UKC

Hi

I know that a few people on here have, like me, had problems with eating disorders, stress or depression. I wondered if anyone would be willing to tell me (by email or on here) if this has affected them when filling in a health questionnaire for taking up a new job. I know I need to be honest in the questionnaire, and there's no question of me not putting down everything I have to, but I'm terrified that they might say I'm unfit to work or something, so would appreciate any reassurance that the people who read these questionnaires will accept that I'm a human being and that seeking help for problems and to get you through difficult patches is not a sign of being unable to do a job (I have been in full time school/uni education throughout and got good grades/degree/nearly finished PhD).

Thanks
Cat

In reply to freerangecat:
mental health problems should be classed as a disability and therefore cannot be discriminated against.

In reply to freerangecat:
i have no direct evidence (because they'll never tell you if it was a problem). I think now you don't have to declare age and medical.

In reply to freerangecat:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/Employmentsupport/LookingForWork...

In reply to freerangecat: In reply to freerangecat:
and if it's an issue that's being treated, then it's 'fixed'/controlled. Like wearing glasses.
good luck, and try not to fret too much about it. i know you want to be honest, but the world unfortunately doesn't work like that. If you can do the job, you can do the job. if problems crop up later, you & your boss should deal with them then, in the present, rather than what happened in the past. x

In reply to freerangecat:

To clarify, I've been offered the job, conditional on references and a medical questionnaire. This includes the question "have you ever suffered from any mental health problems including (but not limited to) stress, depression, anxiety, phobias, eating disorders or addiction". I have a not great mental health history, but have been in full time education/uni throughout and was never hospitalised or anything, I worked but sometimes needed help/anti depressants. If they don't think I'm capable, health-wise, of doing the job they can legally refuse me it. It doesn't count as a disability I don't think (and that would be a whole new can of worms if I described it as such). I think it will be ok, but it's a bit scary so I was hoping for some reassurance from anyone who's been in a similar situation.

Thanks
Cat

In reply to freerangecat: Google "disability discrimination act 2010", you'll find loads of info.

Came into effect in October and for your job offer to be now withdrawn on the basis of information you provide is more hassle than they need. Be honest, it's always the best approach in the long term

In reply to imkevinmc:

Thanks, I was hoping that might be the case.

In reply to freerangecat:

Cat. Dont bother telling them anything. Unless they are actually looking to contact your GP directly for records it is very unlikely the information they are looking for is required for the job.

In reply to Milesy:

I can't lie on the questionnaire. I just had a chat to the Mind legal advice line, who said to be honest, with a positive 'spin' of what I've achieved during the time and how it hasn't affected my ability to work, and that they'd have to put up a very good case for withdrawing the job offer based on what I disclose as I could take them to tribunal for it.

In reply to Milesy: That is terrible advice.

These questionnaires ask for details of GP so that they can check. If Cat says nothing and they happen to check, it could become very tricky.

Cat - I would say declare it. e.g. "Depression with treatment - controlled. Please feel free to contact my GP". And then you can get a letter from your GP saying that whatever it is/was is controlled and has no effect on your ability to work.

Honesty wins in this situation.

In reply to freerangecat:
A bad predicament.
I wonder how many people who feel in the need of medical help for this kind of condition, do not seek it for fear of future repercussions, and because of this have serious impacts on their life, when early or any treatment could have helped them.
All the best.
sjc

In reply to freerangecat:

I don't know how much help this is, but I had mild depression some years ago. When I got my current job I put this on the medical form thing. I still have the job.

(I hope I'm not going to start a huge argument by using the expression "mild depression"; but IMHO 1 week off work and 6 months or so on pills isn't a lot compared with what some people go through.)

