he knows, i have taught him the bowline and explained the benifits of it not jamming up has much, and being a bit easyer to untie after a fall, but in this case i think any knot could have done the same im still awaiting a reply from beal.

In reply to all: still not had word back from beal yet contacted them 5 days ago now to explain what has happened and had no emails or reply of any kind not happy