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Just watching the Great Climb on iPlayer.
At the 2nd belay, after Dave's lead, when Tim is just coming up onto the ledge, he completely let go of the dead rope, and was taking as often as I would've liked (if I were Tim).
Did anyone else notice this?
At the 2nd belay, after Dave's lead, when Tim is just coming up onto the ledge, he completely let go of the dead rope, and was taking as often as I would've liked (if I were Tim).
Did anyone else notice this?
In reply to Gandalf:
for those who can, its around the 1 hour 20 mark
for those who can, its around the 1 hour 20 mark
In reply to Gandalf:
Ring him mate, tell him you think he is a crap belayer. Tell him exactly where he is going wrong, Im sure he'll love to hear it.
Ring him mate, tell him you think he is a crap belayer. Tell him exactly where he is going wrong, Im sure he'll love to hear it.
In reply to Gandalf:
You are not the first person to be anal about Dave's belaying from the BBC film.
You are not the first person to be anal about Dave's belaying from the BBC film.
In reply to Gandalf:
he is a far better climber than me, im nto scared to admit it.
I just wanted to know if it was normal and I am in fact anal, or if people thought that it was dangerous?
wasnt meant to be an attack in anyway.
he is a far better climber than me, im nto scared to admit it.
I just wanted to know if it was normal and I am in fact anal, or if people thought that it was dangerous?
wasnt meant to be an attack in anyway.
In reply to Gandalf:
Are you sure he let go? I agree, it did look like it and I noticed it at the time, but on (very slightly) closer inspection, I don't think he did let go.
Are you sure he let go? I agree, it did look like it and I noticed it at the time, but on (very slightly) closer inspection, I don't think he did let go.
In reply to Gandalf:
Yeah I noticed it, but obviously they know what they're doing. Maybe it was the fact that Tim was holding firm onto the ledge and no chance was he going to slip off, and if he did it would have been long enough for Dave to grab it again. Maybe wouldn't have got Dave an SPA or something but at that level they're pretty able to make the judgement themselves.
Yeah I noticed it, but obviously they know what they're doing. Maybe it was the fact that Tim was holding firm onto the ledge and no chance was he going to slip off, and if he did it would have been long enough for Dave to grab it again. Maybe wouldn't have got Dave an SPA or something but at that level they're pretty able to make the judgement themselves.
In reply to Gandalf:
I've not seen the clip yet but I'd assume that if Dave did let go of the rope then he is perfectly capable of catching it again in the event of Tim deciding to log some air miles.
Every sunday all across the UK, bell ringers manage to catch hold of a bit of fast moving rope and most of them are not exactly at their physical peak. I doubt Tim is going to be removing Dave from his Christmas card list.
I've not seen the clip yet but I'd assume that if Dave did let go of the rope then he is perfectly capable of catching it again in the event of Tim deciding to log some air miles.
Every sunday all across the UK, bell ringers manage to catch hold of a bit of fast moving rope and most of them are not exactly at their physical peak. I doubt Tim is going to be removing Dave from his Christmas card list.
In reply to Gandalf:
I agree wholeheartedly. I never climb with anyone unless they can produce an up to date CWA certificate and BS tested helmet.
I agree wholeheartedly. I never climb with anyone unless they can produce an up to date CWA certificate and BS tested helmet.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
sorry!
sorry!
In reply to Removed User: Not to mention the Stake Clipping Technique Award :p
In reply to Reach>Talent:
Unless he has three arms (perhaps that's his secret) then he definitely lets go entirely on at least 4 occasions.
Much harder to stop than you'd think. I was dropped by a belayer doing the same several pitches up. Badly hurt hand and the sheath nearly melted through.
Obviously in this case he could see that his 2nd was in a pretty safe position, but still not the greatest of habits to get into. That said, I imagine most of us do it from time to time; difference is, we're not being filmed!
> I've not seen the clip yet but I'd assume that if Dave did let go of the rope then he is perfectly capable of catching it again in the event of Tim deciding to log some air miles.
Unless he has three arms (perhaps that's his secret) then he definitely lets go entirely on at least 4 occasions.
Much harder to stop than you'd think. I was dropped by a belayer doing the same several pitches up. Badly hurt hand and the sheath nearly melted through.
Obviously in this case he could see that his 2nd was in a pretty safe position, but still not the greatest of habits to get into. That said, I imagine most of us do it from time to time; difference is, we're not being filmed!
In reply to HDV: Chill out guys, It's attentiveness that counts the most in belaying, and is most often missing. Anticipation of when your climber is about to fall is one of the most important things. Tim was standing on a footledge, holding a bucket.