In reply to freerangecat:
Hi Cat, I have dyslexia and have always wondered about this type of thing. I have come across things like this before, a friend once said that "they cant discriminate against you if you declare it, but they can sack you later for lying on you application form if you dont declare it". Providing false information and all that. You would be legally in a very good place if they dont give you the job now, becuase of something on your medical application, as they have to make "reasonable adjustments" to help you. Most medical forms are from a occupation health point of view, things like monitoring repository problems, that could be made worse by the job if the member of staff is not properly cared for. Good luck, and remember that Florence nightingale is suspected to have suffered with depression.

In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

You tell yourself that but having been in the situation as much as companies tried to me fair and equal - we are no way near beating the social stigma. What the hell is it to an employer what my past history is?? Would they want to know if I have broken a leg in the past?

In reply to Milesy:

I tend to agree with you.

In reply to Milesy: So, we hide it and don't improve the situation with the stigma then?

"we are no way near beating the social stigma."

its called being open and honest and education. IF we hide things like this then the "social stigma will always win. thats coming from a male, dyslexia, bearded, motorbike riding, vegetarian, student nurse. I get, are you gay, thick, a metal head evil satanic layabout, or hippy, all the time, if the people suffering from the stigmatized condition dont challenge it then noone ever will.

In reply to freerangecat:
I would argue that unless you think it will impair your ability to do the job or you are going to be working with vulnerable individuals, i.e working with children, then you can be quite non-specific. The GP will not reveal anything to your work without your consent (unless again you are going to be working with a vulnerable group).

In reply to Milesy:


You may not consider it any of their business but if a potential employer asks there are three choices:

• Don't take the job.


• Lie, and risk being found out, especially if the problem happens to you again at some point, you could then be sacked quite legitimately for the original lie and wouldn't have a particularly strong case if you wanted to go to a tribunal.


• Tell the truth and trust that the employer will abide by the law.
  

Since Cat has already been offered the job, the third option is clearly best, if the employer withdrew the job offer upon receipt of the medical history it would not look good at a tribunal, and they would know it.

In reply to freerangecat: I've been honest in my applications with a history of stress and depression leading to CBT (which was great) and psychiatric specialist intervention, (which was guff but hey ho), and the most I had after being offered a job was to be invited for a medical interview. I was worried but was quickly reassured that the purpose of the medical was for the employer to be given advice on how to help me if problems arose. It actually made me more positive about working for that organisation. Dealing with mental ill health is hard, a constant reminder to take care of myself. Be honest with them but brief as others have said, and you'll have less to worry about and more to look forward to. Good luck in your new job Cat!!

Tom

In reply to the all:

Thanks for the advice and the good wishes for the job. It is an interesting topic of debate, as a few posters have said earlier, and there are definitely some prejudices still surrounding mental illness. I do think honesty is the best policy, but will bear in mind the need to be brief and positive in how I describe things.

Thanks
Cat

In reply to freerangecat:

Put a positive spin on it.

You hit a problem, chose to acknowledge it, got help and got better, all the whilst holding down full time education/university.

I think that that should stand in you in the best stead.

In reply to Milesy:


I'd agree with that. You sound like a very open sort of person but for many/most people their medical history is a very private affair that they don't share with even close friends let alone an employer.

I guess if you've still got problems now they might need to know if it will affect something like safety in some way. Otherwise it's none of their business.

In reply to freerangecat:

If you had a problem of this nature but it didn't stop you from working then is it something that's worth raising? By analogy, if you suffer from the odd stomach upset but it doesn't keep you off work then it's not an issue your employer needs to know about. If it meant that you are regularly on sick leave then it is and you should tell them.

What's the worst that can happen if you tell them? You don't get the job.

What's the worst that can happen if you don't tell them? You lose your job after a debilitating recurrence of the same illness.

In reply to freerangecat: Hi Cat, I was just thinking about you! First of all congratulations on IT and now also congratulations on the job offer! Really pleased to hear it

I'd second the honest approach with a positive slant, especially the part about submitting within your funding period etc. The mnental health bods here say that MIND's advice should be spot on on this.

