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Cooking in Scottish winter conditions

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 Iwan 08 Nov 2010
Subject to the weather, I'll be spending a few 5 day long spells in the Scottish hills walking and climbing. I plan to camp away from civilisation as much as possible. What are your suggestions for the lightest possible menu that'll provide me with about 3000 Kcals per day?
I appreciate that dehydrated foods are light but does the need to carry extra fuel to melt snow largely counter this advantage?
I'll be flying to Scotland so won't be able to take my trusty Svea 123 stove. Will a liquid feed gas stove be the best alternative?

Can you suggest something better than my porridge, homemade biltong and Supernoodle menu?

Thanks in advance.
almost sane 08 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan:
http://www.lookwhatwefound.co.uk/ do really tasty food that you can boil in the bag. Even better (for me), most of their stuff is gluten-free.

I find you can bulk it out and still have a tasty meal by emptying the contents into a pan, adding a bit of water, then adding instant mashed potato until I get the right consistency.

For desert (and sometimes for breakfast) custard is great - quick and easy and filling and warming. I have it with a (gluten-free) cake, or some chocolate.

Hot chocolate is another favourite - warmth and calories and liquids.

Instant cuppa soup is a winner. There is a big range of taste, quality and price, so its worth experimenting.

Hope you have a good trip
Removed User 08 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan:

There's a reason why Scottish cuisine is so rough...

The wind can't get in a deep fat fryer.
Removed User 08 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan:

Polenta
Saucisson for flavour and fat
Dried banana/pineapple/papaya as well as raisins
Powdered energy drinks and electrolyte tablets (I'm a big fan of the latter)
Unless there is an unusual amoutn of snow you should have little trouble finding clean running water even if you have to break some ice to get at it.

Bon appetit
estivoautumnal 08 Nov 2010
In reply to Removed User:
> (In reply to Iwan)
>
> There's a reason why Scottish cuisine is so rough...
>
> The wind can't get in a deep fat fryer.

That's a bit of an ignorant and un-educated view of Scottish cuisine. We have many qulity dishes compared to, say Yorkshire. Well, you have puddings. And, em, well, you have puddings.















 veteye 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan:
Would pasta and small cans of fish plus some dried herbs serve in any degree?(You don't need much fish)Small packets powder sauces may help.
Oatmeal rather than porridge oats may be quicker to cook.Just pour on boiling water onto a little with a small amount of butter +/- salt +/- a little sugar.Use for breakfast or to end main meal.
 Jamie B 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan:

Some good suggestions. I'd add couscous; I dont think you'll get close to the same carbs for so little gas, and the flavoured packs are virtually a meal in themselves.
 eschaton 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan: biltong? the dirty b....
 thomm 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan:
Your own menu sounds pretty good. I favour quick-cook pasta that comes in small pieces that you can shovel up with a spoon, drain half the water, sprinkle in a cuppa soup and an oxo cube.. soups and hot chocs are good for hydration, when gulping down icy water is unappetising. Also peperamis suddenly become palatable..
Wild camping in scottish winter is tough due to the short days - take a good light for your tent, or a harmonica or tin whistle for entertainment in darkness..
 fionn 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Removed User:
> (In reply to Iwan)
>
> There's a reason why Scottish cuisine is so rough...
>
> The wind can't get in a deep fat fryer.

Awa n bile yer heid
 niggle 09 Nov 2010
In reply to thomm:

> Wild camping in scottish winter is tough due to the short days

Good advice. It'll be dark by 7 and it won't be light again until 8 the next morning. Plenty of head torch batteries and some whisky will be a great help if you're going alone.
 Jim Lancs 09 Nov 2010
Remember that fats are a good source of calories when winter camping. Take along butter to add to your porridge and pasta plus cheese, real marzipan and peanut butter.
 fionn 09 Nov 2010
In reply to niggle:
> (In reply to thomm)
>
> [...]
>
> Good advice. It'll be dark by 7 and it won't be light again until 8 the next morning.

That's optimistic!

'though the whisky tip is a winner

 OMR 09 Nov 2010
In reply to niggle:
It'll be dark by 7 and it won't be light again until 8 the next morning. Plenty of head torch batteries and some whisky will be a great help if you're going alone.

Dark by 7? Try 4 or 4.30.
 rusty_nails 09 Nov 2010
In reply to niggle:
> (In reply to thomm)
>
> [...]
>
> Good advice. It'll be dark by 7 and it won't be light again until 8 the next morning.