Most belaying accidents I've seen have started with the belayer holding the dead rope, but not knowing how to catch a fall, being in the wrong position or with the mind elsewhere.
Most belaying accidents I've seen have started with the belayer holding the dead rope, but not knowing how to catch a fall, being in the wrong position or with the mind elsewhere.
Jesus, there's nothing like UKCers to nit-pick something to death. Get a life ffs.
In reply to Toby S:
^^ This.
But he would fail his SPA! Classic, f**ckin classic.
> Jesus, there's nothing like UKCers to nit-pick something to death. Get a life ffs.
^^ This.
But he would fail his SPA! Classic, f**ckin classic.
In reply to Dave MacLeod:
Fair enough, but when I learnt to belay 15 years or so ago, (maybe because I was a kid who knows now) I was always always told, "never let go of the dead rope for anything"
and hear it being taught in walls, etc. I've never done a formal course for trad, but I've always assumed, anyone who lets go of the dead rope as someone who cant belay safely (trained response)
Didn't mean anything negative to you, as I've already said, was just wonder. But accidents do happen, be self admission in the film you were pumped after that pitch, how could you garentee that Tim's fingers wouldnt just give? which would cause issues no?
Fair enough, but when I learnt to belay 15 years or so ago, (maybe because I was a kid who knows now) I was always always told, "never let go of the dead rope for anything"
and hear it being taught in walls, etc. I've never done a formal course for trad, but I've always assumed, anyone who lets go of the dead rope as someone who cant belay safely (trained response)
Didn't mean anything negative to you, as I've already said, was just wonder. But accidents do happen, be self admission in the film you were pumped after that pitch, how could you garentee that Tim's fingers wouldnt just give? which would cause issues no?
In reply to Gandalf:
Not if he was stood on a ledge.
And I'm sure he'd shout 'shit, my fingers are going!' too.
> (In reply to Dave MacLeod)
> Fair enough, but when I learnt to belay 15 years or so ago, (maybe because I was a kid who knows now) I was always always told, "never let go of the dead rope for anything"
>
> and hear it being taught in walls, etc. I've never done a formal course for trad, but I've always assumed, anyone who lets go of the dead rope as someone who cant belay safely (trained response)
>
> Didn't mean anything negative to you, as I've already said, was just wonder. But accidents do happen, be self admission in the film you were pumped after that pitch, how could you garentee that Tim's fingers wouldnt just give? which would cause issues no?
> Fair enough, but when I learnt to belay 15 years or so ago, (maybe because I was a kid who knows now) I was always always told, "never let go of the dead rope for anything"
>
> and hear it being taught in walls, etc. I've never done a formal course for trad, but I've always assumed, anyone who lets go of the dead rope as someone who cant belay safely (trained response)
>
> Didn't mean anything negative to you, as I've already said, was just wonder. But accidents do happen, be self admission in the film you were pumped after that pitch, how could you garentee that Tim's fingers wouldnt just give? which would cause issues no?
Not if he was stood on a ledge.
And I'm sure he'd shout 'shit, my fingers are going!' too.
In reply to Dave MacLeod: yea, have you ever climbed grit tho
In reply to Toby S:
Start with yourself.
Some climbers are inexperienced and they need reassurance about different belaying techniques.
Cheers,
Mick
> Jesus, there's nothing like UKCers to nit-pick something to death. Get a life ffs.
Start with yourself.
Some climbers are inexperienced and they need reassurance about different belaying techniques.
Cheers,
Mick
In reply to Gandalf:
Give it a rest. You may actually be right of course & I'm sure the belay police at a climbing wall would have taken him up on it, but I for one would not have any problem with Dave belaying me (if I were so lucky !!.
Give it a rest. You may actually be right of course & I'm sure the belay police at a climbing wall would have taken him up on it, but I for one would not have any problem with Dave belaying me (if I were so lucky !!.
In reply to Dave MacLeod:
apparently you should be ashamed of yourself dave! obviously the UKC massif thinks you should repeat the ascent without making any belay (expletive deleted) ups before you can have the afront to claim this new route!
sheesh
apparently you should be ashamed of yourself dave! obviously the UKC massif thinks you should repeat the ascent without making any belay (expletive deleted) ups before you can have the afront to claim this new route!
sheesh
In reply to rallymania:
There is no collective think, nor a UKC massif, just individual climbers posting.
Sheesh
> (In reply to Dave MacLeod)
> the UKC massif thinks
There is no collective think, nor a UKC massif, just individual climbers posting.
Sheesh
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
I though Tim Emmett did remarkably well all things considered.
> (In reply to Toby S)
> [...]
>
> Start with yourself.
>
I've got one ta.> [...]
>
> Start with yourself.
