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In June this year we ran a design a T-shirt competition which was due to run until the end of July. As it turned out we didn't get as many entries as we'd hoped so we extended it to the end of August.
All the entries are here - http://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/?category=31&nstart=0&sort=v
We are very grateful to all those who took the time and trouble to create an entry for the competition. There were some really attractive designs submitted, and one or two slightly dodgy ones! Unfortunately we don't feel that any of the entries were suitable for a UKC T-shirt so we have decided to not go forward with any of the designs at this stage, consequently we are not selecting a winner. The voting received on the designs tended to support this with no design receiving an average vote of 5 something that we think would be essential
Apologies to all those who entered and voted.
Alan James
All the entries are here - http://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/?category=31&nstart=0&sort=v
We are very grateful to all those who took the time and trouble to create an entry for the competition. There were some really attractive designs submitted, and one or two slightly dodgy ones! Unfortunately we don't feel that any of the entries were suitable for a UKC T-shirt so we have decided to not go forward with any of the designs at this stage, consequently we are not selecting a winner. The voting received on the designs tended to support this with no design receiving an average vote of 5 something that we think would be essential
Apologies to all those who entered and voted.
Alan James
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
I think that that is a real shame.
Although I also feel that expecting to get an average vote of 5 is a tad unrealistic.
What happens if you total the votes? ie score each vote as a point so a vote set of 4,4,5,3 gets 16 etc? that picks out the ones that people really like by getting not only the vote score but also the number of people voting for an option.
Does that give a strong high score for any one? I'm just looking at a good one average score 4 and 70 votes. Pretty good.
I think that that is a real shame.
Although I also feel that expecting to get an average vote of 5 is a tad unrealistic.
What happens if you total the votes? ie score each vote as a point so a vote set of 4,4,5,3 gets 16 etc? that picks out the ones that people really like by getting not only the vote score but also the number of people voting for an option.
Does that give a strong high score for any one? I'm just looking at a good one average score 4 and 70 votes. Pretty good.
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
I agree, a couple of corkers in there. Might have needed some minor modification, but then you've got the mods to do it
I agree, a couple of corkers in there. Might have needed some minor modification, but then you've got the mods to do it
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Its a shame you couldn't find a winner, I know mine wasn't one of the best entries but at least I tried.
Its a shame you couldn't find a winner, I know mine wasn't one of the best entries but at least I tried.
In reply to another_mark:
>
You'd have to work out a weighting. If one person votes a 5 on one design, then it has an average of 5 with one vote. What's that? 5 * 1? If 1000 people vote "1" on another design, you've just given 1000 points to a design so bad that a lot of people wanted to register their disapproval!
>
>
> What happens if you total the votes? ie score each vote as a point so a vote set of 4,4,5,3 gets 16 etc? that picks out the ones that people really like by getting not only the vote score but also the number of people voting for an option.
> What happens if you total the votes? ie score each vote as a point so a vote set of 4,4,5,3 gets 16 etc? that picks out the ones that people really like by getting not only the vote score but also the number of people voting for an option.
You'd have to work out a weighting. If one person votes a 5 on one design, then it has an average of 5 with one vote. What's that? 5 * 1? If 1000 people vote "1" on another design, you've just given 1000 points to a design so bad that a lot of people wanted to register their disapproval!
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
not even this one?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=147156
not even this one?
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=147156
In reply to Blue Straggler:
so normalise around 3 where a vote of 1, scores -2, 2 scores -1, 3 scores 0, 4 scores 1, 5 scores 2.
And No Averages - just totals. People don't vote is the same as a vote of 3. ie nothing special.
so normalise around 3 where a vote of 1, scores -2, 2 scores -1, 3 scores 0, 4 scores 1, 5 scores 2.
And No Averages - just totals. People don't vote is the same as a vote of 3. ie nothing special.
Personally I think that people who entered the competition (not me) would be disappointed.
If we do not have a T-shirt for UKC representation - fine, however the best design of all we have received would be .... and a substitute prize is.... (at least this would be fare).
If we do not have a T-shirt for UKC representation - fine, however the best design of all we have received would be .... and a substitute prize is.... (at least this would be fare).
In reply to suszka: Clearly a lot of time and effort by some of the designers. Even if the results aren't marketable, there should still be a winner.
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
I agree with MHutch, you cant really go organizing a competition saying there will be a prize, then just decide not to. Is that not basically lying? saying there is a prize, then not giving one?
I agree with MHutch, you cant really go organizing a competition saying there will be a prize, then just decide not to. Is that not basically lying? saying there is a prize, then not giving one?
