UKC

hi looking for some opinions/advice.visited the cheesewring quarry on bodmin moor for the 2nd time wanting to do the exciting looking simanon direct.last time we looked at it an were put off by the 2nd pitch lookin devoid of any prot possabilities.decided this time to have a go.the hard 4c move from the 1st pitch belay ledge is totally unprotected and most of the rest of the pitch only has a peg someone placed years ago.i fell off tryin to get up the corner and luckily landed half on my mate which stopped me going off the ledge.if i had fallen further i would have been falling directly on his belay plate.there was a tiny horizontal crack up in the corner which i tried to get a micro in without success.we bailed.
afterwards i remembered a couple of 'pegs' id made a while back,an thought one of them hammered into that crack wld have protected the belay an given reasonable prot for the crux.wld it be totally wrong?ive been on many climbs where in the past someone has placed a peg on an otherwise badly protected part.its always down to the individual whether or not to use it but i bet everyone appreciates the reason they are there and do make use of them.or should i just forget trying this climb again im unsure if id be commiting a no no.apreciate any thoughts advice etc

In reply to minexplorer: A peg is only a temporary solution, it'll rust and turn to crap in a few years and you'll be back in the same predicament.

Why not forget about the route for the moment, wait until you've improved to the level where you can climb it without needing the protection and go back to it then.

In reply to minexplorer:

9 Simanon Direct ** HVS 4c
The long standing Cheesewring classic. A serious route that
requires good judgement and a cool head. The route seeps for
long periods after rainfall although the alternative direct variation
on the second pitch does dry a little quicker but is no less
serious. Start at a large quarry-ring at the very base of the crag.
1) 4b, 10m. Climb up leftwards to a long chain which is used for
protection but not as a means of ascent! Belay at the rock ring holding
the chain.
2) 4c, 13m. Climb up onto a ledge and then step up to another ledge on
the right below a leaning wall. Traverse out right along the ledge to a
groove and a good small nut-placement. Move up the groove to good holds,
and then traverse back left along a large vegetated ramp to its end and
move up to a large belay ledge. Very bold.
2a) E1 5a, 8m. A variation takes the direct line to the second stance past
a poor peg, also bold.
3) 4b, 12m. Move rightwards to the base of a of a line that cuts back left
and up a diagonal crack to the top in a fine position.
FA. Toni Carver, Richard Grose 9.9.1967

Description form the new West Country Rockfax - sounds like there is gear on the pitch, only higher than you got too!

Chris

In reply to minexplorer: This doesn't necessarily help but I distinclty remember doing the whole route in one - admittedly a lot of rope drag at the top of the route but I used the chain as a runner with an extended sling. I vaguely remember the 2nd pitch having some gear but can't remember where. From memory the chain certainly prevented decking from the crux and would be a runner rather than potential factor 2 fall.

Re-reading your post however, this would certainly protect the move from the chain ledge.

You could then belay at the top of the second pitch as I do remember the drga being worst on the 3rd.

Ben

In reply to minexplorer:

In most places adding extra fixed gear to routes that were done originally without is frowned upon and generally requires significant local concensus behind the decision.

It would seem a bit of a shame, I would think, to add extra gear now to a route which was done over 40 years ago without. My personal opinion is that you should wait until you improve some more and are confident enough to tackle the route without.

In reply to minexplorer: old peg placements are usually the relics of first accents and when making repeats there's generally an onus on doing it with this in mind. so if the FAist wacked a peg in, and maybe its rusted to sh?t or maybe someone has replaced it fair cop clip away. but if the FAist didn't and its been done for donkeys years without, it would probably be a bit of a foux paux or however you spell it to 'retropeg' a route without local concensus. 'course, taken to it's logical conclusion that line of arguement would see us climbing in hobnails and not using cams. and cheesewring has recently seen a fair bit of retrobolting, which few seem to mind. effics are a funny old thing. but if you look at the retropeg put in on the bold section of the spider at chudliegh(your favourite crag(!)) you can see that it was a bit of a contraversial move and it was later removed,( pretty much- there is a thread somewhere about this for further info) so basicly it would be a bit of a no-no. also the grade hvs 4c is indicative that the route might be a bit 'character building'. hope this ramble helps. have you made the trek to torbay yet?

In reply to minexplorer:

Not just because of the sake of the climb but I would also recommend not using home made pegs. I'm no one to judge but unless your really good at metal work are you sure they are up to scratch?

Good luck with it, the top pitch is well worth doing!

In reply to minexplorer: Placing any new pegs on this would definately be out of order. I'd recommend running the first two pitches together to reduce fall factors etc, but then take a belay so as top enjoy the superb top pitch without any rope drag. (Double ropes are best to make the most of the available gear.)

