UKC

A quick introduction first as this is my first post!

My name is James, I started climbing indoor about 7 months ago and have recently started to sway towards the outdoor climbing...

I havent ventured to the trad climbing side of things yet and currently lead sport routes indoor and in the Peaks. I have just bought a few bits and bobs, quickdraws, slings, helmet etc along with a copy of Rockfax's "Sport Climbing+". Cracking book imo and answered a lot of questions that I have, apart from one..

Lowering off mid route has always puzzled me a little and seems that your going to have to leave behing some gear, karb, mallions perhaps. I'm a tight arse and dont want to do this. The book mentions the "Magic Sling Trick", great I thought, lowering off from a bolt mid route and leaving no gear behind. BUT, its concerns me a little that the rope will be passing straight through the sling, creating friction, heat? Is this safe? The slings I ordered came today, Lyon Dyneema's and the little leaflet that comes with it says not to pass the rope straight through the sling as this will cause the sling to melt. Pretty much what I thought anyway. Common sense says one thing and Rockfax says the other!

I'd be grateful to hear anyones thoughs and if anyone knows of a way to lower of mid way up a sports route leaving no gear behind?

Happy new year btw!

James

In reply to R8JimBob88:
Whatever Rockfax's Magic Sling Trick (probably just called abseiling off using a retrievable sling to everyone else) is its not what you're thinking of! Never run the rope through a sling if you want the sling to stay in tact.

In reply to Will Hunt:

So have I miss read it or am I going to have to leave something behind? Suppose it'll be a good reason to climb harder to get to the top so I can lower off and retrieve all my gear!

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Ah, so is it possible to abseil off one from a fixed bolt and retrieve it? I thought I was getting the hang of this climbing malarky...

In reply to R8JimBob88: Buy a few maillons, they only cost about a quid or so each

In reply to mobeirn:

I have bought a couple of these anyway.

Thanks for the replies folks.

I guess my question now is... Is it possible to descend a route from a fixed bolt leaving no gear behind?

In reply to R8JimBob88:

Yes. Read the section again. And then practice using a rope, a sling, and on the first bolt at a climbing wall.

In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

I'll give it a blast tomorrow. Cheers man

Where can you buy cheap maillons>

Thanks

In reply to R8JimBob88:

Yes, but I'd only ever try it on a route with staples, rather than bolted hangers. Get some maillons, they're cheap and expendable - moreso than your life!

In reply to R8JimBob88:

While it's good to know these techniques I prefer to think of abing off a sling on a single bolt as a last resort. Buy/make a clip stick a get to the top to lower off safely. Setting up the sling thing isn't that easy and it wouldn't be too hard to cock-up the process.

In reply to R8JimBob88: First, this is only a fall back option when something has gone wrong. I've been climbing for many years and have only ever done this once and that was on a hybrid slate route where the runouts meant that climbing it bolt-to-bolt wasn't an appealing option.

Second, from my expereince mentioned above it does work perfectly as advertised and is the best way to bail, provided you are low enough.

Third, you are very right to be concerned. The LAST thing you should use is a sling. If you are going to do it you should only ever use a prussik loop (normally 125cm x 5mm cord) which is less susceptible to damage, only costs about 70 pence to replace and should probably be on your harness in any case.

HTH

In reply to R8JimBob88:

I think tricks like this are not for someone who's just about to start climbing outside... It does work but it has certain restrictions as your maths will tell you. But above all, it means untying from the rope, setting up correctly, then abseiling.

The easiest, safest method of bailing from a sport route is simply leaving a krab behind - a leaver-biner. It means carrying a krab at all times on the back of your harness for this purpose (assuming you won't want to leave one off one of your quick draws). It doesn't have to be a brand new krab... though I appreciate that a beginner is less likely to have a supply of old ones... However, it means that you simply clip your rope in - and lower down. For the price of a pint or two... It's better than carrying a maillon as it's more versatile, ie it's a spare krab if you need it. And it's not unsightly - it won't be there long!

In reply to R8JimBob88:

It is all to do with loading. In the 'magic sling trick' you never pull a loaded rope across a sling - an action that would quickly melt through the sling - instead you abseil on the rope settled in position on the sling and only pull the unloaded rope across the sling to retrieve everything. This isn't good for the sling, but it will survive it, although I wouldn't make a habit of doing it with the same sling.

Alan

In reply to R8JimBob88: As stated - mallions are safe, but ask someone and practice before going up high. There is a chance the rope can open the gate - if you put the gate on the wrong side.

In reply to R8JimBob88: I think people are to keen on bailing from climbs anyway. Make it hurt the wallet to bail, and you will learn not to give up so easily.

If you can't learn to suck it up, make a stick clip. Infact, make a stick clip anyway. It'll cost less than 15£ and will take you up most sport climbs in the world, regardless of grade. http://www.rockclimbing.com/Articles/Gear_and_Reviews/Stick_Clip_Tricks_for...

In reply to mark237:

...also the rating stamped on Mallions is the safe working limit, this equates to 1/5 of the breaking limit.

In reply to R8JimBob88: Use a screw gate, a brand new one is about £5, its your life, what's that worth? Don't mess about with something that could go wrong.

Stu

In reply to R8JimBob88: As a slight aside, from someone who's never indulged in much sport climbing, what's the etiquette regarding leaving a krab/maillon through a bolt when retreating half way through a route. Obviously first priority is safety of the climber, but it's always intrigued me that if people are frequently bailing on a route mid way up that you could end up with a line of bolts all with a maillon through them, making clipping so much more of a faff and potentially making gettting to the top less likely.

It could be I'm creating a hypothetical situation that's very rarely happened so hasn't become an issue, but it's just struck me as an inhenerent part of leaving a maillon when bailing.

In reply to Liam M:

What, leave crag-swag in situ? Not likely.

In reply to Liam M:

Rarely a line of krabs/maillons... Sometimes a maillon lives on the bolt below the crux! Leaving a krab isn't much of a problem as it won't stay there long. With modern hangers, you can generally get two krabs through the eye, no problem. If there is an easier route next door then retrieving a krab is quite easy. If the bolts are rings then you can just thread the rope through. Whatever, leaving a krab or maillon is much better than a bit of tape/cord.