Try dark at around 4 and not light till around 8 the next day!
Tim Chappell 09 Nov 2010
In reply to rusty_nails:


This thread has reminded me how much I hate camping. Mountaineering I love, but tents? And cooking stoves? Someone else can do all that stuff. I'd rather pay to spend the very, very, very long Scottish winter evening somewhere with reading lamps, bookcases, leather armchairs, open fires, and home cooking. And a bar. And large fluffy beds.
 niggle 09 Nov 2010
In reply to OMR:

> Dark by 7? Try 4 or 4.30.

Well, not just yet i don't think (it's a few years since I lived in Inverness). But later on, sure.
Tim Chappell 09 Nov 2010
In reply to niggle:

At the moment it's light roughly 730 to 5, in Dundee.
 Mark Bull 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Tim Chappell:

> This thread has reminded me how much I hate camping. Mountaineering I love, but tents? And cooking stoves? Someone else can do all that stuff. I'd rather pay to spend the very, very, very long Scottish winter evening somewhere with reading lamps, bookcases, leather armchairs, open fires, and home cooking. And a bar. And large fluffy beds.

I'm with you on this one! The inability to get anything dry and the long hours of darkness are too much for a wimp like me: I perform much better on the hill if I've had a good night's sleep in a warm bed.


 Banned User 77 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Mark Bull: Whilst I agree, its something to be experienced. Makes sat snug and warm having a beer, clothes drying in the drying room, log fire roaring, even more satisfying...
 Milesy 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan:

Any Scot can live a fortnight in winter on just Tablet
 nniff 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Ed Boyter:
> (In reply to Hardonicus)
> [...]
>
> Awa n bile yer heid


Another fine Scots delicacy I presume?
 Calum Nicoll 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan: Lard. However it is hard to eat on it's own. Pemmican weighs more but is still quite unpleasant. Adding dried fruit and oats to pemmican is alright. Perhaps you could make pemmican using butter instead of lard, it wont keep as long but that wont be a problem for a week in winter.


3000 calories is very little for winter.


 Lucy Wallace 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan:
Lots of good suggestions here. Not sure if anyone has mentioned instant custard yet. Indoors it is evil but poured over fruit cake when camping its ace. Just add boiling water.
I've recently been getting back in to museli, but this time with powdered milk already added plus extra chocolate raisins. Again, add hot water to make it warm. Nicer than porridge.
Normally should be able to find running water, but not always- depends on conds.
 hamsforlegs 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan:

Health shops normally stock little metal trays of Halwa. It's basically made of sesame fat and sugar and packs an unbelievable calorific punch for its weight. I use it on mountain marathons for overnight warmth and good pep on day two.

Try it first though; I love it but my girlfriend can't stand the stuff.

I'm also a big fan of the Science in Sport recovery drink called 'Rego', made up really thick and strong with hot water. It's kind of like hot chocoloate on steroids.

I reckon an MP3 player and some audio books could be your friend...

Mark
 Jim Fraser 09 Nov 2010
In reply to The Gibbon:
> (In reply to Iwan)
> ...
> I've recently been getting back in to museli, but this time with powdered milk already added plus extra chocolate raisins. Again, add hot water to make it warm. Nicer than porridge. ...

Yes. In the Highlands this would be classed as a form of brose. I tend to have a bag of oatmeal or premix if I am away anywhere. I usually use Hamblins rolled oats and often mix it with flaked almonds and raisins along with a good quality powdered milk. "Good quality powdered milk": well that can be a struggle but follow-on or toddler baby milk will do you no harm a few days a year and you can buy it in any supermarket. The resulting mix only needs water and it can be hot or cold. Nothing will get more calories into you much better than oats: if it was good enough for Alexander's army and the roman legions it should do well for mountaineers. Add whatever nuts and dried fruits you prefer to give it the desired flavour.
OP Iwan 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan:

Would whey protein be ok to mix in with the porridge?
 hwackerhage 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan:

From Wikipedia: 'Fats and ethanol have the greatest amount of food energy per mass, 9 and 7 kcal/g (38 and 30 kJ/g) respectively. Proteins and most carbohydrates have about 4 kcal/g (17 kJ/g)'. That's why Scottish cuisine is rich in fat and ethanol!

