UKC

What's that all about then (a bit shy of asking really)!


Is a 'hardshell' a cagoule/anorak and a 'soft-shell' a jumper?

Or is there more I need to know?


Chris

PS Season's Greetings

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Think more 'pac-a-mac' and 'duffle coat'. With those mini ivory tusk buttoners.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Excellent Chris... No, you're about right.

A hard shell is hard and a soft shell isn't.

In reply to quadmyre:

OK - I'm getting it, a hard-shell is a waterproof, and a soft-shell is a fleece or similar?


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs: http://www.backcountry.com/store/newsletter/a127/What-THE-HECK-is-Soft-Shel...

In reply to Nigel Modern:

Cheers for that - I was well wide of the mark.


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs: I'm still confused...I think softshell is used in different ways by different manufacturers. For me it's any alternative to Gore/eVent etc.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

No soft shell will claim to be as waterproof as eVent or GoreTex, more windproof and showerproof

In reply to atbboy:

Yes, they need combining with other layers eg Paramo Ascent + Summit Hoodie...or they are multilayered and waterproof (if eg the Aspira ticks your box as softshell)

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Hi Chris,

Festive tidings etc.

If this isn't a troll..... it's got nothing to do with whether a material is actually hard or soft feeling, more to do with the permeability of the fabric or membrane

In essence hardshells are waterproof (measured by appropriate industry standards), which limits breathability.

Softshells are not and vary in degree of "weather resistance", usually this inversely corresponds with breathability.

I consider buffalo gear to be softshell with it's pertex outer. I do not consider Mountain Hardware's Conduit fabric to be softshell as I understand it be waterproof.

Hope that helps!

RPG

In reply to Chris Craggs:

A soft shell will do anything it's manufacturer says it will. Keep the rain out, keep the wind out, keep you warm, keep you cool, stop you sweating, make you look cool (or warm, obviously), make you into a super alpinist, convert a hard severe climber into and E5 climber - in just one layer of over-hyped crap.

Stick with yer jumper and cag, Chris...!

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Hi Chris

Softshell is effectively a shell that's not 'hard' eg waterproof. This should mean the fabric itself gives extra breathbility at the expense of waterproofness. It's generally not brilliant as a stand alone shell in the UK unless it's unlikely to rain or the rain is very light.Although it can be used as a warm windshirt that can be also be worn as a mid layer. It also works well on cold days and is particularly good in dry snow.Think of the older pile/pertex garments as a good comparison.

Sadly the lines are now very blurred and there are soft shells out there that are made from totally waterproof fabrics, which don't breathe any better (often worse) than eVENT or Gore-Tex but don't have taped seams, storm flaps etc. And then there are some that even do have taped seams and storm flaps - don't ask me how they are soft shell???

Hope that helps?

In reply to Chris Craggs: Good work Chris. It's a question I probably should have asked ages ago!
My Nan's knitting is soft, and a binbag is hard. I think I've got it.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

The idea of soft shell has been around for years..

Ventile and Helenca were both soft shell,

Buffalo and Paramo were '90s incarnations.

Modern soft shell fabrics aim to mimic the properties of the above fabrics, some are really good, some are rubbish.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Snails are hard shell, slugs aren't.

In reply to jon:

... just realised, must be raining in Kalymnos...

In reply to jon:

>Stick with yer jumper and cag, Chris...!

Us old uns, never bothered with all the fancy names for fabrics. Just bought our Javelin pile jacket and Peter Storm cag and we were away.

For a blast from the past have a look at this fantastic thread with all the old names mentioned;
http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/forummessages/mps/UTN/18011/URN/1/dt/4/s...

In reply to Chris Craggs:

Unless it is pouring I wouldn't ever wear full hard shell gear again.
Boil in the bag- no thanks.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

hardshells what you need when its raining.

sofshells what you need when its not raining

In reply to Chris Craggs:
Do I suspect MrCC & MrKTT are closely related?

In reply to A Chorlton Climber:

Possibly though I doubt it - not really sure who Mr KTT is.


Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:
Glad this was brought up - I have a pair of Schoeller pants, bought about 12 years ago that are incredibly tough, seem sort of waterproof, work well when it's hot and fairly well when it's windy, don't need cleaning and make me look cool. I'm guessing these would be softshell material?