In reply to Dan Lane:
What line of work are you in? Would you like publicity / merchandise for your company if you didn't think it suited what you wanted?
E
What line of work are you in? Would you like publicity / merchandise for your company if you didn't think it suited what you wanted?
E
I kind of agree.... even just for recognition sakes. 'Based on a panel of judges and votes on UKC we consider x to be the best design, however...' would be nice as some people have clearly spent a significant amount of time on this. Plus other less talented people have gone through and voted expecting a winner to be identified.
I agree that UKC should only produce and market gear based on their own medium/high/low standards and that is their right as a business... but at least let us know which you think is best
p.s I am untalented with no imagination and therefore haven't got an ulterior (sp) motive
In reply to Enty:
So don't put up a post offering a competiton open to all members then no?
> (In reply to Dan Lane)
>
> What line of work are you in? Would you like publicity / merchandise for your company if you didn't think it suited what you wanted?
>
> What line of work are you in? Would you like publicity / merchandise for your company if you didn't think it suited what you wanted?
So don't put up a post offering a competiton open to all members then no?
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Why not a limited run of the best few and see from that which sells the best? Otherwise, standardise the "UKC" logo on the best shirts and offer a range of designs rather than just one UKC shirt.
Why not a limited run of the best few and see from that which sells the best? Otherwise, standardise the "UKC" logo on the best shirts and offer a range of designs rather than just one UKC shirt.
In reply to Enty:
nope but i'd consider giving a prize but not using the material
> (In reply to Dan Lane)
>
> What line of work are you in? Would you like publicity / merchandise for your company if you didn't think it suited what you wanted?
>
> E
>
> What line of work are you in? Would you like publicity / merchandise for your company if you didn't think it suited what you wanted?
>
> E
nope but i'd consider giving a prize but not using the material
In reply to Enty:
I agree they proberbly wont want unsuitable publicity, but some sort of prize, a free guidebook or something, some sort of recognition would be nice.
I agree they proberbly wont want unsuitable publicity, but some sort of prize, a free guidebook or something, some sort of recognition would be nice.
In reply to Alan James - UKC: It strikes me that maybe UKC didn't really know what it was they were looking for, and hence didn't find it.
Out of all the designs submitted, I'd have thought that one or two would have struck as being suitable with some tweaks, combining of ideas, etc..
Out of all the designs submitted, I'd have thought that one or two would have struck as being suitable with some tweaks, combining of ideas, etc..
Okay, points taken, I'll have a think about it.
I have already been in touch with the one which we probably would have chosen as the winner - the 'hands' one by Bec.
Alan
I have already been in touch with the one which we probably would have chosen as the winner - the 'hands' one by Bec.
Alan
In reply to Dan Lane:
I would agree with that. It's not really on to run a competition that doesn't have a winner. (I didn't enter and have no vested {no pun intended} interest)
> (In reply to Enty)
>
> I agree they proberbly wont want unsuitable publicity, but some sort of prize, a free guidebook or something, some sort of recognition would be nice.
>
> I agree they proberbly wont want unsuitable publicity, but some sort of prize, a free guidebook or something, some sort of recognition would be nice.
I would agree with that. It's not really on to run a competition that doesn't have a winner. (I didn't enter and have no vested {no pun intended} interest)
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Nice one Alan, I'm not making a big deal of this because i thought i should have won, i didn't even enter. Like i said, it just isnt on to not have a winner.
Nice one Alan, I'm not making a big deal of this because i thought i should have won, i didn't even enter. Like i said, it just isnt on to not have a winner.
In reply to earlsdonhammer: No need for UKC to announce a winner - just look at the voting, Franco's design is way ahead of the others and it shows in the votes.
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Personally I think there are some good T shirts in there. I do think you should assign a winner, even if you don't make their t-shirt.
If you're expecting *everyone* to love the design (i.e. to have a 5 avg) then I think you're being rather naive (I'm tempted to say daft, but I'll go with naive). Could you not allow some of the designs to be put on something like Cafepress so that people can pick and choose the ones they like, then you don't have to expend loads of money having a run of T's done which won't/don't sell. There are one or two of them I'd probably buy.
Personally I think there are some good T shirts in there. I do think you should assign a winner, even if you don't make their t-shirt.
If you're expecting *everyone* to love the design (i.e. to have a 5 avg) then I think you're being rather naive (I'm tempted to say daft, but I'll go with naive). Could you not allow some of the designs to be put on something like Cafepress so that people can pick and choose the ones they like, then you don't have to expend loads of money having a run of T's done which won't/don't sell. There are one or two of them I'd probably buy.
