/ NEWS: VIDEO: Mammut Team Hit The Grit

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UKC News - on 20 Apr 2010
[Mammut Video - Peak 2010, 2 kb]The Mammut Climbing Team are in the Peak District and have been active on some hard gritstone routes.

Interestingly the team's ticklist corresponds almost exactly to a list of routes published in the UKC Forums that have been covered in large chalk tick-marks.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=53014

mark s - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News: how long till mammut respond to this?
Offwidth - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News: The other fun accusation is preplaced runners on London Wall... very dreamy.
Owen W-G - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to mark s:

Some high tech camera work, not sure how they achieved it.

eg on 37 seconds you can see the shadow of some kind of UFO. Maybe they hired some drones for the filming?
metal arms on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to Owen W-G:

It's a funky heli-cam...

See the Works website
Derbyshire Ben on 20 Apr 2010 - host86-146-83-28.range86-146.btcentralplus.com
In reply to Owen W-G:

>Maybe they hired some drones for the filming?

They did - check the website.
climbersion on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

Hmmm pre-placed runners on many routes (London wall and Quietus what heros) and tick marks all over the place.

What a great way to publicise your brand......come back team America!
M0nkey - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

The trailer looks cool doesn't it. those camera angles look brilliant. From the looks of things it looks like there is a good variety of routes too - i.e. they didn't just do the hardest lines. I always like to see a wide range of grades in a climbing movie.

Don't really care about the tick marks.
Jonny2vests - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to Offwidth:
> (In reply to UKC News) The other fun accusation is preplaced runners on London Wall... very dreamy.

Yeah, especially when they use the term 'uber wads'!
gethin_allen on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:
the amount of chalk on those routes does appear to take the piss, they may as well have gone to Dover. I've no idea if this is necessary to make the routes climbable as i don't climb at that grade and probably never will but it looks terrible. I hope they realise this and make a dam good effort of cleaning the place up.
Jonny2vests - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to climbersion:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> Hmmm pre-placed runners on many routes (London wall and Quietus what heros) and tick marks all over the place.

Not Quietus, looks like it might be Zen Boy (E7 6c). Don't know why it gets such a serious grade, looks quite amenable from the vid.

Jimbo C - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

I saw massive tick marks all over Partheon Shot on 10th April. Don't know who it was but it looked piss poor.

I don't recall seeing silly amounts of chalk when Seb Grieve did the 2nd ascent for Hard Grit.
Franco Cookson on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to Jimbo C:

Is it really such a huge issue?
Offwidth - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to F Manker:

If its true, yes. The ticks marks in themselves are less so but that a sponsored group of talents on a funded trip should breach local ethics in this way is prety bad. The ethics are there for good reasons from aesthetics through spoiling the experience for others to, in extremis, affecting access.
Ramon Marin - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to climbersion:

Didn't Gaz Parry just climbed an E9 with pre-placed gear? Is it not OK on grit? Just genuinely asking
Michael Ryan - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to Offwidth:

I blame guidebooks, those who author and edit them, and THE MEDIA!
Hardonicus - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to Offwidth:

Is it any worse than the English slapping chalk all over Font?
Adam Long - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to jonny2vests:
> (In reply to climbersion)
> [...]
>
> Not Quietus, looks like it might be Zen Boy (E7 6c). Don't know why it gets such a serious grade, looks quite amenable from the vid.

At 0:27? Its clearly Quietus. Zen Boy goes up the arete.
lithos on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to Offwidth:

hardly an accusation see 43 s in looks like a blue cam
TimS on 20 Apr 2010 - host217-34-43-237.in-addr.btopenworld.com
In reply to UKC News: The orange ropes look great next to the grit and the copter shots look amazing!
Jonny2vests - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to Adam Long:
> (In reply to jonny2vests)
> [...]
>
> At 0:27? Its clearly Quietus. Zen Boy goes up the arete.

Oh yeah. I thought we were looking at the left side of the overhang. That's going to knacker a few onsights!

Offwidth - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

I think the BMC, Rockfax and Vertebrate in their guidebooks do a very good job in promoting good ethics on grit. As for the media, it depends, but most seem to me to support good ethics most of the time.
irish paul - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News: Any chance we can have some uber-wads coming over and not climbing on grit? Especially if they can get footage of this of quality of routes in N.Wales, Pembroke, Scotland. Stood beneath 'The Big Issue' at the weekend wondering how on earth you climb it on trad, someone make a video of that!
Jonny2vests - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to ramon marin martinez:
> (In reply to climbersion)
>
> Didn't Gaz Parry just climbed an E9 with pre-placed gear? Is it not OK on grit? Just genuinely asking

There's nothing 'wrong' with it on any rock type. There are various styles of lead ethically speaking, some regarded higher achievements than others.

