UKC

Am after some advice on technical ice tools. I'm (hopefully) off to Rjukan for the first time in a couple of months. Currently, I have Petzl Aztars, which I've used in the Alps and Scotland, but figure I want something a bit more technical for Rjukan. I've been looking at the Petzl Nomics, but would welcome any thoughts on those and on other possibilities.

Oh - I currently don't have much experience of pure steep ice, but am keen to buy something that will allow me to advance.

Cheers

In reply to DavidR: If you can afford them, you won't go wrong with Nomics

In reply to DavidR:
A "bit more technical"... I would suggest Petzl Quarks. New version appears to be more technical than the previous version but can be stripped down for more general usage. I think the Nomics are excellent for really steep ice but that is it... maybe a bit to specialised for your needs? Quarks will do the business on steep icefall but are more flexible. Anyway, that is my contribution... I am sure others will have a view too.

Cheers
Stephen

PS. What about crampons? For steeper ice you want G14s or similar - something with vertical front points.

In reply to DavidR:

You can try out Petzl gear for free at Climb Inn, Rjukan.

In reply to JSTaylor:

Agreed, Quarks are brilliant. Unless you're planning on doing loads of really steep stuff there probably isn't much point in buying an ergonomic tool like the nomics.

You could probably sell your aztars and use the money to part fund a pair of quarks and then use them for everything.

If however do feel you need an ergonomic tool have a look at some of the grivel ones, quantum race, or if money is tight the XMonster

In reply to DavidR:

X monsters, I compared mine side by side with a pal's nomics the other day. Layed the tools down one on top of the other, handles together and aligned. The geometry is exactly the same, picks at same angle, clearance identical. The balance is very similar too. X's are not as cheap as they used to be but are still a big saving on nomics, as a "holiday" tool they are ideal and more useful now they have an adze as well.

Thanks for all of the above folks...very useful. I've been thinking that I could justify going uber-technical, as I wasn't really looking to replace my Aztars (I think they're great, and probably sufficient for the sort of stuff I'm likely to do in the Alps and Scotland). That means that whatever I buy now could justifiably be just for ice (and not Alpine/mixed). However, I'm open to suggestions.

Anyone got any thoughts on the BD Fusions or Vipers too?

Ta.

In reply to 3leggeddog: the monsters arn't as stiff as the nomics though. they wobble when you whack it in sometimes. they are brilliant for DT though!

In reply to DavidR:

I'd recommend Quarks or BD Vipers, for sure. For what you said, this is the type of tool you probably need and adapt to the quickest. Coming from Atzar, Nomic is a massive step and for pure ice they are perhaps better tool than a nomic for an advanced climber.

In reply to DavidR: The first thing that springs to mind in is that the Aztars are pretty damn good axes.

With out knowing about the following it's pretty hard to give any concise advice:
- what leashes are you using; Petzl clipper leashes or fixed leashes?
- what condition are the picks in?
- what crampons do you have?
- what make and how many ice screws do you and your partner have?
- what are your finances like?
- what sort of WI grade are you aspiring to climb?

So in general:
- If you don't have decent B3 boots and technical crampons with vertical front points spend money on them first.
- The same applies to ice screws; buy them first.

As regards the Aztars:
- If the picks are in good nick and you are on fixed leashes consider buying the Petzl clipper leashes. That will give a very useful combination and you won't be at any disadvantage on route around WI4/4+. They'll still be good enough for the occasional harder route.
- If you fancy going leashless and again the picks are fine, consider modifying the Aztar with 'horns' and/or 'triggers'. You can get very respectable leashless performance out of older geometry axes. You would need to be on properly overhanging ice (WI6) before finding them seriously lacking.

New axes:
- X-Monsters. I picked up a pair cheap for about £110 for the pair a few years ago. Great kit that will handle all ice routes easily. They work best with a relaxed and controlled swings so do favour experienced climbers a lot more than other axes. Not the best but close and potentially great value if you can shop around.
- Anarchist, Nomic, Ergo, Fusion, Reactor. You are trading some performance in swing compared with Vipers/Quarks against the (theoretical?) capability to climb mixed test pieces that are way beyond most of us. They are useless for easier mountaineering but they do look super cool. In your case they'd all be great for Rjukan but you might not get much other use out of them.
- New Petzl Quarks. These are SUPERB. The PERFECT tool for Rjukan and big WI5 routes in general. Not much cop on M8 mixed routes but you can't have everything.
- BD Viper. A very close second to the Quark. Equally brilliant and any choice between them is probably down to personal preference.

In the end, you pays your money and you take you chance...

HTH

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:


You can't have used the new Quarks enough to state this with such convitction? They've barley been available a month so you either had a test pair - highly unlikly unless you're surname is steck - or you are hypothesizing/bullshitting, which isn't particularly helpful for the OP.

Cheers,

Tom

In reply to DavidR:
>

Good ice screws and learn how to place them, will do more for your progress on the steep, than any tool!!! I would buy these instead.

Stuart

In reply to Tom Ripley Mountain Guide: Hi Tom, very reasonable question.

They were widely on sale in Chamonix when I was there several months ago so I had plenty of time to compare them one to one with Vipers and the previous model. I only had a very very quick play with a borrowed pair on the mountain but I spoke to several people who'd already used them on routes.

I've used pretty much every ice axe available, although admittedly a fair few have only been for one route at the Ice-Factor or borrowed for a route dry tooling. I also have a pretty good idea of what I want from an ice axe for Scottish, Cascade and Alpine use. The previous Quark and the Viper were both very close apart from the obvious lack of triggers to help improve the swing.

As far as the new Petzl Quark is concerned I literally cannot fault it. The fully modular design is an inspired way of making it almost everything to everyone.

There will no doubt be the ongoing debate about the merits of Petzl vs BD picks and issues of the geometry when hooking, but for me they are minor issues. The original Quark is a brilliant ice climbing tool although more recently the Viper has had a slight edge. Now Petzl have significantly upped the ante again.

If it wasn't for the fact I'm up to my eyeballs in debt I'd have bought a pair 5 seconds after picking one up in Snell Sport!.

In reply to DavidR: The quarks don't look to be much of a step up from the Aztar. Some sharp screws and sorting your systems out will have more benefit by the sound of it. If however you have to buy axes, go for the best you can afford that will offer you a significant advantage over the ones you already have, ie Nomics. Contrary to what has been said above they are excellent all round axe suitable for everybody from beginners to Uli.