Ha ha! lots of unhappy customers - I'd just accept that my design was'nt good enough to win.
E
E
In reply to mattrm:
I think the point is that AJ and the team don't want a design which they don't like - cost is irrelevent.
E
> (In reply to Alan James - UKC)
>
> Could you not allow some of the designs to be put on something like Cafepress so that people can pick and choose the ones they like, then you don't have to expend loads of money having a run of T's done which won't/don't sell. There are one or two of them I'd probably buy.
>
> Could you not allow some of the designs to be put on something like Cafepress so that people can pick and choose the ones they like, then you don't have to expend loads of money having a run of T's done which won't/don't sell. There are one or two of them I'd probably buy.
I think the point is that AJ and the team don't want a design which they don't like - cost is irrelevent.
E
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
There are some genuinely nice designs and quite clever ones there, but unfortunately most of those which are attractive would be difficult or very expensive to print.
Sorry i didn't enter.
There are some genuinely nice designs and quite clever ones there, but unfortunately most of those which are attractive would be difficult or very expensive to print.
Sorry i didn't enter.
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
To be honest, I can see why you struggled to pick a winner. The vast majority of designs had far too much text, and looked like 'novelty' t-shirts that you'd pick up in some tacky tourist resort.
I'm glad you said that, because I thought it was the most striking design and deserved some sort of recognition; its only one that I would consider wearing. Although I'd prefer the letters a bit smaller.
This one wasn't bad either:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=146524
as it's clean, simple and a classy design, even if the images are a little geeky
and I actually think this one is very good:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=147156
as it reuses the cute artwork of the forums and, crucially, has NO TEXT!! (apart from one very small logo on the back)
To be honest, I can see why you struggled to pick a winner. The vast majority of designs had far too much text, and looked like 'novelty' t-shirts that you'd pick up in some tacky tourist resort.
> I have already been in touch with the one which we probably would have chosen as the winner - the 'hands' one by Bec
I'm glad you said that, because I thought it was the most striking design and deserved some sort of recognition; its only one that I would consider wearing. Although I'd prefer the letters a bit smaller.
This one wasn't bad either:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=146524
as it's clean, simple and a classy design, even if the images are a little geeky
and I actually think this one is very good:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=147156
as it reuses the cute artwork of the forums and, crucially, has NO TEXT!! (apart from one very small logo on the back)
In reply to Enty:
They could always commission a graphic designer if they're looking for that kind of control over the results. Throwing it open to the readership is always going to be a slightly unpredictable way of finding a product. I'm sure many of the 70-odd entries they got were motivated to enter by the incentive of the cash prize. So that can't just vanish because none of the designs is precisely right for market.
There are a couple of really good efforts in there, hopefully someone will snap them up even if they aren't right for UKC.
> (In reply to mattrm)
> [...]
>
> I think the point is that AJ and the team don't want a design which they don't like - cost is irrelevent.
>
> E
> [...]
>
> I think the point is that AJ and the team don't want a design which they don't like - cost is irrelevent.
>
> E
They could always commission a graphic designer if they're looking for that kind of control over the results. Throwing it open to the readership is always going to be a slightly unpredictable way of finding a product. I'm sure many of the 70-odd entries they got were motivated to enter by the incentive of the cash prize. So that can't just vanish because none of the designs is precisely right for market.
There are a couple of really good efforts in there, hopefully someone will snap them up even if they aren't right for UKC.
In reply to Enty:
I just wanted an UKC T shirt I don't care that much what desgn is on it lol
ps I didn't enter honest
> (In reply to mattrm)
> [...]
>
> I think the point is that AJ and the team don't want a design which they don't like - cost is irrelevent.
>
> E
> [...]
>
> I think the point is that AJ and the team don't want a design which they don't like - cost is irrelevent.
>
> E
I just wanted an UKC T shirt I don't care that much what desgn is on it lol
ps I didn't enter honest
In reply to Alun:
and will hence be unsaleable as soon as they next change the forum icons
> it reuses the cute artwork of the forums
and will hence be unsaleable as soon as they next change the forum icons
It is entirely Alan's (and the rest of the UKC people) choice to decide not to procede with making them in to T-shirts, however that doesn't stop them judging the competition and awarding whatever the prize was going to be.
If it wasn't made clear at the outset that if it wasn't taken to market etc then no prize would be awarded then it is a bit shoddy/naive to invite entries and then pull the prizes.
