UKC

I am buying a stove for a trip for a backpacking/hiking trip to Canada.

My first thought was the Jet boil, because needlesports says that it is very light, but at £70 and 425g +gas seems quite heavy.

A better option looks like the MSR pocket rocket at 86g, £30 plus a pan such as the trangia mess tin at £7, 150g. Total of 235g and £37. Looks a lot better than the jetboil.

Also can anyone tell me why I would want to spend the extra £50 to get the MSR titan kettle which is only 32g lighter than the trangia mess tin on needle sports?

In reply to ablackett: I have an Optimus Crux. It's about 72 grms but I doubt that it is as efficient at boiling a pint of water as the Jet boil. That wasn't an issue for me because bivving on an alpine climb what else do you have to do with yourself. I also have a Titanium kettle and the whole system is considerably less than a jet boil.

Al

In reply to ablackett:

the thing is over the trip the jet boil will use less gas to do the same thing so will weigh less (does that make sense?)
plus i'm sure i only paid about £45 for mine.... if you are going to buy a stove and pans, might be good idea to check the prices in canada

also, you'll find drinking out of the jetboil cup easier than a mess tin,

how long are you going to be in between restocking venues? and are you going to altitude?

In reply to rallymania:

http://www.aosbanbury.com/shop/products/jetboil-personal-cooking-system.htm

saved you £20 straight off

In reply to ablackett:

i have the pocket rocket and MSR pan set.


yes it is lightweight but is also slow on cooking time, unless you use a windshield.

it is also quite unstable and once or twice i have lost a pan of water while trying to boil it. best way to overcome this iss to find even ground or a table to cook on - not always possible.

despite its flaws its a great stove, just make sure you get the right pan size to combine with it - dont get something that will be too heavy or unstable once sat ontop of the stove.

In reply to ablackett:


JetBoil isn't light.

The standard, round, Trangia 27UL pans are light and cheap (~£6).

If you go for a Pocket Rocket, or any other simple canister stove, I'd also recommend a windshield made from thick aluminium foil (e.g. disposable roasting or BBQ tray).

The weight thing will depend on resupply opportunities (e.g. how much fuel you need to carry).

I'd take a home-made alcohol burner and Caldera Clone... Use yellow HEET as fuel (methanol fuel line de-icer) if you can't get 'meths'. I'd suspect (but with no personal experience) widely available in garages in Canada, since they have to deal with low temperatures...

Whatever you choose, make sure your airline will allow you to take it on the plane; they certainly won't allow the fuel...

try to buy a stove when you get there, my mate lives in Vancouver and last year in the Himalayas he turned up with an MSR dragonfly he paid 70 canadian dollars for including fuel bottle !! Check out Mountain Equipment Co-OP in Vancouver ,their on the web check out prices for an idea what stuff cost , and they sell RPs !!!

In reply to ablackett:

If you go for a pocket rocket or similar canister top stove, it might be worth getting one of these to make the canister stable:

http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Cooking-Equipment/Stove-Spares/Primus...

Apparently very good, though I've never used one. I have a primus omniffuel which I think is the nuts, but you don't seem to be looking for that. It's probably too heavvy if you're going solo.

Tim

personally I like the jetboil - the great thing about it is you dont need any other pans or cups etc. the stove is its own mess tin and the plastic cover for the flame bit is your cup, plus they are superquick to boil water (the smallest canister lasted me a week in scotland, doing breakfast, dinner and a hot drink at night. and the small canister fits neatly inside the jetboil. So think about the weight/size in terms of its comparison with a stove plus gas plus pan plus cup.

In reply to ablackett:

MSR reactor stove is the best! more fuel efficient carry less gas! big enough to cook big meal!

I am an expert on such maters! pocket rocket too fuel hungry!

In reply to ablackett:
If you are going to be backpacking for a while and fuel efficiency/weight is the issue then I think the Primus Eta pots are a good compromise between weight and efficiency:

http://www.facewest.co.uk/Primus-EtaPower-Pots.html

I am on the verge of getting one to go with my existing pocket rocket style gas stove. Anyone used one?

In reply to ablackett: http://www.gear-zone.co.uk/msr-pocket-rocket-titan-kettle-kit-pid956.html

i got this deal a few weeks back, its great and does the job.

In reply to wirralclimber1984: it is out of stock, but there are plenty of sites offering it, just need to google msr pocket rocket titian kettle kit

kev

In reply to ablackett:

I'm getting an Optimus Nova+ you can burn anything you like on it!

