UKC

Hi All

Over the past couple of weeks I've been asking the instructors at Ratho about the possibility of setting up a dedicated dry tooling area during the winter months. Last year the place was so cold from December to March that it was almost too painful to climb.

With winter almost upon us again, now would be a good time to start the ball rolling and see if we can get something organised. The arena is usually pretty quiet as people tend to stay away during the winter. Ratho has a reputation for being v cold, so it makes sense to me to offer something that allows you to keep your gloves, hat, puffer jacket and scarf on whilst climbing!

So, if you think that it would be a good idea for the EICA, could you either respond to this post, post on the EICA forum or tell the instructors that you would like to see it happen.

In reply to jacobfinn:

Sort of. Indoor tooling on Shmoolz or FigFours would be better I think. Drytooling involves all sorts of cordoning off, fences etc.

A few FigFour routes up the speed wall would be good. The angle is pretty much ideal. Get someone to hire out the tools.

In reply to jacobfinn: Sounds good,like you say its fairly quiet during the winter months,go for it.

In reply to jacobfinn:

Out of the question. Some of us brave the low temperatures to turn ourselves in to climbing machines, and there's the rest of us that go there for the coffee and bannana flapjacks.
I have no problem with the speed wall been changed though, never use it anyway.

In reply to John_10: I wasn't suggesting that the climbing machines have to suffer any more than they do by climbing at ratho through the winter. But as you'll know, there are acres of unused wall space for weeks on end. The new comp walls are virtually off-limits to most users of the place, and when its quiet in the winter, they get even less use. And as you say the speed wall is hardly used too.

Coffee and flapjacks would be unaffected.

I'd personally rather see the place well used. Dry tooling is another form of climbing, maybe not palatable or of interest to everyone, but I reckon that there would be a demand for it.

In reply to jacobfinn:

Yeah, would be interesting to have dry tooling/fig four rental at Ratho. I'd go.

In reply to jacobfinn: i would bite off your crampon to dry tool in the dry with a roof over my head but better make sure its top rope or your screwed

In reply to jacobfinn:

I've started your wee campaign on EICA forum and linked this thread

see this link

http://forum.eica-ratho.com/index.php?topic=987.0

SDB

In reply to ShinyDiscoBalls: Thanks SDB.

We need to focus on the positive reasons for having dry tooling at Ratho. Given how quiet it can get during the winter, and how little used the comp walls are, I don't think that space is an issue.

In reply to jacobfinn:

Sounds like a grand idea. I'd be up for that. Memories of Hadrians wall

In reply to jacobfinn:

Good idea, far too quiet in the winter months, if Tiso Glasgow Outdoor Experience can put up a dry tooling wall in a shop then I'm sure the EICA could too, count me in.

In reply to PeterM: Indeed.

In reply to jacobfinn:

Dunno about that, I have loads of fun on the massive overhang, despite only climbing around F6a+/F6b. And I don't go to Ratho much in the summer...

In reply to jacobfinn:
yeah, great idea. I would definitely be up for dry tooling. Ratho is so quiet in the winter as it is soooooo cold. I reckon it would prob drum up some extra business for them.

I go regularly in the winter, every thursday, and it is certainly NOT quiet. Especially after 7.30pm.

I would say the LHS of the new comp wall, maybe two lines (ropes) of routes would not impact on many users.

My kids use the speed wall as a benchmark, it's not that popular though.

Nick

In reply to Scott_vzr: I was thinking of something a bit more ambitious than two lines. Maybe if we got some support going for this, we'd get a different type of climbing to offer everyone rather than just grudgingly giving up some precious space to a bunch of weirdos who want to do something different?

Ratho is a huge place, and there is ample space for leading, top-roping, bouldering and dry tooling.

I don't want this topic to deteriorate into the usual abuse but climbers really are a contrary bunch. I've been going to Ratho since it opened, and I can categorically state that I've been there on winter evenings, after 7.30pm, and it has been totally dead. I've also been there when its been busy too. So there you go.

In reply to jacobfinn: i agree, last two winters were dead when it was sub zero,although im not complaining about lack of queues i would rather hold tools with gloves than crimp on frozen plastic.

In reply to jacobfinn:

It's not though, that's the problem. It looks huge but it all faces in the way - there is really not much usable space that has not got something in it already. Also getting the Edinburgh Leisure to agree to put money into a sub-genre of a niche sport seems unlikely at the moment.

Much better (I think) to work with what is there and se how popular this actually is in practise.

In reply to hexcentric: in the summer your right but winter is a diff ball game, and i dont think time to put carpet behind some holds would be to costly. (and it might bring in some revenue)

In reply to hexcentric: I started this topic to try to gauge interest in getting dry tooling at Ratho during the winter. I know that there are a whole set of practicalities that can be put forward to prevent it happening.

All I am asking is "would you be interested in Ratho putting up some dry tooling lines?" Yes or no.

If there is enough interest, then we can say to the staff that we would like it. They can then worry about how it might happen.

I don't see the point in talking ourselves out of it happening before we even ask?

For what it's worth, I've discussed this idea with ratho instructors and with Tiso staff, and they were positive about it. Now, I would like to find out from the folk who use Ratho if they too are interested. Just a yes or no would be good enough now.