Spend some nights in bothies for more comfort and to semi-dry things.
 Niall 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Ed Boyter:
> (In reply to Hardonicus)
> [...]
>
> Awa n deep fry yer heid


Fixed it for ya
 subalpine 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan: the sun never sets if you have a niggle with you..
estivoautumnal 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan:
So forgetting my previously negative reply (booze induced)it's pasta and just pasta. A jar of pesto and a tin of sweetcorn may sound basic but it works every time.
Just make sure you enjoy the fine dining that we have to offer. It's been a long time in comming but we now have some of the finest dining experiences in the UK. Drop me an email if you want a few reccomendatons of good places to eat in the highlands after you finish your walk.
Alex Purser 09 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan:

My standard away from home food is pasta, tinned fish, tin of sweetcorn and some sort of flavour (pesto, foil chinese sauces etc). One pan, one piece of cutlery and no need to drain the pasta when you get used to water and pasta quantities.

Don't tend to bother with cooked desserts. Chocolate or fruit does fine. Fruit can go in porridge too.
 Jamie B 10 Nov 2010
In reply to Tim Chappell:

> This thread has reminded me how much I hate camping. Mountaineering I love, but tents? And cooking stoves? Someone else can do all that stuff. I'd rather pay to spend the very, very, very long Scottish winter evening somewhere with reading lamps, bookcases, leather armchairs, open fires, and home cooking. And a bar. And large fluffy beds.

You can do that stuff anytime. Waking up with the Dru-like sweep of the Shelterstone above you is however a rarer pleasure and takes a bit more work to achieve.

Personally I think that on a good dry night, with the right kit, 12 hours "trapped" in a tent is pure luxury. I never normally get the chance to have that much snooze-time or uninterupted book-reading.

However if you camp down with wet kit which you are unable to dry out, and have to spend the whole night being kept awake by wind, wondering whether the tent will survive, followed by a miserable morning getting back into aforementioned wet kit, you'll wonder why you bothered.

 CurlyStevo 10 Nov 2010
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:
"However if you camp down with wet kit which you are unable to dry out, and have to spend the whole night being kept awake by wind, wondering whether the tent will survive, followed by a miserable morning getting back into aforementioned wet kit, you'll wonder why you bothered."

So in fairness it may take a few trips to achieve navana then

My first season I only camped really. It wasn't the nights that bothered me, but the mornings could be harsh. Making breaky in -8 temps is hard work !
 Billhook 11 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan:

You are not going to starve or suffer ill-effects if you can't stuff your face with 3000 cals per day anyway over a five day period.
 Calum Nicoll 12 Nov 2010
In reply to Dave Perry:
> (In reply to Iwan)
>
> You are not going to starve or suffer ill-effects if you can't stuff your face with 3000 cals per day anyway over a five day period.

Completely wrong.
 The New NickB 12 Nov 2010
In reply to Calum Nicoll:
> (In reply to Dave Perry)
> [...]
>
> Completely wrong.

You are, but what is your point.
Tim Chappell 12 Nov 2010
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:
> (In reply to Tim Chappell)
>
> [...]
>
> You can do that stuff anytime. Waking up with the Dru-like sweep of the Shelterstone above you is however a rarer pleasure and takes a bit more work to achieve.


Actually I can't stay in e.g. the Earl of Fife or the Clachaig any time... my wife won't let me.

But I totally agree about the Dru-like sweep of the Shelterstone. The reason I camp, when I do, is always to get somewhere I can't get to any other way. Climbing out of the tent in a chilly dawn and looking up at the skyline of Garbh-Choire or Srath na Sealga... yes, it is hard to beat. Despite the bloody camping.
 Al Evans 12 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan: Fruit cake (especially Xmas cake) fried in butter was a mainstay of UK himalayam climbers in the 70's.
 Alex Slipchuk 12 Nov 2010
In reply :

There is no other way than to understand the following

8 calories equates to 1 gram of fat. 4 calories equates to 1 gram of protein and 6 calories equates to 1 gram of carbs. This simply means that there is no light way of carrying 3000 calories. Remember that water has no calories. As a rule of thumb 5000 calories is 1kg of food with no water. Low calorie meals don't exist. You just buy less and pay more. Low calorie is just a con. Simply weigh your food and 600g per day roughly is 3000calories water does not count. Hope this helps. Ps you should be on about 5000 a day as you will use about 2000 just keeping warm

 Alex Slipchuk 12 Nov 2010
In reply to Iwan: should have said. It doesn't matter what you eat it should weigh 600g dry. So just eat what you want and weigh it subtract the weight of the water content. Keep it balanced and you will be ok.
almost sane 12 Nov 2010
In reply to zipworld:

I tend to work on 1kg per day when planning. This allows for foods which have a reasonable amount of water in them: I prefer boil-in-the-bag meals because they taste so good, even though it puts up the weight somewhat.