I thought that 50+ entries was more than I would have expected and similarly that expecting an average of 5 might have been unrealistic.
Good on Alan for re-thinking etc.
If it wasn't made clear at the outset that if it wasn't taken to market etc then no prize would be awarded then it is a bit shoddy/naive to invite entries and then pull the prizes.
I thought that 50+ entries was more than I would have expected and similarly that expecting an average of 5 might have been unrealistic.
Good on Alan for re-thinking etc.
In reply to MJH: Two words: May the best man win.
Having just sunk a cold one and re-read this thread what's wrong with:
"Hi everyone, thanks for entering the T-Shirt comp - unfortunatley all the entries were bobbins so we won't be giving any prizes out - get over it"
E
"Hi everyone, thanks for entering the T-Shirt comp - unfortunatley all the entries were bobbins so we won't be giving any prizes out - get over it"
E
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Grr. I'd have bought this http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=150233 in t-shirt and/or hoodie style. Really like it
Grr. I'd have bought this http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=150233 in t-shirt and/or hoodie style. Really like it
In reply to Alan James - UKC: Competition with no winner...piss poor. I did not take part as my entry would certainly been weak. However I agree with some posts above there should be a winner and a prize even if it is decided not worth producing the design for sale. Maybe a day return ticket to Fife ?
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Kind of went over my head that there was even a T shirt comp.
After reading through this thread and looking at the high quality and obvious time spent on some of the entries, your post appears to be pretty mean minded and churlish.
Would it really hurt to declare a winner and award a (small) prize after all the UKCers efforts?
This small act of decency instead of reneging on your own competition would not pre empt you from seeking out a professional commercial T shirt designer and having imput and control over the final product, if the entries arent up to scratch.
Do the right thing guys.
Kind of went over my head that there was even a T shirt comp.
After reading through this thread and looking at the high quality and obvious time spent on some of the entries, your post appears to be pretty mean minded and churlish.
Would it really hurt to declare a winner and award a (small) prize after all the UKCers efforts?
This small act of decency instead of reneging on your own competition would not pre empt you from seeking out a professional commercial T shirt designer and having imput and control over the final product, if the entries arent up to scratch.
Do the right thing guys.
In reply to David Hooper:
Everything you said, basically. I'm no artist, and didn't enter, but I'm suprised they couldn't find a winner to reward the effort of interaction with the site, even if it didn't merit a commercial productiion.
and especially:
Would it really hurt to declare a winner and award a (small) prize after all the UKCers efforts?
> (In reply to Alan James - UKC)
>
>
Everything you said, basically. I'm no artist, and didn't enter, but I'm suprised they couldn't find a winner to reward the effort of interaction with the site, even if it didn't merit a commercial productiion.
and especially:
Would it really hurt to declare a winner and award a (small) prize after all the UKCers efforts?
> >
> Do the right thing guys.
> Do the right thing guys.
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
The origional wording stated that the T-shirt with the highest voting would be created. I think it is important for the integrity of UKC that you stick to this.
The origional wording stated that the T-shirt with the highest voting would be created. I think it is important for the integrity of UKC that you stick to this.
In reply to Franco C:
Hi Franco - can you post a link to the original competition post/thread please?
Since becoming aware of the comp through this thread, I have searched for the original to see the terms of the comp, but cant seem to find it.
Cheers
David
Hi Franco - can you post a link to the original competition post/thread please?
Since becoming aware of the comp through this thread, I have searched for the original to see the terms of the comp, but cant seem to find it.
Cheers
David
In reply to David Hooper:
There's no use. UKC has changed the terms to, 'voting and UKCs pannel will decide a winner'.
It's just another case of authoritarian rule from the rockfax-overlords squashing the people's love for an excellent T-shirt.
There's no use. UKC has changed the terms to, 'voting and UKCs pannel will decide a winner'.
It's just another case of authoritarian rule from the rockfax-overlords squashing the people's love for an excellent T-shirt.
In reply to Franco C:
Franco - they may have a perfec tly good business reason not to choose any of the designs. BUT they should still designate and reward the winner. Reneging on this shows at the least a clumsy thoughtlessness and at the worst a cavalier contempt for the UKC community who put time and effort into the designs. No one likes people who renege on promises.
I really would have liked to have seen the original wording of the comp rules.
Voting can always be awkward on here and maybe not the best yardstick to choose a winner as people can vote in a humourous or "ornery" way rather thasn for the best piece of work. Ive done it myself in the past.