In reply to minexplorer: "wait until you improve..." or wait until it is bolted, another good trad route at Cheesewring over-bolted; lost to the bolters who - did'nt ask the OK from the first ascentionists. Use your home-made peg - your mate can take it out. Unlike the bolters, you will have left nothing behind just already quarried rock.

In reply to minexplorer: Back in the 80's there was a peg in the back of the groove on the second pitch, wether it was an original placement I think not but the seepage mentioned in the route description cause it to rust out very soon after my first lead of the route. Afterwards a 4/5 Rock fitted nicely although it is a very intimidating move getting established in the groove as well as a bold traverse to it due to the (complete) lack of pro and the slightly overhanging nature of the traverse. Try it again but run the first two pitches together. And watch out for that seepage above the traverse.

In reply to climbright:

Can you fill me in on some of the bolting history at Cheesewring? There seems to be an unusual mix of trad and sport routes alongside each other. Just wondering how this works?

In reply to Jamie Bankhead:

Whilst I dont know much about cheesewring in particular, it's hardly unusual to have a mix of sport and trad on the same crag - malham, Avon, cheddar, cheesewring, swanage, tunnel walls, bits of pen twyrn, slate, plus I'm sure there's loads of examples in the peak that I can't remember - high tor and cheedale both have some of both on...

In reply to Jamie Bankhead:

Routes that get bolted in the cheese are ones which have little or no gear. The place hardly get's any visiters even though it's the name of the guide. I see more trafic at other crags in the guide than here.

The bolting is an effort to get more people on these scary routes, now made safe.

Not trying to get into a sport/trad debate. But the majority can see that both have their advantages. And this is what the 'bolters' want to do. At the moment there is a very good selection of both disciplines.

(this pst is a bit all over the place, but I'm sure you can see what I'm getting at!)

In reply to minexplorer:

Shocking.

E

In reply to minexplorer:

Hi,

May I suggest you ask the first ascensionist what he thinks? Tony Carver (ST. Ives) did this route in 1967, and knowing Tony this route was climbed with a hawser rope tied around his waist, and some home made climbing gear too! (When he first climbed with us back in the early 80's I laughed at his antiquated gear...or lack of it!).

Tony is very approachable, and has a gold mine of climbing history knowledge from Cornwall. Give him a call.

Mark

In reply to Enty: that opinion of yours is exactly why i was askin others advice first mate.ive only been climbing 18 months an didnt want to do anything the sport sees as 'not the done thing'

In reply to w.pettet-smith: cheers mate an all the others for the advice. i will def have another go at simanon soon without any diy peg.it was just an idea.i was so close then my foot slipped on some dusty dry litchen jus got to be in a more balsy mood.yes went to torbay one of the best days climbing i had.led gates of eden great stuff.also led nest egg an fandangle tho i missed the correct way up the 5B crux.did the first bit to the peg but cldnt work out the rest had to finish up the pearl.loved the place

In reply to minexplorer:

Just string pitch 1&2 together and get a high sling runner on the chain. That will protect you more than enough for the traverse out right. FWIR I think the crux then comes after the good wire placement.

Quite a scary HVS,top pitch is a belter - please don't peg it.

Cheers,
Tom

In reply to minexplorer:

Simple answer is NO. Placing a peg is dodge ground anyway. If you're handplacing it then it is probably ok, but only if there will be no rock damage. Hammering a peg into a classic route, especially a homemade peg of (I'm assuming) dubious quality is definatly a NO NO.

Also, and I'm not being elitist here, but a 4c route is well within the capability of the majority of the climbing population. Instead of pegging it, think of it as a project to build up to and train in at your indoor wall, practise as many 4c climbs as you can before hand. Climb some 5a and 5b climbs, even if it's only on toprope because then you'll know your technically capable of the route.

Then go it. I think a clean ascent such as this would mean much more to you, expecially when you can look back and reflect on the effort you put in to achieve that route.

Good luck and happy climbing!

In reply to mlmatt: youre completely right mate.ive thought since as someone else suggested the HVS grade indicates character building.it wld be unsatisfying not to have the balls to do the exposed moves properly.ive done a fair few 4c 5a before.by way when i said hammerin a peg in i did mean one my 2nd would be able to remove not permanant.lookin fward to another go,cheers

In reply to Southern Man:hi mate.dont worry wont bother with the peg idea.(was going to be one my 2nd cld remove after).wonderin,when u did this route did u get up from the 1st belay ledge using a mantleshelf move direct or stepping over from the left wall.unfortunately my mate was in the way to try the wall(thought we should have done 1&2 together)cheers rad