/ NEW REVIEW: FIRST LOOK WITH VIDEO: The Petzl Ange: a new type of karabiner
Mick Ryan takes a look (with video).
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=2593
I'm not sure what this product is bringing to the table.
It claims to solve the spring tension issue of cheap wiregates? Why not buy a good wirgate?
It is not particularly light compared to the lightest wiregates.
I fail to see how the gate opening can be any more than a wiregate, surely it must be less, as it is limited by the diameter of the 'blob' on the top.
That's very different, havn't seen anything like it.
Small 28g 20KN
Large 34g 23KN
So it's still heavier than the Phantom and CAMP Nano, as well as not being as strong as the Phantom.
Looks good though, who's going to buy one?
> Looks good though, who's going to buy one?
Shouldn't that be:
Looks good, though who's going to buy one?
Helps if you know some context...
Petzl have never done a wiregate before because they refused to put a hook nose on a biner, as is required by a normal wiregate.
By using the "post" design rather than the "paper-clip", they get the advantages of keylock design but with a lighter weight gate.
Petzl are very well known for the trad gear.
Really Mick? If I wanted some trad protection, what could Petzl sell me?
DMM holds the patent on wirelocks. The Ange design is all Petzl :)
Petzl do lots of gear that is used for trad climbing... dufus!
> Petzl do lots of gear that is used for trad climbing... dufus!
Phew - for a minute there I thought my harness was just for looks!
They make lots of gear that can be used for trad climbing, but trad climbing isn't what they make it for.
They make no trad pro, no wires, no cams, not even a nut key.
And why should they? They're arguably the best company in the world at doing what they do, specialising a several different things - none of which is trad.
Petzl make lots of gear that is used for traditional climbing: from UK single/multi pitch trad climbing to US style Big Walls to Mountaineering/Alpinism.
And yes, they also make gear that is used almost exclusively for sport climbing.
Do they make anything for convenience climbing?
Not really what Petzl is best known for though is it? They acquired that when they bought out Charlet Moser.
Their origins are in caving, that's what they're best known for and they're (rightly) proud of it. Not saying they don't make trad gear (though clearly they don't make any nuts), its just not what they're "very well known" for.
You can say the same about all evolutions in climbing equipment design - it's an incremental improvement rather than a revolutionary leap. I personally think the design has merit for certain scenarios.
And a lot more gear thats used almost exclusively for caving (and roped access, which is really just a kind of industrial caving anyway).
Caving is the thing I most associate with the name 'Petzl', since that's where their origins lie and its the thing they do arguably better than any other company in the world.
> Petzl make lots of gear that is used for traditional climbing: from UK single/multi pitch trad climbing to US style Big Walls to Mountaineering/Alpinism.
> And yes, they also make gear that is used almost exclusively for sport climbing.
But I couldn't climb a trad route, or a big wall, just with Petzl gear.
Nice sidestepping of my question. Election fever must be catching...
yeah, petzl are great - but this thing aint no big deal.
as marketing always is, the next model will be the one we want, so hold back your cash till then.
i know i will play with one in the shop but wont buy it.
surprised theres not been a hubbub with the danger for ropes cutting if it crossloads, like there was when wiregates first came out.
petzl for trad?
theres half a dozen other companies id think of first.
ice yes, canyoning/caving/access & rescue yes, alpine yes - but trad? itd be like saying black diamond for skateboarding because they make a few hoodies and beanies.
yeah but nah.
pointless debate as it is.
I can tell you that I have owned quite a few DMM prowires over the years (probably about 100, most of which I still have), and i've got a few that now have a pretty rubbish spring action on them, through normal use over several years. I've also had one permanently deform in a fall when the gate fluttered open. I'm not slating the prowire or DMM, I think that it's an excellent krab by a good company, but I do think it is misleading that you big up DMM so much when their products are just as susceptible to wear and tear as any of the other decent manufacturers.
I asked that specifically and was told yes.
It's a classic example of FUD ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt ) or 'the appeal to fear'. Classic in that it offers no objective reason why "cheapo" wiregates might be safety-compromised, no data on accidents involving "cheapo" wiregates, just vague statements like "Some budget karabiners are notorious for having poor quality wire gates..." to sow the seeds of doubt. It specifically exonerates DMM presumably because they spend a decent amount of money on UKC advertising.
Compared to the WC Helium, the Ange is slightly heavier, has a narrower gate opening, is similarly strong and costs more. The only way they are going to sell any is by putting doubt into peoples minds about wiregates in general. Shabby tactics if you ask me.
Looks like an expensive academic exercise in patent avoidance! I'm sure it'll be nicely made but really... and that price!
Good luck to them, Petzl make some great products but they really seem to have missed the essential beauty of the wiregate here. Simplicity.
What constitutes a "cheap" karabiner, anyway? I've been using BD Neutrinos since they came out several years ago, basically the same weight as the large Ange, slightly smaller, slightly stronger, really good gate action with absolutely no deterioration over their lifetime. A brilliant karabiner IMHO, and you can currently get a pack of 6 for £40, which at £6.66 each (two-thirds the price of a large Ange), presumably makes the "cheap"?? So what's the reason in this case? Think I'll continue to shop carefully, and get quality gear at bottom dollar.
I would say that badly designed would be a better term than cheap. Neutrinos were built from the ground up as a wire gate. Other wiregate models were older style krabs with the plain gates removed and wiregates put on instead. The Neutrinos are cheap because they are an old design now, but it doesn't stop them being bloody brilliant little krabs as long as you don't mind the smaller size.
Frankly, I thought that was a very badly written article.
And yes, that statement is no more vague than several of the claims made in the article.
The Neutrinos are cheap because they are an old design now
Good grief! You'll be suggesting next that I might want to consider replacing the Clog D-shaped krabs I bought in the seconds bin at one of the BMC Buxton dos in the Seventies! (weight - about half a hundredweight, gate opening - about 11.5mm, which if nothing else is an excellent way to learn to avoid the dreaded fumbleclip!)
A lot of people are writing these off as not great for trad and only useful for sport but i wouldn't use them for sport climbing; they won't work with a clip stick!
Just a thought....
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