UKC

Was just wondering if there was any reliability in placing an ice screw into an old bored out ice screw hole. Would imagin limited options could make it a better than nothing option? Plus might help keep well climbed delicate pillars etc in better nic? A total beginner but seems like something I should know.

In reply to pdufus:
Not a good idea because when a screw is placed and removed it will weaken the surrounding ice. Also when placing the screw, the ice that comes out the hole helps you know how good the ice is or not. I wouldnt reccomend it.

In reply to pdufus:

In the past I have seen bulges of ice with a dozen or more holes in them. I think the people who made most of those holes would have been safer re-using existing holes than making so many holes in a small area. Depending upon the conditions, screw holes and any surrounding cracks may start to refill and mend immediately. Better to reuse a tight-fitting hole in good ice than create a weak honeycomb of screw holes or place a screw in poor ice.

In reply to pdufus:

I seem to remember reading somewhere that screws placed in existing holes can be even stronger than newly placed ones. I will try to remember where I saw it and let you know.

In the meantime, you may find this article by George McEwan quite useful:

http://www.glenmorelodge.org.uk/cust_images/pdf/mountainsport%20articles/GM...

In reply to pdufus:

There's a link to some test results here which show that reused screw holes in good ice are near full strength. Also good test results showing the vertical Abalakov anchor is stronger than the horizontal one. a little bit of Googling should find it fairly easily.

In reply to pdufus:

This is a good and relevant question and not simply because of "Owt's better ner nowt!" as they say in Yorkshire.

Years ago I carried oversize Russian titanium screws for this very purpose and they bored well into old screw holes. These days I don't bother and just use standard screws in old screw holes. As has correctly been said, old screw holes will become smaller in diameter over time and they can be reused if there's no alternative, or if you're in need of a quick placement. You can also place a long screw (if it's physically possible) in a hole previously bored out by a shorter screw. On the occasions when I reuse old holes, I always assess the quality of the ice and the risk of falling on such a placement. If I think it's a bit marginal, I'll clip a screamer into the screw.

So, IMHO, if the old screw hole is in good quality ice, the simple answer to your question is a qualified 'yes'.

In reply to pdufus:

Here's one from the Frankie Boyle school of ice belaying.

Pick out screws that belong to your Second. Place them in the existing holes. Let your piss run down the ice and over the ice screws. By the time you have brought up your Second, the screws will be bomb-proof and ready for you to run out a lead above them. Even if your Second twigs to what the yellow ice is, they are his screws, so he won't leave them behind.