UKC

krabs for use with reverso in guide mode

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 davefount 30 May 2010
Could people please recommend the best karabiner to use with a reverso in guide mode. IM talking about the one the rope runs around. I remember seeing the patagonia video on you tube where Steve House talks through his kit for the rupal face-I remember him saying that he carried an old hms for this because its back bar was round and of large radius and this saved lots of energy on a large route due to being easier to pull in the rope, offset against its larger weight.

Any specific recommendations are welcome. I am conscious that after days with lots of pitches my arms I tied from pulling the ropes through and belaying rather than the climbing. I'm also wondering about doing some specific training for this prior to the alps this year!?
 Andy_B39 30 May 2010
In reply to davefount: I use one of these http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/locking-carabiners/attache
Still has the nice round, straight back bar but with the smaller size it's nice and light weight too.
Having the round bar does ake a huge difference. I have used it with DMM sentinel crabs but the narrow, I-beam bar makes it hard work, especially with thicker ropes
 EwanR 30 May 2010
In reply to davefount: DMM Fat Boy

http://www.dmmclimbing.com/productsDetails.asp?pid=3&pid2=56

Works brilliantly with a reverso for all the reasons Steve House mentions.
 Aigen 30 May 2010
In reply to davefount: First off use a locking Biner. You should get something with a nice round bar stock through out the entire biner. Second get a biner with a clean nose. It stops the nose of the biner getting caught on the rope when putting it on and off. I use a petzl attach.
 pottsworth 31 May 2010
In reply to davefount:
I find the cheap-as-chips clog HMS, or slightly pricier pre-I-beam wild country HMS both work pretty well
Paul F 31 May 2010
In reply to davefount:

I use a couple of DMM sentinel HMS 'biners with skinny ropes, no problems.
 jon 31 May 2010
In reply to davefount:

I must admit to being disappointed with my Reverso in 'guide' mode for this very reason. I've found myself as pumped belaying as I have been whilst climbing the pitch. I've got the Reverso to replace my old NewAlp Magic plate, which I've had since it first came out and which was the first of this type of device. With the Magic Plate it is EASY to run the ropes through with any brake krab, but at the same time is mechanically just as secure as the Reverso. Unfortunately it doesn't have the other functions that a Reverso has, and to abseil you need to carry another device as well.

I wonder whether it's JUST the choice of krab that makes the Reverso hard to use. I suspect it's partly that, but also the very aggressive V-grooves that the rope runs through. I'm hoping the with time the grooves will wear and the handling will become more like the Magic Plate. Following the above posts, I'm also going to try the largest diameter krab I can find!
In reply to davefount: Petzl now recommend using a D shaped locking karabiner for connection to the harness rather than an HMS. This is the one: http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/locking-carabiners/amd

I think it's supposed to reduce the chance of cross loading. I find it easier than an HMS which does have a tendency to flip round quite readily. I also use it in "guides mode" and have not experienced any problems. I try to keep the ropes passing over the back bar. In fact I find "guides mode" so useful that I now tend to use it whenever the opportunity presents itself even on UK trad if the belay is sound enough.

Al
 jon 31 May 2010
In reply to tradlad:

If you are using two ropes the brake krab will always stay in its correct orientation, ie the rope running over its spine. And this is almost a reason to use a D shaped one - an HMS is more likely to try to turn due to its 'smoother' shape (I know when you refer to the D-shape you were referring to the other krab...) It's only when using it with a single that the krab can turn around and risk the rope running over the gate or worse opening it.
In reply to jon: Must admit, I've never tried using it with a single rope but I always found the HMS had a tendency to flip round even with doubles. I don't think it really matters and I don't think that it increases the risk of cross loading too much but it is irritating. I tried using a "Belay Master" set up for a while but thats too much "faff". For singles I use a "Mammut Smart" device which I prefer to a Grigri. One person once dropped me with a Grigri and another announced that she had it the wrong way round just as I was about to commit to the crux.

How sad are we? Sat at out computers instead of out climbing. My excuse is that my wife and daughter are in Tuscany and I'm dog sitting, whats yours?

Al
 Morgan Woods 31 May 2010
In reply to jon: Jon what are your thoughts on if it needs to be a screwgate at all. I've seen plenty of euros running the rope around a snap gate when using a plate in guide mode.
 jon 31 May 2010
In reply to tradlad:

Cat sitting. Like I said, I wasn't referring to the krab attaching the plate to the belay, but to the brake krab.

To Morgan:

Yes, I always use a snaplink with the Magic Plate and never bother with a screw gate - but will deny having said that if the UKC police get hot under the collar!
 jon 31 May 2010
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to tradlad)
>
> To Morgan:
>
> Yes, I always use a snaplink with the Magic Plate and never bother with a screw gate - but will deny having said that if the UKC police get hot under the collar!

Having said that I only use it on long routes with double ropes. If I'm using a single, it's because I'm walking down afterwards and always use a Grigri in that case.

 Morgan Woods 01 Jun 2010
In reply to jon: Cheers Jon. Guess I've tended to feel happier with both screwgate in guide mode.
OP davefount 01 Jun 2010
In reply to davefount:

interesting

thank you all for the recommendations
 jon 06 Jun 2010
In reply to Morgan Woods:

Yesterday I did a long route on The Perrons and used my Reverso. This time I took someone's advice from one of the posts above and used the largest diameter krab I could lay my hand on as the brake krab - a large HMS krab. I also allowed it to slide around so the ropes were running over the 'pear shaped' part, which sort of had the effect of 'increasing' the diameter further. What a fantastic difference. As I said, the smallest dia krab works fine with the NewAlp plate, and I'd assumed because they work the same way that that it'd work for the Reverso...... but the Reverso definitely needs a monster. I've completely reverso'd my opinion....
 Edvin m 06 Jun 2010
In reply to davefount: Another tip to make it easier is to have the reverso quite a bit away from you. I always try to set up the belay so the reverso or ATC guide is atleast a meter away from you and also a little bit higher.

Makes is alot easier to feed the rope through than to have your hands right next to it.

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