UKC

Came across this

http://climbing.about.com/od/climbingknots/a/EqualFigure8Kno.htm

Basically is this common - never heard of it before and not 100% sure how to tie it?

Just thinking of new ways to construct a belay . I've looked at WC Cordellette's or making one myself but this looked like it would work with my climbing rope and save the faff of tying clove hitches etc.....

Thoughts???

In reply to nomisb: bump????

In reply to nomisb: I cant think of a scenario where one would be an advantage belays are usually tied in a way to keep the anchors inline with the expected loading.So an anchor that swings about equalising isnt needed.
A weak point is that it is vulnerable, the large loop being compromised means the anchor system fails completely.

In reply to nomisb:

How to tie it:-

http://www.ehow.com/video_4411908_tie-triple-figure-eight-knot.html

In reply to nomisb:
I've known how to tie this knot for a few years, but I've never used it in anger. It seemed a good idea when I first heard about it, but I've never been in a situation in which it's better than a method with which I'm more familiar.

In reply to Owain Young:
I am not sure if the two knots are the same. The triple bowline has all three loops out of the same area, the equalising one doesn't. I can't find a reference to tying the eq. fig 8, it does seem a bit obscure.
Steve

In reply to steveshaking:

?? The video is for a triple 'fig 8' (as in the title) - not
a triple Bowline.

In reply to nomisb:


>faff of tying clove hitches etc.....


How hard is it tie a clove hitch. Done in 2 seconds, easily adjustable, and secure.

try doing that with a figure of eight...

In reply to rusty_nails: Not the clove hitch per say but the rest of the associated work. It looked like a nice simple way of having a dynamic belay setup off my rope using one knot.

In reply to indalo: Many thanks

In reply to nomisb:

I'm sure you know this but there is a real down side of a self equalising belay when the relative strengths of your anchors are unknown or unequal (as in most trad cases). In that case you don't want a failure of the weakest anchor to release a load of slack into the system which results on you being pulled off the stance and compromising the remaining anchors. You could argue that the same really holds for bolts because you only need a redundant bolt anchor (two or more bolts) to allow for one of them being weaker than expected - a quaranteed full strength single bolt is strong enough on its own most of the time.

In summary, its neat but its certainly not a set up I'd ever chose to use.

In reply to nomisb: Triple fig 8, my mistake, it’s still not the same knot as the eq fig 8, does anybody have an idea of how to tie it so we can see.
Another alternative is the double or triple alpine butterfly if you are that into your knots.
Having said that, I doubt using clove hitches is that much slower given now quick they are to tie and now easy they are to adjust.
Plus there has been a lot of debate and research into self equalising set ups. It still seems unclear whether a sliding x might be better or not that a knotted system as actual equalisation is hard to achieve, specially with different arm lengths etc. A paper from cave.org looks at force vector issue in detail and challenges the issues around arm angle, recommending you concentrate on reasonable arm lengths and good placements. http://gravsports.blogspot.com/2007/01/equalizing-belays.html shows the advantage of sliding x. I guess knots limit and inhibit proper equalisation.
But in the real world most of these systems seem adequate and you also need to factor in what simple and practical to set up when you are knackered and the wind is getting up, at that point complex alternatives quickly lose any appeal.
Stave

In reply to nomisb:

i agree - thertes nothing easier to tie, especially one-handed, than a clove hitch. and on a triple anchor you only need 2 anyway.
personally i try and minimize fig 8s, and instead use fig 9s to make up for the lack of dynamism in the clove hitches.

maybe that knots ok for nice triple bolted anchors, but on trad pro or more so, ice, its not nearly bomber enough to take a blow-out and the resulting shock loading.

and anyway, look at the guy who wrote it up...
does it look like hes rigged one of these on great trango?