MSR whisperlite and expedition are also multifuels as are primus?

In reply to ablackett: you can get a knock off pocket rocket for about a tenner from ebay and i think tk max were doing one pretty much the same thing ive used it in anger and it works it fits the primus gas id also suggest the primas pan set can get a 'solo' traveller that has a heat deflector ring on the bottom and comes with a lid

In reply to ablackett: For summer use I have found meth burning stoves light and adequate, a link here on how to make a stove by captain paranoia this is handy to know if your stove breaks or you cannot get fuel and will also work as your main stove if you want something really light http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/gear-features/make-your-own-meths-burner/6227....

In reply to Garbhanach: Is meths widely available in Canada? White gas or cannisters are the normal choice.

In reply to ablackett:
Jetboil is great for cragging and making brews but to cook you need something a bit better <cooking pot on the JB is deep and narrow> The pocket rocket is king but to get the best out of it you need a themally efficent pot, the MSR TIATAN or similar transfers heat very well being titanium. Less time spent cooking is more fuel saved. You'll get a 100 size cartridge and the burner head inside the pot and just fasten together with a lacky band.
Study Capatin Paranoia's instructions for making a coke can burner, if your PR breaks or you are out of gas, you can get a coke can anywhere and bodge something to get you out of the poo. <hotel shampoo bottle or miniture sprits bottle will carry enough meth/heat to make a couple of brews.
If you are a non-smoker, get a fire stick then you never have to worry about a light.

In reply to blanchie14c:
Titanium conducts heat less efficiently than aluminium, although arguably it compensates by being able to be built thinner.

Anodised alu (eg. the primus Eta pots mentioned above) are very tough and only a bit heavier.

In reply to Siward:
Yes prob due to the thinner walls but it does boil water quicker than like for like ali. did some time tests last year with measured fuels and water in different pots. The titan came out top every time. Wider base too than some, allowed the flame to fan a bit.
Tests were on meths burners BTW.

In reply to ablackett:

I just ordered a Vango Ultralite stove (described here http://www.petesy.co.uk/vango-ultralite-gas-stove ). Practically identical to the Optimus Crux, but at a fraction of the price.

One advantage of these over the pocket rocket is that the burner head is much wider, making it more suitable for actual cooking, rather than just melting snow/heating water.

In reply to L.A.:

I have never been there, Captain paranoia posted this above

The weight thing will depend on resupply opportunities (e.g. how much fuel you need to carry).

I'd take a home-made alcohol burner and Caldera Clone... Use yellow HEET as fuel (methanol fuel line de-icer) if you can't get 'meths'. I'd suspect (but with no personal experience) widely available in garages in Canada, since they have to deal with low temperatures...

In reply to Garbhanach:
Captain may be able to clarify this but 'meths' as we know it is purple due to the additive put in it. Its a poison to stop you drinking it and get around the alcohol duty. Its just plain old ethenol over there with no additives. Heet is sold in garages same as redex is sold in ours. There is loads about it all on outdoors magic

In reply to L.A.:


I suspect that 'yellow HEET' may be widely available in Canada, due to the low temperatures they experience. This is pretty much purel methanol, and widely used by the lightweight, alcohol-burning backpackers in the US.

Googling suggests that denatured alcohol may not be so easy to find in Canada

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&q=backpacking+denatured+alcohol+canada
http://blog.bigsnit.com/2010/05/01/finding-denatured-alcohol-in-canada/
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_disp...

As for making your own alcohol burner in extremis, the easiest burner to make is simply the bottom hacked off a drinks can; an open-cup burner. Not the hottest, but it works. If you want to make it hotter, cut a thin strip of can sidewall, and place it around the inside rim of the can bottom.

Ti has a thermal conductivity 1/10 that of aluminium (0.219W/cmK vs 2.37W/cmK). It has a density 5/3 that of Al (4.5g/cm3 vs 2.7g/cm3). Thus, for pans that are the same size & weight, the Ti pan will be 3/5 the thickness. This ought to mean that a Ti pan won't be as efficient as an Al pan at heating stuff.

However, my experiments have shown that the metal of the pan makes little difference, which means that the pan isn't the limiting factor in the transfer of heat to flame; this is probably either side of the pan; flame:pan or pan:contents. The former is addressed by the JetBoil. What is more important is matching the burner flame ring to the pan; a wider diameter pan can 'catch' more of the heat from the flame. If using a narrow pan, use a burner with a narrow flame ring.