And I agree about the 5,000 calories per day. If you don't eat enough, you will be cold and miserable, especially overnight. Over a period of a few days this will affect your energy and your judgement. It is better to have a bit more food than you need than having a bit less.

Any eejit can suffer.
 Siward 12 Nov 2010
In reply to almost sane:
I haven't read all of the above posts so apologies for any repetition. For the length of time you will be camping I would get hold of a liquid fuel stove running on, e.g . paraffin. That way you can cook some decent, warming meals withought having to be too frugal on the fuel.

Rice and dhal is good camp food- takes a while to cook which is good during those 16hr nights. Uses less fuel than you might imagine.
Fried sardines+oatcakes
Cous cous with some fried bits of french/italian saucisson in it
 Joss 12 Nov 2010
In reply to Siward:

I'd definately utilise dehydrated food if going lightweight is a priority otherwise your bag will weigh a ton. You can save on fuel by soaking some of the food in a container first, early on in the day (hot or cold water) this reduces your cooking time and fuel consumption when you come to reheating it.

In addition, bring the food to the boil then use a 'Pot Cosy System', wrap the pot in a Thermawrap (silver jiffy bubble wrap) and leaving for 15 mins saves on the fuel needed and effectively simmers the food to fully cooked. You can get the Thermawrap from the Insulation section of B&Q or buy it more expensively from backpacking light.co.uk, tape it together into a pouch to cover your pot using gaffer tape:
http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/product212.asp?PageID=110

You are going to need at least 2-3 litres of water a day so you will need to melt snow anyway, unless your dropping down to lower areas where the water isnt frozen. The amount of water you need to rehydrate a dehydrated meal isnt that much, maybe 300ml on average per main meal.

Cous cous is a great option as is chorizo and salami etc
I bought a dehydrator for around £40, you can make your own jerky/biltong (way better than the shops) and dehydrate food like tinned tuna (goes really light), stewed meats, fruit, baked beans, cooked pasta, sauces etc.
The key is not to dehydrate fatty or oily foods, so precook meats by boiling or poaching as opposed to frying.

This is a good blog site for general lightweight advice and recipies for dehydrated food:
http://www.andyhowell.info/Dehydration/

Have Fun!
 Billhook 12 Nov 2010
In reply to Calum Nicoll:
> (In reply to Dave Perry)
> [...]
>
> Completely wrong.
Really? I've never heard of anyone starving over 5 days. Nor have I heard anyone suffering due to lack of calories over 5 days. A little hungry perhaps but nothing else.

 Joak 13 Nov 2010
In reply to zipworld: You've just made the whole calorific mumbo jumbo malarky much easier to understand. Cheers.
 Alex Slipchuk 13 Nov 2010
In reply to Joak: it's a shame diet companies aren't as open. Which i suppose makes it easier to sell less food but packed out with air and charge self conscience housewives more for the priviledge.
 Calum Nicoll 15 Nov 2010
In reply to Dave Perry: No one dies directly from starvation in scottish winter. However, 3000 calories a day over a sustained period will mean you'll be cold, slow, making poor decisions etc, all of which will make it unpleasant at best. It will also lead to large weight loss which will compound the cold effect.

I generally go for 8 or 9 thousand a day, and still lose weight, but I find winter camping to be a fairly pleasant experience.

Dehydrated foods packs are a bit of a joke, the amount you'd need to eat is massive, and pasta has similar calories for the weight. Try eating things like large blocks of hard cheese. Cured meat is also good, and chocolate biscuits. Chocolate on it's own is like eating ice when it's cold but biscuits are easy to eat. Dried fruit/nuts too.
 Alex Slipchuk 15 Nov 2010
In reply to Calum Nicoll: good points there. I usually head north on a friday night. Stopping off at tesco to hit the reduction shelf and for some reason nobody buys cheese and crannbury. Also chorizo. Lots of fat.

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