>
> Some climbers are inexperienced and they need reassurance about different belaying techniques.
>I though Tim Emmett did remarkably well all things considered.
In reply to rallymania:
Classic hysterical response! As far as I can see, the worst criticism on this thread is one person asking for opinions and another suggesting that whilst is probably isn't unsafe, but perhaps not the best technique. A sense of perspective needed perhaps?
> apparently you should be ashamed of yourself dave! obviously the UKC massif thinks you should repeat the ascent without making any belay (expletive deleted) ups before you can have the afront to claim this new route!
Classic hysterical response! As far as I can see, the worst criticism on this thread is one person asking for opinions and another suggesting that whilst is probably isn't unsafe, but perhaps not the best technique. A sense of perspective needed perhaps?
In reply to Dave MacLeod:
Stunning climb Dave and fantastic to get that level of coverage. How is the ankle?
Stunning climb Dave and fantastic to get that level of coverage. How is the ankle?
In reply to Dave MacLeod:
Agree with the last, great climbing when you going to come to the other end of the country and put up some stuff?
Agree with the last, great climbing when you going to come to the other end of the country and put up some stuff?
In reply to HDV:
HDV, did you think that was supposed to be a serious post? OMG!
just in case anyone missed it... i was taking the P one five h!!!!
i think my point (again in case my motives were miss understood) was that after 2 of the best climbers in the world have created a master peice of climbing and shared it with us via a live TV broadcast... all some people seem to be able to do is nitpick at one of the climbers belaying technique for one millisecond of a 6 hour plus climb. is it dave that should get a grip (of the rope) or some internet users who should get a grip?
maybe i'm about to be banned now?
HDV, did you think that was supposed to be a serious post? OMG!
just in case anyone missed it... i was taking the P one five h!!!!
i think my point (again in case my motives were miss understood) was that after 2 of the best climbers in the world have created a master peice of climbing and shared it with us via a live TV broadcast... all some people seem to be able to do is nitpick at one of the climbers belaying technique for one millisecond of a 6 hour plus climb. is it dave that should get a grip (of the rope) or some internet users who should get a grip?
maybe i'm about to be banned now?
In reply to Gandalf:
Video anyone I know (and would happily climb with), myself included from 4 different angles for a whole day and I'm sure you'll pick up on no end of little fumbles, moments of distraction, nose-picking, biscuit-eating, tea-drinking, sleep-nodding distinctly average belaying moments. That's life.
jk
Video anyone I know (and would happily climb with), myself included from 4 different angles for a whole day and I'm sure you'll pick up on no end of little fumbles, moments of distraction, nose-picking, biscuit-eating, tea-drinking, sleep-nodding distinctly average belaying moments. That's life.
jk
In reply to rockjedi12345:
Nasty thing to say, why would you wish a trip to the South East of England on anyone? The only way you'd put up a good route there is using Bendcrete!
> (In reply to Dave MacLeod)
> Agree with the last, great climbing when you going to come to the other end of the country and put up some stuff?
> Agree with the last, great climbing when you going to come to the other end of the country and put up some stuff?
Nasty thing to say, why would you wish a trip to the South East of England on anyone? The only way you'd put up a good route there is using Bendcrete!
In reply to rallymania:
I can see where you were coming from, and on some things I agree. All i wanted was some clarification on things, as I have always been told (as I've said already) "never let go of the dead rope" Dave definately did.
Was just wondering why, maybe I am compeltely anal, but it's how I've been taught. Wasn't meaning to cause offence was just wondering why it happened
but kudos to everyone involved (camera men too) for the climb!
I can see where you were coming from, and on some things I agree. All i wanted was some clarification on things, as I have always been told (as I've said already) "never let go of the dead rope" Dave definately did.
Was just wondering why, maybe I am compeltely anal, but it's how I've been taught. Wasn't meaning to cause offence was just wondering why it happened
but kudos to everyone involved (camera men too) for the climb!
In reply to jkarran:
Absolutely!
I was a little emarrassed when I thought that my belayer was setting up the anchor, and got out the guidebook and was thumbing through my next lead with one finger and thumb on the rope, then the leader looked over and I realised she hadn't finished the pitch yet...
...Sorry Hannah!
Absolutely!
I was a little emarrassed when I thought that my belayer was setting up the anchor, and got out the guidebook and was thumbing through my next lead with one finger and thumb on the rope, then the leader looked over and I realised she hadn't finished the pitch yet...
...Sorry Hannah!