Cheers
David
Franco - they may have a perfec tly good business reason not to choose any of the designs. BUT they should still designate and reward the winner. Reneging on this shows at the least a clumsy thoughtlessness and at the worst a cavalier contempt for the UKC community who put time and effort into the designs. No one likes people who renege on promises.
I really would have liked to have seen the original wording of the comp rules.
Voting can always be awkward on here and maybe not the best yardstick to choose a winner as people can vote in a humourous or "ornery" way rather thasn for the best piece of work. Ive done it myself in the past.
Cheers
David
In reply to David Hooper: Google's cached version (dated 1st September) has this:
"The final decision will be made based on the votes received, plus a judging team consisting of the UKC editorial staff."
"The final decision will be made based on the votes received, plus a judging team consisting of the UKC editorial staff."
In reply to owlart:
That's what it always did say. Franco's just winding us all up again since his design got the most votes.
A prize will be awarded to Bec.
Alan
> (In reply to David Hooper) Google's cached version (dated 1st September) has this:
>
> "The final decision will be made based on the votes received, plus a judging team consisting of the UKC editorial staff."
>
> "The final decision will be made based on the votes received, plus a judging team consisting of the UKC editorial staff."
That's what it always did say. Franco's just winding us all up again since his design got the most votes.
A prize will be awarded to Bec.
Alan
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Good'o... that seems like a fair result, although not my favourite I think it was in my top 3-4.
Congrats Bec
Good'o... that seems like a fair result, although not my favourite I think it was in my top 3-4.
Congrats Bec
Loved the grades (Daithi), the belay device(bec) and my personal fave, the rope (tina).
Glad to see that a courtesy winner was chosen and will be rewarded, even if UKC feels that none of the designs were commercial.
Sx
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Thanks for running the competition anyway. I found the many hours getting inspiration for my design and then intricately planning and creating it most pleasant. It's just a shame that all those who loved Alan Manker's T-Shirt, which will probably be remembered as the greatest T-shirt of our time, will not have thier dreams of owning one realised. But thanks anyway and well done 'Bec'.
Thanks for running the competition anyway. I found the many hours getting inspiration for my design and then intricately planning and creating it most pleasant. It's just a shame that all those who loved Alan Manker's T-Shirt, which will probably be remembered as the greatest T-shirt of our time, will not have thier dreams of owning one realised. But thanks anyway and well done 'Bec'.
In reply to Alan James - UKC: I would definitely buy one of these - http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=147268
great design, but maybe I'd change the colour and have the crack up the other way.
great design, but maybe I'd change the colour and have the crack up the other way.
In reply to Franco C: Maybe we should look into a "unofficial" banned UKC T shirt which will be so sort after that it will undermine any official UKC T shirt.
Get the design to a local shirt printers, theres one at the top of out street and lets get it marketed.
I a sort of Relax - Frankie Goes to Hollywood Tee kind of way?
Get the design to a local shirt printers, theres one at the top of out street and lets get it marketed.
I a sort of Relax - Frankie Goes to Hollywood Tee kind of way?
In reply to Franco C: Me and my crew are psyched for getting some of the "Manker" tees. Decent blocs wear.
In reply to Franco C: Send me your design and I will see if I can get it made up. I bet you I could sell every one of them.
I'd like to see what T-SHIRT design UKC eventually commissions. I can't see how you can avoid the fact that climbing has alot of garish connotations which were quite ably represented in the designs. Not enough spandex?
At least nobody ripped off the evolution of man design that every bloody sport seems to do (*cough*my local climbing club ripped it off last year)
In reply to Jimmyjimjim:
bit like this sort of thing
http://www.milano-pro-sport.com/storeproduct1053.aspx
bit like this sort of thing
http://www.milano-pro-sport.com/storeproduct1053.aspx
In reply to Hannah S:
Yep, that would be the one.
Is there not one with the Leonardo Da Vinci proportions of human figure drawing with the bloke holding a chalk bag and with a rope on his back, or a beanie hat on.
If there isn't there bloody well should be, that would be cheese tastic.
Yep, that would be the one.
Is there not one with the Leonardo Da Vinci proportions of human figure drawing with the bloke holding a chalk bag and with a rope on his back, or a beanie hat on.
If there isn't there bloody well should be, that would be cheese tastic.
In reply to Alan James - UKC: Why not do a small print run of T's and see how they sell?
In reply to Alan James - UKC: I thought there were some brilliant designs. My fav was the Monkey T-Shirt i loved it, i wanted it to win because i would of bought that!
In reply to Alan James - UKC: Whilst none of the designs are very imaginitive, I think the one by Bec is the best of a bad lot.
Ian.
Ian.
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