In reply to jacobfinn:

Yes.

In reply to Removed User:

Another yes from us!

Yup I would certainly use it and am a Ratho user!

In reply to jacobfinn:

As long as I can still enjoy my session without worrying about falling pieces of sharp metal : )

Thats a yes from me too if thats the case : P

In reply to jacobfinn:

Big yes from me to

In reply to jacobfinn:

I would have no probs in principle for the featured arete to be used for something along those lines, or any of the top rope lines or the speed wall, but not the high lead walls. It's difficult enough getting on lines you want to sometimes during the winter without some of it being cordoned off. Personally I (and I know for a fact the folk I go to ratho with will agree) would be unhappy driving down from Angus and paying my entry fee and finding some of the main lead areas being cordoned off. I don't mind it for comps as it brings in money for the place but beyond that it starts to get annoying.

If it were training with schmools and nothing is cordoned off then I think it's a fab idea.

Just my honest thoughts/opinion (and I actually do like dry tooling though and if there were another way of doing it I'd be right behind you).

In reply to jacobfinn:

My mates would seriously disagree......

In reply to jacobfinn:


Hi Jacobfinn, SDB etc

I'm the arena manager at Ratho, and would like to let you know where things stand with dry tooling options. We are looking at providing a small area dedicated to top roping with Shmoolz/ Fig Fours, probably on the right side of the Sardinian Pillar. Tisos are willing to get in some tools for hire, and we will create a seperate disclaimer for people using this area.

Usage wise Ratho, like any other wall, is busier during the winter than the summer, and whilst we do have a slight dip in users during late December and Early January which seems to be the coldest time of year, we do have a lot of 'normal' climbers coming in throughout the year. Depending on the popularity of the 'Shmooling area' and the impact on 'normal' climbers, we may look at the options for extending the area. Please bear with us as this may take a week or two to get sorted.

Nic

In reply to whispering nic:

perfect. Everybody's happy!!!

In reply to jacobfinn: I would be extremely psyched!! They let you use FigFours on top rope and bouldering at the moment which is awesome and there are loads of suitable lines for them. To be able to use tools would be a bonus!

In reply to whispering nic: Thanks for the response Nic.

My own preference would be for a space to use technical axes rather than Shmoolz or Fig Fours. I know from discussions with staff at the EICA that using tools has many issues that would need to be resolved, with safety of the users paramount.

I accept that whatever space was given over to dry tooling would impact on the space available for leading or top roping.

However, I would like to think that dry tooling would add an extra activity to Ratho rather than taking wall space away from 'normal' climbers. I'm a normal climber, and I enjoy leading, top roping and bouldering. I would like to try dry tooling in the relative safety of an indoor wall, particularly when the cold during winter is an issue for "normal" indoor climbing.

Maybe though we have to start with Shmoolz to see what the interest would be, and see if it could develop into proper dry tooling?

In reply to jacobfinn:

After moving to Scotland, I'm almost set for my first winter season. The only practice or use of my axes will be the Scottish Tooling Series ( http://www.scottishtoolingseries.co.uk/ ).

I haven't yet been to Ratho but I would be there in a flash to use my metal tipped fingers. I got to trial a pair of Shmoolz (or similar) at the beginning of the year down at Mile End. They are great, but they lack the placement technique that picks require.

How would it work with Shmoolz, would we need to bring our own?

Cheers G

Hi Jason, chatted to you at Ratho yesterday eve.

Tooling at Ratho with proper pointy things would be great - a few pals and me have been playing with Alpkit Figfours there for a while and theyve not had any problems with that. It gets so cold for the fingers in there that rock climbing not really much too fun sometimes - have found the Figfours great training for different muscles with some quite challenging and routes to try.

In reply to Sam Burns:
They might consider a dedicated top rope or lead line with Ice Holds.
There's a short video of them in use on our blog.

http://www.theclimbingacademy.com/blog

In reply to The Climbing Academy:

Had a look at the video & it looked good. How do the holds hold up to repeated use though? I seem to remember the ones at the ice factor started to look really shabby pretty quickly i.e. after one comp

Bill

In reply to jacobfinn:

I would definitely use a dry tooling facility at ratho, cant face the -6 deg temps (if my phone thermometer is correct) we got last year in the arena.

Paul

In reply to Bill Davidson:

Hi Bill, the holds are made with two different composites. The picks penetrate the outer shell about a quarter inch before being stopped by the harder inner backing. Obviously the smaller holds (Splats and Blobs) will roughen up long before the bigger ones (North American & Himalayan series).
They are still usable though and can also be turned giving three other faces to further extend their life.
When completely worn through the outer shell can be replaced for another, considerably reducing the cost.

In reply to The Climbing Academy:

Cool, Cheers

In reply to Paul Manson:

If its -6 couldnt someone (go on Bill just leave one of the taps on upstairs, you would soon have a real ice cascade!

Lol

In reply to Speedy_Gonzales:

Like the one that formed next to the Hanger Wall last winter you mean...

I kid you not Another week & I'd have been up it!

In reply to Speedy_Gonzales:

Was at the tooling comp on sat, -7deg C during the finals apparently!

didn't stop a cracking finale on the old comp wall, but a bit cold without a down jacket and gloves, roll on a few tooling lines