Pre-placing gear on an E2 though seems a tad silly for an 'Uber-wad'; especially when the gear is not hard to place on lead. And half the challenge of London Wall (E5) is placing the gear; turning it into a clip up... well, my mum could do that. ish.

Doesn't really compare to Gaz Parry and The Big Issue.
Jonny2vests - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to irish paul:

I concur. But to a sponsor, Gritstone has sex appeal cos its so rare and bold and historic yadda yadda. Have you seen under-developed? Brilliant film about tradding in Fairhead.
irish paul - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to jonny2vests: yeah I have and I agree it was one of the best films I've seen of late [it and onsight!]. I went to school with a couple of the guys in it as well. I find it a bit depressing that a video someone climbing Parthian Shot [fabulous line!] no longer particularly excites me, its just been done so often [and ground up, by headtorch nearly if I remember!]
snoop6060 - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to ramon marin martinez:
> (In reply to climbersion)
>
> Didn't Gaz Parry just climbed an E9 with pre-placed gear? Is it not OK on grit? Just genuinely asking

london wall is E5, not E9. Preplaced gear on a route like LW is odd for a pro. Especially given the fact that Alex Honnald soloed the route onsight.
Graeme Alderson on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News: Check out the past Pro Team films on the Mammut website. The DWS one is good
Ackbar - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News: Whilst leaving the rock in this state is obviously not on, I'd like to point out that this is nothing new and I have often seen routes like braille trail and london wall plastered in chalk.
In reply to Ackbar:
> (In reply to UKC News) Whilst leaving the rock in this state is obviously not on, I'd like to point out that this is nothing new and I have often seen routes like braille trail and london wall plastered in chalk.

The point is that sponsored climbers act as role models and therefore influence behaviour.
Graeme Alderson on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to Tom Briggs - Jagged Globe: According to the Mammut blog they are going to get someone to clean it up
murdster on 20 Apr 2010 - cpc2-gate9-2-0-cust510.gate.cable.virginmedia.com
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

...after the horse has bolted.
Kid Spatula - on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

Is it wrong that I am utterly failing to care? At all? Not even a tiny bit?
gabriel_m on 20 Apr 2010
In reply to Kid Spatula:
Then don't join the discussion(?).

Amusingly found on the Mammut brand news page:
The TOPtoTOP expedition supported by Mammut has set itself the long-term goal of freeing the world from unnecessary waste. During its seven-year commitment, the Schwörer family from Switzerland has already cleared up 20,000 kg of waste all over the world.

Wonder if they'll be coming to clean up Burbage so you can't see every hold on every 'Hard Grit' route from the car park. I personally witnessed one of the least stylish ascents ever, when one of them was determined to get Offspring done for the cameras. In fact I didn't stay long enough to watch him do it.
the baron on 21 Apr 2010 - cpc3-shef10-0-0-cust73.barn.cable.virginmedia.com
Were they told about grit ethics by the locals? That would've helped.
Jonny2vests - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to the baron:
> Were they told about grit ethics by the locals? That would've helped.

Instead of them asking or knowing something about the venue? No, it's their trip, the burden is theirs. It's not like its a secret or anything and why would people assume they didn't already know?

jeffsheard on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to the baron:

Did they ask? Maybe the onus was on them as visitors?

I'm not particularly arsed about the ethics, most of the people enjoying the Burbage valley aren't climbers, and frankly, it looks shit when it's blathered in chalk.

Sod the ethics, it's basic respect.
Alex Messenger, BMC - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to jeffsheard:

We were there n sat, it looked a right mess. PS. I'm short of a prize letter for this issue's Summit letters page. So if anyone fancies a rant...it's summit@thebmc.co.uk. Send a pic in too.

Cheers

Alex.
timjones - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Alex Messenger, BMC:
> (In reply to jeffsheard)
>
> We were there n sat, it looked a right mess. PS. I'm short of a prize letter for this issue's Summit letters page. So if anyone fancies a rant...it's summit@thebmc.co.uk. Send a pic in too.
>
> Cheers
>
> Alex.

It's good to know that the BMC subscribes to good honest journalism standards. Are all your prize letters solicited in this manner?

Quiddity - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to jeffsheard:

on the subject of 'bloody sponsored heroes... coming here, covering our boulders in chalk...'

can I widen the debate and refer you to Neil Gresham's Masterclass in the current issue of Climber. Recommending liberal use of donkey lines/tick marks in Font accompanied by 'how-to' photos and no mention of either cleaning up or the local ethic. Those boulders look a bit of a mess too.