In reply to Gandalf:
... and we are all human
example
as you can probably guess from my user name i quite enjoy a particular form of motor racing. the sports current superstar and arguably the finest driver of all time is one sebastian loeb... he still stuffs the car into the scenery occasionally. why? because he's a human being. i'm sure he's been told, never put the car in the scenery... it'll stop working and you might die, but it still happens
... and we are all human
example
as you can probably guess from my user name i quite enjoy a particular form of motor racing. the sports current superstar and arguably the finest driver of all time is one sebastian loeb... he still stuffs the car into the scenery occasionally. why? because he's a human being. i'm sure he's been told, never put the car in the scenery... it'll stop working and you might die, but it still happens
In reply to rallymania:
Well not entirely, but I thought the tone of the post carried a point. Sorry if I misunderstood.
I think that my point is that there has naturally been a lot of discussion about the TV programme. Most of it has been about what an incredible line it was and how impressive it was to see two talented climbers doing the whole route live. Fair enough; it was.
Discussions about belaying are, I admit, rather beside the point, but once you've said all you can about the route and the programme, then they are still of some interest to some people as a technical aside. It doesn't have to be so adversarial. Nobody was having a go at anybody or taking anything away from the route or the programme. If you don't find it interesting just ignore it; it is a small part of the discussion.
> HDV, did you think that was supposed to be a serious post? OMG!
Well not entirely, but I thought the tone of the post carried a point. Sorry if I misunderstood.
I think that my point is that there has naturally been a lot of discussion about the TV programme. Most of it has been about what an incredible line it was and how impressive it was to see two talented climbers doing the whole route live. Fair enough; it was.
Discussions about belaying are, I admit, rather beside the point, but once you've said all you can about the route and the programme, then they are still of some interest to some people as a technical aside. It doesn't have to be so adversarial. Nobody was having a go at anybody or taking anything away from the route or the programme. If you don't find it interesting just ignore it; it is a small part of the discussion.
In reply to HDV:
that was the bit that worried me!
> (In reply to rallymania)
> Classic hysterical response!
that was the bit that worried me!
In reply to rallymania:
That can't be right....
What happens now?
> it's all cleared up now i think!
That can't be right....
What happens now?
In reply to Gandalf:
Quite right to ask the question - it brings up an important point - that being a safe climber is about more than basic instructions. I'd totally advise anyone to always keep a hand on the dead rope, unless they were someone as experienced and switched on as Tim. In which case they know what they are doing. Understand that you weren't watching an instructional video on Saturday. Everything wasn't explained. While Tim was seconding and the camera was on him, I was fiddling with gear as well as belaying and there was an overhand knot in the dead rope.
> (In reply to rallymania)
> I can see where you were coming from, and on some things I agree. All i wanted was some clarification on things, as I have always been told (as I've said already) "never let go of the dead rope" Dave definately did.
>
> Was just wondering why, maybe I am compeltely anal, but it's how I've been taught. Wasn't meaning to cause offence was just wondering why it happened
>
> but kudos to everyone involved (camera men too) for the climb!
> I can see where you were coming from, and on some things I agree. All i wanted was some clarification on things, as I have always been told (as I've said already) "never let go of the dead rope" Dave definately did.
>
> Was just wondering why, maybe I am compeltely anal, but it's how I've been taught. Wasn't meaning to cause offence was just wondering why it happened
>
> but kudos to everyone involved (camera men too) for the climb!
Quite right to ask the question - it brings up an important point - that being a safe climber is about more than basic instructions. I'd totally advise anyone to always keep a hand on the dead rope, unless they were someone as experienced and switched on as Tim. In which case they know what they are doing. Understand that you weren't watching an instructional video on Saturday. Everything wasn't explained. While Tim was seconding and the camera was on him, I was fiddling with gear as well as belaying and there was an overhand knot in the dead rope.
In reply to Gandalf: There does seem to be an underlying issue that isn't being mentioned explicitly which is Risk in Climbing (with or without a partner )Underlying the relationship with a partner is confidence in the partner's technical ability whether you have climbed with them or not(!).(Likewise when you climb solo )You'll get that info in many ways and you'll quickly know whether you're climbing with someone you're not comfortable with and you really neeed to make it known pretty quickly.I accept that I will not necessarily get text book stuff from a partner(and vv ) but it never crosses my mind that things are going to go wrong if I have confidence .Without that I go by the book and expect likewise.I wonder if Dave McLeod and Tim Emmett were confident in one another!!!
In reply to Dave MacLeod:
Dave just thought you should know that your profiles says your 28 but after watching the great climb (excellent by the way!) we know all know that's not the truth now is it!
Any way keep up the climbing and don't worry about the years!
Dave just thought you should know that your profiles says your 28 but after watching the great climb (excellent by the way!) we know all know that's not the truth now is it!
Any way keep up the climbing and don't worry about the years!
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