Above all, don't set your burner to 'max'; all you will do is piss heat uselessly up the side of the pan, wasting fuel. Experiments have shown that, once you set the burner output to something less than max, you will use the same mass of fuel to heat the contents, redardless of the time it takes to heat (within reason; e.g. out to 15 minutes). This suggests that relatively little heat is lost from pan to the environment compared to the heat from the burner.

In reply to ablackett: For me, the most important thing about a stove should be its usability. The fact that it may be a few grammes lighter is neither hear nor there. Buy something that works the best, not that is the lightest. You can always carry another 100g.

In reply to captain paranoia: Gulp! -I only asked....

In reply to blanchie14c:


UK meths is generally about 95% ethanol, 5% methanol denaturant (a poison), Bitrex and purple dye to identify it as dentatured.

Yellow HEET (HEET® Gas-line Antifreeze & Water Remover) is just about pure methanol, which needs to be handled with much more care than meths; it is toxic (blindness, death), and can be absorbed through the skin.

http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/heet/products.aspx

In reply to L.A.:


No worries; it's a good question, which is why I added the caveat that I have no personal experience of meths availability in Canada.

I shall make enquiries via backpackinglight.com...

In reply to EeeByGum:


Usability generally comes down to familiarity. If you know how your stove works, and how to make it do what you want it to do, that's good enough.


The SUL brigade would be collecting sticks to build a fire on which to burn the heretic for that comment. But you'd be okay, as they'd spend so long debating the relative merits of single- vs double-walled woodburners, or whether a downdraught gassifier is genuinely downdraught, or a gassifier, you could walk away slowly...

In reply to ablackett: There is a big lightweight backing scene in N America. Just type "coke can stove" or "penny stove" into youtube and there are all sorts of clips showing ultra lightweight cooking gear, a lot of it homemade and super cheap - burners, windscreens, various ti pots etc.

In reply to captain paranoia:


I meant 'from flame to contents'...

In reply to captain paranoia:
i remember reading somewhere that south of the border in USA you don't ask for meths (you'll get arrested... or buy some seriously funked up gear) but wood alcohol. maybe similar in canada???

In reply to pol:

Or you could look at my OM article on making meths burners, linked to by Garbhanach above

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/gear-features/make-your-own-meths-burner/6227....

Or read the honking great 'how to make meths sotves Q&A' thread:

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/forummessages/mps/UTN/22261

Or read my thread on the Caldera Clone: a pan support/windshield that will pack away inside the pan it supports. Started off as a bit of fun playing with a copy of Trail Designs Caldera Cone, and ended up as a very useful lightweight cook kit.

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/forum/forummessages/mps/UTN/22357/dt/4/URN/5/s...

My cookset of burner, Clone and MyTiMug weighs 134g (8+22+104). I can add a plastic pot (77g) and insulating cosy (47g) for cooking dehydrated meals.

In reply to rallymania:


'Denatured alcohol' is probably the most useful phrase; it might actually get you some methsalike.

Wood alcohol/methyl alcohol/methyl hydrate are all synonyms for methanol.

In reply to captain paranoia:
Just nipped to wilkinsons for some dishwaster tablets, noticed they have gilert folding stove windshields <alu> for 2.99...

In reply to Northern Climber:
...

I found this, but I got a little plastic thingy which folds out with three legs to stabalise the canister, and now it's not really a problem.

The biggest prob I have is locating the pan centrally on the burner

In reply to balmybaldwin: Another way of stabilising pocket rockets with existing kit is to use three tent pegs, push them into the ground around the canister (flush) and it makes it much harder to knock over.

In reply to captain paranoia:


And his answer is that methanol (methyl hydrate) is widely available in groceries, pharmacies and hardware stores. That's the fuel alcohol stove users in Canada use, in his experience. He's based in Toronto.

In reply to captain paranoia:


Don't knock it til you've tried it! I've been dabbling with a Bushbuddy woodburner lately and it is surprisingly effective.

Here's a pic of it in action

http://gavinmacfie.blogspot.com/2010/03/mobile-blogging-douglas-coupland-an...

and a recent trip report when I left the gas at home and relied on wood

http://gavinmacfie.blogspot.com/2010/06/36-hours-in-fisherfield.html

As for gas, if you're after lightweight you won't get much better than the Optimus Crux.

Remote canister stoves are better to cook on and especially for winter use because you can heat the cylinder by placing it near the burner. The Primus Gravity is the best I've seen.

In reply to the real dr gav:


I'm not knocking it. I'm just having a little dig at the obsessiveness of SUL stovies. Myself included...