No comment about it on here. Maybe 'we' Brits should get our own house in order before we come across too self-righteously? Or is it ok when it's someone else's boulders, but when it's in our own back garden and it's foreign climbers, get the pitchforks and torches out?
ads.ukclimbing.com
Alex Messenger, BMC - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to timjones:

I'm not sure what your issue is. Shall I just make one up, would you prefer that? Why don't you write one - you could win a nice rucsack.
ERU - on 21 Apr 2010
Just to add to the 'debate' but has anyone else noticed that Mammut have been deleting the negative comments from their 'You Tube' page? Now at 4000 views and only 3 comments on it. What are they not proud of exactly? Surely someone would have commented within the team that they should be removed?
Personally I think Mammut has destroyed any credibility it had in the UK for the foreseeable future ...
Michael Ryan - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Alex Messenger, BMC:

I'm writing you a letter now. Is it ok if it comes in by email?

Cheers

one of your biggest fans
Jody - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

Tick marks aside, I thought the trailer was a bit naff. The camera work seemed a little over the top for a day out on grit (perhaps it would have been better suited for some larger walls). Especially as it showed routes that have been filmed before, often with them being climbed in 'better' (i.e. more interesting to watch) style.
jon on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Jody:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> Tick marks aside, I thought the trailer was a bit naff. The camera work seemed a little over the top for a day out on grit (perhaps it would have been better suited for some larger walls).

On the contrary, I thought it was the best bit of filming I've seen. I agree I'd like to see it used on bigger crags.
Michael Ryan - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to ERU:

Jeez. The mammut climbers are young and didn't know any better. But now they do. A useful learning experience for them. Although they did have a Mr Dawes with them some of the time!

I believe the tick marks are being cleaned off and a donation to the bmc s crag care fund is being made. Be good if they could issue a statement to.

There's tick marks all over the Peaks and at many bouldering and climbing areas in the Uk. Maybe we should set up a gallery to showcase them.

Maybe some good will come of this, maybe we should all use chalk a little sparingly.

Mick
Jody - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to jon:

It offered interesting perspectives, but it just struck me as style over content.

Graeme Alderson on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Alex Messenger, BMC: I too am writing you a letter, is it ok if it comes via pigeon

Graeme

Your biggest fan
jon on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Jody:
> (In reply to jon)
>
> but it just struck me as style over content.

But as I understand it, it was a trailer for a longer film. I'm no fan of grit or bouldering, but I'd love to see the longer film. Perhaps Brit film makers could take note of the methods used.

Alex Messenger, BMC - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

No, we don't like email. It's too modern. Quills only.
timjones - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Alex Messenger, BMC:
> (In reply to timjones)
>
> I'm not sure what your issue is. Shall I just make one up, would you prefer that? Why don't you write one - you could win a nice rucsack.

Your post appears to be an attempt to solicit a letter on a specific subject by offering the prize to whoever writes that letter. Are you honestly saying that you can't understand why your readers may have an issue with this?
Michael Ryan - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
> (In reply to Alex Messenger, BMC) I too am writing you a letter, is it ok if it comes via pigeon
>
> Graeme
>
> Your biggest fan

No I am.

Just bought a quil.

Dave Foster - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Alex Messenger, BMC:
I'm... ugh... sending... ugh... you... ugh... a semaphore... ugh... now... ugh... Alex.
Jody - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to jon:

You are right, one should wait before judging the whole film. However, The aim of the trailer is to entice me to see the 'bigger picture', and thus usually has the best bits in it. Based on the trailer, I am not motivated to seek the film out.

The camera work was flashy, but the content left me cold. Combined, the flashy camera work and poor content made it seem shallow. I guess in my mind grit climbing is understated and...erm..gritty, the trailer was very slick and showed the climbing to be a bit too convenient.

kroolis77 on 21 Apr 2010 - cpc8-slam5-2-0-cust3.know.cable.virginmedia.com
In reply to jeffsheard: I love the look of fresh chalk on rock "in the morning"
Alex Messenger, BMC - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to timjones:

It was just an opportunistic plug for our letters page. It'd have to be a good letter to win the prize, it wouldn't automatically win anything, or even get published.




gabriel_m on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:
A quick note to all those excited by the helicopter camera footage. One of the reason's it feels a little bit soul-less is because they couldn't record sound, because the propellers are too loud.

Which also made me think about something which no one else seemed to mention. Although perhaps a very minor point, it should be said that flying that loud machine around the Peak District during lambing season was probably inappropriate.
Graeme Alderson on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to gabriel_m: No one has mentioned the noise because it isn't very loud. I've seen/heard it in action, seen the raw footage from the Works and talked to the climbers who have been filmed by it.

It isn't very loud but the noise recorded on the camera (which is 6 inches from the rotors) is too much to allow you to record a soundtrack
ml706 - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

And I hope it wasn't being flown after the volcano eruption!
In reply to gabriel_m:

I though the 'copter footage was great, real showing the grit from a different perspective. Looking forwards to the full thing.

