/ NEW REVIEW: FIRST LOOK WITH VIDEO: The Petzl Ange: a new type of karabiner

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[Petzl Ange, 2 kb]Petzl haven't changed the design of their flagship karabiner/quickdraw since 1992 but are now set to make climbers eyes open wide with the introduction this September of new model to compliment the Spirit, called the Ange.

Mick Ryan takes a look (with video).

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=2593

Hardonicus - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC Gear:

I'm not sure what this product is bringing to the table.

It claims to solve the spring tension issue of cheap wiregates? Why not buy a good wirgate?

It is not particularly light compared to the lightest wiregates.

I fail to see how the gate opening can be any more than a wiregate, surely it must be less, as it is limited by the diameter of the 'blob' on the top.
Daniel Heath - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC Gear:

That's very different, havn't seen anything like it.

Small 28g 20KN
Large 34g 23KN

So it's still heavier than the Phantom and CAMP Nano, as well as not being as strong as the Phantom.

Looks good though, who's going to buy one?
LastBoyScout on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to DHeath4:
>
> Looks good though, who's going to buy one?

Shouldn't that be:

Looks good, though who's going to buy one?
Beaker - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC Gear:

Helps if you know some context...

Petzl have never done a wiregate before because they refused to put a hook nose on a biner, as is required by a normal wiregate.

By using the "post" design rather than the "paper-clip", they get the advantages of keylock design but with a lighter weight gate.
mike kann - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to Beaker: DMM Shield? It's only been out for near on a decade...
Big Sender - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC Gear: Are these just for sport climbing, or could I use these for trad too? Not sure it's worth it, petzl arent known for their trad gear.


-BS
Michael Ryan - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to Big Sender:
> (In reply to UKC Gear) Are these just for sport climbing, or could I use these for trad too? Not sure it's worth it, petzl arent known for their trad gear.

Petzl are very well known for the trad gear.

Adam Long - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Really Mick? If I wanted some trad protection, what could Petzl sell me?
Beaker - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to mike kann:

DMM holds the patent on wirelocks. The Ange design is all Petzl :)
Michael Ryan - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to Adam Long:

Petzl do lots of gear that is used for trad climbing... dufus!
mike kann - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to Beaker: What I mean't though is that its not really much that's new is it? It's a keylock wiregate with a traditional spring gate mechanism... i.e. the springs mechanism could still get choked with ice and not work. Is it really an advance? Maybe for Petzl, but not for anybody else IMHO...
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
> (In reply to Adam Long)
>
> Petzl do lots of gear that is used for trad climbing... dufus!

Phew - for a minute there I thought my harness was just for looks!
deepsoup - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

They make lots of gear that can be used for trad climbing, but trad climbing isn't what they make it for.

They make no trad pro, no wires, no cams, not even a nut key.
And why should they? They're arguably the best company in the world at doing what they do, specialising a several different things - none of which is trad.

Dufus indeed.
mike kann - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to deepsoup: Hang on a second, Ice climbing gear isn't trad? That's a new one to me... pitons? Alpine harnesses, trad harnesses? Hmmm.
Michael Ryan - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to deepsoup:

Petzl make lots of gear that is used for traditional climbing: from UK single/multi pitch trad climbing to US style Big Walls to Mountaineering/Alpinism.

And yes, they also make gear that is used almost exclusively for sport climbing.
Hardonicus - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Do they make anything for convenience climbing?
deepsoup - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to mike kann:
> (In reply to deepsoup) Hang on a second, Ice climbing gear isn't trad? That's a new one to me...

Not really what Petzl is best known for though is it? They acquired that when they bought out Charlet Moser.

Their origins are in caving, that's what they're best known for and they're (rightly) proud of it. Not saying they don't make trad gear (though clearly they don't make any nuts), its just not what they're "very well known" for.
Beaker - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to mike kann:

You can say the same about all evolutions in climbing equipment design - it's an incremental improvement rather than a revolutionary leap. I personally think the design has merit for certain scenarios.
deepsoup - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
> And yes, they also make gear that is used almost exclusively for sport climbing.

And a lot more gear thats used almost exclusively for caving (and roped access, which is really just a kind of industrial caving anyway).
Caving is the thing I most associate with the name 'Petzl', since that's where their origins lie and its the thing they do arguably better than any other company in the world.
mike kann - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to deepsoup: Yeah, but they have produced classics since then - the Nomic springs to mind as a product which is held in very high esteem, the Dart and Dartwins are another... yes they build on the Charlet heritage but it is still now part of Petzls offering... they are pretty good at it too and it is one of the many things they are well known for...
Adam Long - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
> (In reply to deepsoup)
>
> Petzl make lots of gear that is used for traditional climbing: from UK single/multi pitch trad climbing to US style Big Walls to Mountaineering/Alpinism.
>
> And yes, they also make gear that is used almost exclusively for sport climbing.

But I couldn't climb a trad route, or a big wall, just with Petzl gear.