In reply to freerangecat: Check this, it sums it up nicely. Remember, the act only became effective in October, but it pulls together a lot of legislation that was already in place. I think you'll be OK

http://www.cipd.co.uk/subjects/dvsequl/disability/disandemp.htm?IsSrchRes=1

In reply to freerangecat:
Wow, what a coincidence. I have just come back from lunch and my current manager was there too, chatting with our ex-manager and this sort of thing was mentioned.

From what I can gather, only certain people will be made aware of your past mental health issues (ie, Occupatinal Health). They will be able to give advice to the employer regarding the suitability of the job for you, and if frankly it is likely to damage or exacerbate any previous condition/injury, then the recommendation may be that the job offer is withdrawn. This is perfectly legal; the onus is on the employer to ensure that they aren't inadvertently going to damage you any further. My employer had a case like this recently, but was with regards to the physical unsuitability of the person for the job; we were threatened with, then taken to tribunal quite swiftly (and suspiciously; it was suspected that the person concerned was pulling a bit of a fast one). The day before it went to court, the case collapsed and the person withdrew their claim. Although this person had had a job offer tendered to them, it was subject to a health check, and it was found that with his health impairments (back problems, angina, grossly overweight, etc) the job (a physically demanding one) had a high risk of damaging him further, even with adjustments in place. The job offer was therefore withdrawn.

The other side of the coin is that if you are employed, in post, and similar issues raise their head at you again, it helps the employer to support you and assist you in getting the right help/support, early rather than later. Since the Black and Boorman reports, large employers are under pressure (as are all, but the smaller employers tend to ignore a lot of good stuff) to do all they can to put in supportive systems (eg equipment, changes to work patterns, shift patterns, lengths of shifts, flexible working, etc) keep people at work and look at their strengths rather than their weaknesses. Workers are incredibly valuable beings, believe it or not and we don't want to lose what we have! Although there is a legal requirement to make "reasonable adjustments" to the workplace and work systems where possible to accommodate various physical and mental issues, it is not a requirement to do so to the 'nth' degree or where there is a detrimental effect on work colleagues.

I know on balance that this looks a bit grim, it really isn't; by being honest you are ensuring that you really are going to be the best person for the job, and job is the best job for you. Being honest helps employers to get the best fit and ensure that in the long run, they get the best out of you by NOT exacerbating existing injuries/issues you may have.

Good luck,

Sx

In reply to steve webster:






Not overtly discriminated against... Some companies guarantee you an interview if you have a disability, however there is a difference having an interview than getting the actual job.

In reply to steve webster:




Who ever made that rule was surely a beneficiary of positive discrimination

In reply to trevor simpson:

yes and rightly so. how else are people going to experience meeting people with disabilities critically and seeing if they can see the person behind the name?

In reply to thin bob:


People are too keen to give their "disabilities" a name.

Everyone is a bit mad, insecure and not always ecstatically happy, claiming to be bi-polar or depressed, for example, is just attention seeking and should be discouraged.

The only worthwhile so-called "mental disability" is Tourettes. I'd happily see all of these guys working on TV/radio or in call centres.

I also think they should end the policy of positively discriminating for sexual psychopaths to be taxi drivers, it's not really fair on women.

In reply to trevor simpson:


Don't forget lorry drivers.

In reply to all:

Thanks again. I've just found a house to rent (went there this afternoon to see it/put down deposit), so fingers crossed the form will all be ok and I'll be all sorted.

To the person who said I was open with my medical history, I've discussed things on here before, usually when people have asked about mental health stuff, and no-one who doesn't know me properly knows enough details to put all of the facts together about who I am and where I will be working. I did think about it first though. I'd appreciate it if no-one played detective and posted everything they can find out though please I wont ask where the nearest climbing wall is until I get safely into the job! Mainly though, the world will be a better place when people don't feel that they have to keep this sort of thing a secret, or worry that they'll lose a job offer over it.

Thanks again
Cat

In reply to trevor simpson:

You mean except for people who actually are bi-polar or depressed, and living in hell?