Chris
ads.ukclimbing.com
Kipper - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Alex Messenger, BMC:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> No, we don't like email. It's too modern. Quills only.

Would green ink be acceptable/appropriate?

gabriel_m on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
> (In reply to gabriel_m) No one has mentioned the noise because it isn't very loud.

We'll have to agree to differ.
In reply to gabriel_m:

Your not assuming it was a real, full-sized jellycopter are you?


Chris
Michael Ryan - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to gabriel_m:
> (In reply to Graeme Alderson)
> [...]
>
> We'll have to agree to differ.

The little toy helicopter paused no threat to lambing sheep - and I've delivered many hundreds of lambs.

The Euros were the spawn of satan though and may run off with your wife/children/parents and eat them ; o )

Mac Ghille Aindrais - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

Little climbing advert people.

Cute

The sexy and fashionable climber dollar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo

That's a good dollar.
Michael Ryan - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Mac Ghille Aindrais:

I'm in advertising.

I like Bill Hicks. Seen that video many times.

Should I kill myself?

If I do will you be able to post on here.

Am I the ruiner of all things good?

Will there be daily news at UKC, Scottish winter reports, the crag database, weekly articles, the FS forums, a place for people to exrpess themselves and share their photos: all things UKC is funded by advertising.

The UKC team work hard on this site.

Do you not want UKC to exist? Because that is what you are saying.
Mac Ghille Aindrais - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

That's what I like about you Mick.

You can take a good joke.

Tyler - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

> According to the Mammut blog they are going to get someone to clean it up

Hooray, now the Burbage valley will be free from unsightly chalk marks forever! What, you mean other people use chalk there as well?

I thought the film looked amazing.
Michael Ryan - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Mac Ghille Aindrais:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> That's what I like about you Mick.
>
> You can take a good joke.

Even the old ones ... x
Karl Bromelow on 21 Apr 2010

> Am I the ruiner of all things good?
>
> Do you not want UKC to exist? Because that is what you are saying.

Some light reading for you Mick:

http://www.lostlibertycafe.com/index.php/2009/04/10/is-evil-necessary/

Michael Ryan - on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Karl Bromelow:
>
> [...]
>
> Some light reading for you Mick:
>
> http://www.lostlibertycafe.com/index.php/2009/04/10/is-evil-necessary/

5.14c First ascent Chris Sharma April 1997 at Virgin River Gorge, Arizona, USA
gabriel_m on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Chris Craggs:
I am not, but it was enough to worry a large dog when I saw it.
Karl Bromelow on 21 Apr 2010
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:

Witty sales pitch (get it?) here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5ZcwxtHGKc&feature=related
zachary lesch-huie on 22 Apr 2010 - 96-36-116-142.static.hckr.nc.charter.com
In reply to UKC News: Well, the censor with that squirt gun must have gotten me on my first try. Fair enough. Perhaps I trivialized tick marks, which are a serious issue. But what I attempted to communicate was that it is perpetually entertaining to watch y'all respond to Grit visitors. It confirmed to me that in all matters Grit, folks have their heads way up...
portlandclimber - on 22 Apr 2010
In reply to zachary lesch-huie: hahaha, you are so so so right. there is a huge belief in grit being gods rock etcetc and its nice to climb on, but its not the be all and end all folk seem to think it is. off to scotland tommorrow so maybe get something over 20ft high done. :) xx
Enty - on 22 Apr 2010
In reply to portlandclimber:
> (In reply to zachary lesch-huie) hahaha, you are so so so right. there is a huge belief in grit being gods rock etcetc and its nice to climb on, but its not the be all and end all folk seem to think it is. off to scotland tommorrow so maybe get something over 20ft high done. :) xx

PORTLANDCLIMBER - that's easy for you to say ;-)

E

portlandclimber - on 22 Apr 2010
In reply to Enty: shhhhhh, dont tell anyone. its our secret. to be honest it was a bit tongue in cheek.

nightnight ;) xx
Neil Foster - on 23 Apr 2010
In reply to UKC News:

Tick marks and ethics aside, I thought the video trailer was really intriguing. How often do you see film or stills of climbing, and can honestly say "that's different"? This film showed an early example of what looked (to me) like a really exciting and completely different new filming technique.

It also gave rise to one of the most surreal photographs I've seen in ages:-

(Follow this link, and then click on the 4th photo in the row).
http://dedicam.tv/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=37:special-shots-fuer-alpiq&a...

(and by surreal, I don't mean the rather odd sight of JD cranking out Offspring, some 25 years after I photographed him on a previous ascent...!).

Neil


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