/ NEWS: 8 Year Old Kids Cranking F8a and Font 8A

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UKC News - on 12 Apr 2010
[Ashima Shiraishi, 2 kb]8 year old Italian climber Tito Traversa has just ticked his first F8a sport route.

Over in the USA, 8 year old climber Ashima Shiraishi has climbed the classic V10/Font 7C+ Power of Silence at Hueco Tanks.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=52871

alan_davies - on 12 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News: Holy crap i've seen it all now..

Anyone wanna buy a rack!?!

Awesome effort, makes you wonder what these kids might be capable of when they hit 16?!?
redcal - on 12 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:Incredible achievments but makes you wonder about the physiology of these kids and how pushing that hard so young is going to affect their growth etc in later life.
bouldery bits - on 12 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

if your second name is "Traversa" does it give you an unfair advantage?
Blue Straggler - on 12 Apr 2010
In reply to bouldery bits:

Ask Julie-Ann Clyma!
t_stork - on 12 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News: Little buggers, i'm giving up.
AlistairB - on 12 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News: It's interesting but a disturbing trend if you ask me. There's a reason the over 16 age limit was introduced in gymnastics, I dunno so much for boys but there's lots of unpleasant things happen from pushing young female atheletes too hard including delayed puberty (which is good from a power/weight point of view like in gymnastics and climbing but bad from a life point of view). I think that so long as these kids are just out there doing what they love then it's fantastic but I really hope they're not being pushed into it or training excessivley rather than just climbing. I spoke to one of the girls on the GB team who had a fairly terrible injury list as a result of being pushed too hard as a kid, it's tragic.
Ackbar - on 12 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News: Climbing is quite a natural sport for kids, but I think making a website for an 8 year old smacks of exploitation to me.
Quarryboy - on 12 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News: I don't understand how people as young as 8 can physically climb F8a I mean you can have the best technique ever and be pretty light but in reality surly to climb above f7a you need a relative degree of high finger strength and a decent reach ?!?!?!?!?
Sean Kelly - on 12 Apr 2010
In reply to redcal: My thoughts as well. What about real childhood experiences?
Kevster - on 12 Apr 2010
In reply to Sean Kelly:
I used to solo the smaller cliffs around swanage when on holiday as a kid, there are now bolts & routes up some of them.
Real childhood experiences? not a huge amount different, except these nippers are doing routes hugely more difficult. I wish i'd had the opportunity...
Many kids do sport at highly intense levels, football, dance, gymnastics, martial arts, the list is long.
Though exploitation and projection are basically bad parenting/supervision.

Good luck to them! K
Serpico on 12 Apr 2010 - 78.144.72.196 whois?
In reply to Sean Kelly:
> (In reply to redcal) My thoughts as well. What about real childhood experiences?

Exactly, he should be sat in his bedroom playing video games.

JJL - on 12 Apr 2010
In reply to AlistairB:

I agree with that. Climbing for very young kids has two main areas of concern:
- tight rockboots can and do result in hammer toes. I was read the riot act about this by my brother (a chiropodist) when I started taking my kids out. Actually I think very few people climb hard enough to justify painfully tight boots.
- harder routes often require a greater amount of small-edge crimping. This can be harmful to developing joints.

Set against that, joints like to be worked under load and the urge to climb is strong in many small kids - trees etc. However, the "holds" on trees tend to be open-handed (round branches) rather than crimped. I suppose it's all a question of degree and intensity.

Lucas - on 12 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

Maybe their fingers are smaller therefore the holds are bigger therefore they don't require as much strength??

Just a theory.

If it is the case however i think we should start under 10 grading system!!!
James Oswald - on 12 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:
Very very impressive! But the video seemed a little surreal.
How hard was Ondra climbing at 8?
James
EZ on 12 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

Is there a president set regarding children climbing hard affecting their bone development? I wonder if there is a risk of lasting damage.

I work in engineering and young people are not allowed to use hammer action pneumatics because of bone development becoming inhibited of it's normal course.

Grim - on 12 Apr 2010
In reply to Lucas:

> If it is the case however i think we should start under 10 grading system!!!

Count me in... grown-up grading is just too hard

AlistairB - on 13 Apr 2010
In reply to Ackbar:
> (In reply to UKC News) Climbing is quite a natural sport for kids, but I think making a website for an 8 year old smacks of exploitation to me.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of that either. Still, I do wish I had the chance to start earlier, my parents were always supportive, never pushy but we just simply didn't have any climbers in the family.
Morgan Woods - on 13 Apr 2010
In reply to Ackbar:
> (In reply to UKC News) Climbing is quite a natural sport for kids, but I think making a website for an 8 year old smacks of exploitation to me.

not sure i agree but someone does seem to be projecting their love of Deep Purple via the website.
Jody - on 13 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

I don't think there is any suggestion of exploitation here, the parents don't seem to be living off the backs of their kids and they seem to be enjoying it. Plus, every man and his dog seems to have a website/blog.