In reply to freerangecat: I put my ADHD down and had to go and have a little chat with occupational health, who seemed quite bemused, asked if I had ever had time off, (no and they already had that on my application form) asked utterly irrelevant questions about a very minor operation that was a one off years ago, and generally faffed about a bit. Try not to worry. Oh and I had to get a letter from my doctor saying its all fine.

In reply to freerangecat: LIE. End of. My brother in law used to work for the head of a local authority that lied, they sued for for a few hundred grand for doing this (after she went off with stress) and they lost.

In reply to bomb:

Agreed. I am hoping that Mr Simpson was being ironic, sadly there's enough people around who genuinely think that mental illness is a joke.

Give me a choice between depression or bi-polar disorder and, say, a brace of broken legs and similarly broken arms, I'd say bring on the sledgehammer.

Mental illness is hell. I speak from someone who has never suffered but been very close to those that have.

In reply to John_Hat:

when your finished with the sledgehammer pass it over here

In reply to freerangecat:

I'd be honest. In the long term would you want to work for a company that discriminated against someone because in the past they had mental health problems. I certainly wouldn't.

Not sure why they are asking that question routinely.

In reply to steve webster:


In the first instance, apologies that I have not answered the original question by the OP.

Idiotic comment above.

Mental health problems should not be classed as a disability. It would be so easy to shelve them into this category, they just need more understanding and tolerance by those who think they know what they are and haven't really experienced them.

What would happen if you were diagnosed Bi-Polar (a "mental health" problem) would you expect to be and happy to be classified as disabled?

In reply to Denni: Its not "idiotic" and its not up to you to decide what is or isn't or should or shouldn't be classed as disabled, and its certainly not about "being happy" about it.

Disability is defined something that causes substantial and long-term adverse effect on someone's ability to perform normal day-to-day activities. Bipolar to take your example is something that could certainly fit in that category.

In reply to Denni:

As I discovered when I rang Mind, the fact that mental illness (if you're experience of it fit certain criteria) is classed as a disability means that your workplace is legally obliged to make 'reasonable changes' to support you in your day-to-day life, like flexitime or, in the case of my brother's aspergers, to give him extra leeway when they make big changes to something that affects his daily working life. When they changed the computer systems in the company they stopped measuring his performance for a week or so to give him time to comfortably get used to it without having to feel rushed or under pressure. (I know aspergers isn't a mental illness, but this was something that caused him mental anguish).

It isn't about just labelling someone and leaving them to get on with it, it's about giving them a means to access support.

Cat

In reply to freerangecat:

Well I stand corrcted then.

However I know and have worked with a lot of people who have a mental illness of some sort, 4 of them Bi-Polar, and not one of them are classed as disabled or indeed assume they should be.

Maybe it is a individual company thing to decide if they are or not disabled?

In reply to marsbar:


Maybe you're right. Maybe it's not up to me to decide who is or who Isn't disabled due to their mental health, but who should decide then?

I don't think a company should have the right to make that decision either do you? If you are going to make a decison based on someone's mental health and you class them as disabled, what if they disagree with you?
One of my best friends has Bi-Polar and can frankly be a mare, but I guarantee if someone said she was disabled, she would hit the roof!

Too many folk these days have to have a label for something or other, and I'm certainly not making light of mental illness or any other condition, but I don't think it should be classed as a disability. Seems discriminatory to me, but I'm sure people will disagree, hey ho.

In reply to Denni: In this context its a clearly defined legal definition. From a more personal point of view it becomes a matter of identity and this is much more emotive. People don't want the label necessarily but take it to access what they need. I would love the stigma of all this gone and that's partly why I am open about mine, I am fairly successful all things considered and I don't have 2 heads and maybe I can help change attitudes a bit.

In reply to marsbar:

Totally agree with you on the emotive side of things, that is why I get emotional, specifically on this subject.

I'll need to tell my friend she can have a blue sticker for her car! ;0)

In reply to Denni: patst! I understand your friends feelings and I think that you are right in some ways about a lot of this but I have to run so later....