UKC

For a day's multi-pitch, that is. Big enough to carry your share of ropes and gear, small enough not to be a pain in the proverbials once actually on the route. Thoughts, anyone?

In reply to Wingnut: 30 litres, rock ice - best i've ever used, rope, rack, food, clothes, sorted. obviously rope is kept on the outside on the walk in.

In reply to Wingnut: 30-35l at most....plenty of room.

In reply to Wingnut:

Hmm... _any_ pack is big enough to be a pain if the route is hard. Do you really have to lug a pack or can you not leave it at the base of the climb? If necessary, something tiny (25l or less) and carry the rope on your back too.

I always use a Lowe Alpine Crossbow 45+10.

It is big enough for two people's kit for a days multi-pitch and you simply have one person carry it in and the other carry it out afterwards. It means that you don't have a stray (empty) rucksac floating about getting in the way and it means the leader can climb properly without a rucksac.

If you're feeling weak then you can have a lightweight rope bag so one person carries the ropes while the other carries the other kit. Then when you're climbing the rope bag can be stuffed into the other rucksac.

CCW

In reply to Wingnut:35 perhaps,as i've attached a small strap to the frame of my Berghaus sack,and i can fit my rack in,and lunch and light water proof and first-aid kit,and strap the rope on under the lid.Haven't used it yet but they all fit.As it's full to the brim with the rope inside,so a lot of space is freed with it on the outside.
Cheers
Tim.

In reply to Wingnut:

30-35L rucsac & a medium compression sack. Two bags for the walk in/out & only one small one to climb with.

In reply to Wingnut:

As small as possible. I have a Lowe Guide which they do not seem to make anymore, at a guess it is 20 litres. I have got everything into it for a days' cragging but it wasn't comfortable, however if you are willing to carry the rope outside the sack bandolier style then you have plenty of room and it won't be flopping around the place when you are climbing. I have used this for big rock routes in the alps with no problem. The sack should also sit well above the harness so that you have full access to the gear loops and chalkbag.

A mate has one of those Berghaus bum-bags that expands to a small sack, again about 20L. This is small enough to have a large sack to get to the crag then put trainers etc in the bum-bag and do the route. This of course presupposes that you are returning to the foot of the route afterwards.

Bob

In reply to Wingnut: Try the Osprey Aether 36. enough room forn all the kit, then tighten the straps and it shrinks in to nothing. a great pack.

In reply to Wingnut:

The baby Macpac (not that I'm a Macpac addict, or anything) - is it the Fanatic?

Claims to be 25 litres, but actually doesn't seem much smaller than the 30l Karrimor Hot it's recently replaced. It's got a strap under the lid that'll hold the rope nice & snug (and the side compression straps have quick release buckles, so they're easy to use to further restrain the rope). Compresses down nicely when it's empty, etc.

25-30 litres should give you enough room to get gear, harness boots and a spare fleece & windproof inside, along with water and a bit of food. Rope under the lid. You might or might not be able to get the helmet inside (well, it makes a good sandwich box), but not too bad on the outside.

My only complaint is they don't make a girly version - the shoulder straps are a bit wide and set a bit far apart for me, but it'll do.

What I don't understand is why I can fit everything in a 25 litre sac for a daymulti-pitching in the mountains, but need the 45 litre sac for a few hours at single pitch crag close to the road......

In reply to Carolyn:
Not looking for any recommendations of a particular model . . . just curious, as have noticed the same phenomenon!

Would the "single-pitch crag close to the road" be gritstone? Cams take up a lot of space . . . or maybe people just make more effort to organise the gear if it's got to be dragged all the way up the side of a mountain as opposed to just bringing the entire contents of the car boot?

In reply to Wingnut:

Nope, I've climbed on gritstone about three times in my life, so that's not the issue! I think it's the not being bothered to sort the gear until you get the bottom of the crag, throwing in 3 extra clothing combinations just in case, taking the flask of coffee as well as a bottle of water, and throwing in the new rockboots in case we get round to doing anything hard. Except even if we do, I forget to change into the new boots......

I think I only turn my head on for packing when I know I'm going to be taking it all up the route - if it's up in the mountains but I'm planning to leave the sac at the bottom then I rarely bother trying to get it all in the little one!

In reply to Carolyn:

PS Have just got a really diddy (10 litre?) hydration sac thing that I think's going to be great for taking up long multi-pitches when I can leave the main sac at the bottom. Room for water & snacks, but so small it shouldn't be noticed. Haven't tested this theory yet, but it's good for running!

In reply to Wingnut:

Apart from leaving most of your big cams behind, there are other tricks to reduce the number of items & size/weight of your rack.

1. Use nuts on cord - save having to carry extra QDs
   
2. Use lighter cordage, 6-7mm on hexes so that u can tie the knot inside the hex
   
3. Use extendable QDs - save on carry extra slings
   
4. Carry a few loose crabs rather than QDs - can be used to clip 1, make more QDs with your corded nuts or doubled as screwgates
   

In reply to Carolyn:
You've just started a new train of thought . . . would be interesting to see a sort of gilet style jobby with a big pocket at the back for a platypus . . . could have pockets on the front for your camera and mars bars . . . could even have a bright yellow version with shiny stripes for biking in . . . mmm, kit lovely kit! :

<*wanders off into kit-monster fantasy*>

In reply to Wingnut:

For a day, try doing without a pack (maybe a bum bag for carrying water). Failing that, the smallest sac you can get (skiing ones with a zip lid work fine). If you have a big sac on route, you WILL carry too much stuff. Concentrate on being light weight, fast and efficient. Get an early start to avoid any chance of benightment.

On the walk in, one person can always carry two ropes rather than a sac.

In reply to GrahamD:
Not really worrying too much about overall weight . . . just pondering on how, whichever rucksac you take, it is almost invariably the wrong size!

Another application of Sod's Law, I guess . . .:

About 30L - allows room for food waterproof (jacket) which is a mainstay, odds and ends.

My Arc'teryx serves me well - as it has two compartments, and a rope stabilizer under the lid. It can carry heavy loads well, and the framesheet and stay are removeable - it's a do everything pack, works well as a bookbag too

If it had side pockets it would be 10/10
now, it's 9.8

But about 30L is the most flexible size

In reply to Wingnut:

The trick is to define the rucksac as being exactly the right size. Then, if gear doesn't fit it is the amount of gear that is wrong, not the 'sac

In reply to Wingnut:

Lay out the gear that you think you will be carrying *on* the route itself. Find a sack that will take that gear and has a couple of litres spare. Sorted.

Bob

Is it just me or are most Karrimor 30L Sacks smaller than other manufacturers? I have a HotRock 30 but it seems smaller compared to most other sacks of that size I have seen...

Daniel

In reply to Daniel:

The old spec of the HotRock was only 25L. Not sure what the new ones rate at. I've on old Hot ice - massive for 30L.