Nice sidestepping of my question. Election fever must be catching...
mike kann - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to Adam Long: You couldn't climb many big walls just with DMM gear.
ice.solo - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC Gear:

yeah, petzl are great - but this thing aint no big deal.
as marketing always is, the next model will be the one we want, so hold back your cash till then.
i know i will play with one in the shop but wont buy it.
surprised theres not been a hubbub with the danger for ropes cutting if it crossloads, like there was when wiregates first came out.

petzl for trad?
dunno.
theres half a dozen other companies id think of first.
ice yes, canyoning/caving/access & rescue yes, alpine yes - but trad? itd be like saying black diamond for skateboarding because they make a few hoodies and beanies.
yeah but nah.

pointless debate as it is.
Sean_J - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC Gear: Funny you should imply that by buying cheapo wiregates you might be comprimising your own safety - but you go on to effectively exclude DMM wiregate biners from this by mentioning their snazzy testing machine and so on. Quite suprising, I wouldn't have thought that any of the other top manufacturers (WC, BD?) are trailing DMM by a country mile in terms of QA. What made you pick DMM out as an example?

I can tell you that I have owned quite a few DMM prowires over the years (probably about 100, most of which I still have), and i've got a few that now have a pretty rubbish spring action on them, through normal use over several years. I've also had one permanently deform in a fall when the gate fluttered open. I'm not slating the prowire or DMM, I think that it's an excellent krab by a good company, but I do think it is misleading that you big up DMM so much when their products are just as susceptible to wear and tear as any of the other decent manufacturers.
Duncan Campbell - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC Gear: Are you sure its cold-forged mick???
Michael Ryan - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to dunkymonkey17:

I asked that specifically and was told yes.
flaneur - on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to Sean_J:

> (In reply to UKC Gear) Funny you should imply that by buying cheapo wiregates you might be comprimising your own safety - ...

It's a classic example of FUD ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt ) or 'the appeal to fear'. Classic in that it offers no objective reason why "cheapo" wiregates might be safety-compromised, no data on accidents involving "cheapo" wiregates, just vague statements like "Some budget karabiners are notorious for having poor quality wire gates..." to sow the seeds of doubt. It specifically exonerates DMM presumably because they spend a decent amount of money on UKC advertising.

Compared to the WC Helium, the Ange is slightly heavier, has a narrower gate opening, is similarly strong and costs more. The only way they are going to sell any is by putting doubt into peoples minds about wiregates in general. Shabby tactics if you ask me.
HighNoonSoon on 19 Apr 2010 - 87-194-150-239.bethere.co.uk
In reply to UKC Gear:

Looks like an expensive academic exercise in patent avoidance! I'm sure it'll be nicely made but really... and that price!

Good luck to them, Petzl make some great products but they really seem to have missed the essential beauty of the wiregate here. Simplicity.
stewieatb on 19 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC Gear: So, they'll freeze up in winter, they're weak for their weight, overcomplicated, and expensive. What a brilliant bit of kit. Well done Petzl, you've missed the whole point of a wiregate karabiner.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Andy Cairns on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC Gear: "If you are paying bottom dollar for cheap karabiners, there's a reason and you could be putting yourself at risk."

What constitutes a "cheap" karabiner, anyway? I've been using BD Neutrinos since they came out several years ago, basically the same weight as the large Ange, slightly smaller, slightly stronger, really good gate action with absolutely no deterioration over their lifetime. A brilliant karabiner IMHO, and you can currently get a pack of 6 for 40, which at 6.66 each (two-thirds the price of a large Ange), presumably makes the "cheap"?? So what's the reason in this case? Think I'll continue to shop carefully, and get quality gear at bottom dollar.

Cheers
Andy
In reply to Andy Cairns:

> What constitutes a "cheap" karabiner, anyway?

I would say that badly designed would be a better term than cheap. Neutrinos were built from the ground up as a wire gate. Other wiregate models were older style krabs with the plain gates removed and wiregates put on instead. The Neutrinos are cheap because they are an old design now, but it doesn't stop them being bloody brilliant little krabs as long as you don't mind the smaller size.
LastBoyScout on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC Gear:

Frankly, I thought that was a very badly written article.

And yes, that statement is no more vague than several of the claims made in the article.
Andy Cairns on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to TobyA:
> (In reply to Andy Cairns)

The Neutrinos are cheap because they are an old design now

Good grief! You'll be suggesting next that I might want to consider replacing the Clog D-shaped krabs I bought in the seconds bin at one of the BMC Buxton dos in the Seventies! (weight - about half a hundredweight, gate opening - about 11.5mm, which if nothing else is an excellent way to learn to avoid the dreaded fumbleclip!)

Cheers
Andy
hermanthegerman - on 06 May 2010
In reply to UKC Gear:

A lot of people are writing these off as not great for trad and only useful for sport but i wouldn't use them for sport climbing; they won't work with a clip stick!

Just a thought....

Tom

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