Also, there is no suggestion that the kids are(over)training, it looks like they are being as active and energetic as most 8 year olds.

I think the uneasiness comes from seeing the very young doing exceptionally well (or better) at a sport that at lot of older folks have dedicated their life too. Based on this thread it seems that this uneasiness is particularly strong in men
Jim Hamilton - on 13 Apr 2010
In reply to Jody:

How do you know that the kids haven't been over-training ?. I wouldn't have thought that this level of climbing comes from just natural ability, and a laissez-faire attitude parents usually have to the amount of time children want to spend at an activity. Presumably there would have been a lot of intensive training - just as young gymnasts mentioned above, swimmers etc. Does Dad ? shouting in the background sort of suggest that, or was it just typical American enthusiasm ?

There is no uneasiness on account of my lack of ability/dedication, but i will show the video to my eight year old daughter and tell her to buck her ideas up when next down the climbing wall.
Quarryboy - on 13 Apr 2010
In reply to James Oswald: I don't know about 8 but I heard he onsighted f8a+ at 11
Toby S - on 13 Apr 2010
In reply to Jim Hamilton:
> (In reply to Jody)

>
> There is no uneasiness on account of my lack of ability/dedication, but i will show the video to my eight year old daughter and tell her to buck her ideas up when next down the climbing wall.

I think I'll do the same. The lazy wee besom is clearly not trying hard enough :o)
Jody - on 13 Apr 2010
In reply to Jim Hamilton:

I said there was 'no suggestion of over training' (of course 'training' and 'over training' are not concrete terms). Perhaps you could find some evidence rather than just speculating?

They obviously climb a lot, but as mentioned before 8 year old's are (and should be) pretty energetic: I guess its just a matter of where that energy is directed (by themselves, friends, and parents etc).

Climbers starting young is not a new thing, I remember reading about Tommy Caldwell belaying his dad on some long and tough trad lines at a young age. I am sure there are many more historical examples. Perhaps what has changed is the focus on sports climbing and grades.
AlistairB - on 13 Apr 2010
In reply to Jody:
> I think the uneasiness comes from seeing the very young doing exceptionally well (or better) at a sport that at lot of older folks have dedicated their life too. Based on this thread it seems that this uneasiness is particularly strong in men

Someone just had to say it didn't they, way to ruin a sensible discussion. Nobody wants to piss on the kids bonfires, I just hope we don't end up like gymnastics, embroilled in scandal over the explotation of young atheletes. The physical peak of female atheletes for pure strength to weight activities is around the point of adolescence, hence the low retirement age of female gymnasts. In order to exploit that peak, coaches pushed harder and harder younger and younger and many female gymnasts as a result retire with an enourmous catalogue of injuries that will be with them for the rest of their lives. Particularly disturbing is how the natural progression of puberty is disturbed.

Now, I climb at the Westway a lot and they actually take a very sensible approach (they have a lot of youngish and very talented girls on their squad). The youngsters boulder only once a month (or something similarly infrequent) and there is no specific training, just lots of climbing. And that's healthy, for sure. But these girls are operating at maybe high 6s to low 7s. I just worry that v10 and 8a are not natural for 8 year olds because they require exceptional finger strength. However, if these kids can genuinley just climb a couple of times a week for fun and go on to climb that hard, more power to them. I just don't want to see a culture of exploitation of young atheletes develop like was prevelant in gymnastics until the rule changes.

And Jody, how many 8 year olds do you know who made their own professional website? I'm sorry, I refuse to buy that.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Jody - on 16 Apr 2010
In reply to AlistairB:

I am totally against young kids training to point that negatively affects their physical and/or mental health. However, I thought it was interesting how the intial thread responses seemed to assume or worry that the kids were being over-trained (i.e. expiolated) based only on the high grades they were achieving and the fact that one of the kids had a website.

"if these kids can genuinley just climb a couple of times a week for fun and go on to climb that hard, more power to them"

Can they not have fun climbing more than just a couple of times week?

"made their own professional website?"

I didnt see the site asking for money, so what is professional? He is obviously climbing well as has a website promoting the fact. Even if the website's aim is attract free gear from sponsors I dont see anything wrong (or professional) with that.

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