UKC

hi all

Before we start im not trolling , just a tight arse who is trying to save some cash as usual

I've got a set of old straight dmm alien ice axes but i was wondering if there is any safe way of bending them to give a bit more clearance.

obviously im not going to do it myself. we have quite a few different metal workers near where i live and i just wondered if it would be possible ?

the shaft is oval and i presume it would kink if it gets bent, is there any way around this?

In reply to pimp.daddyo: try adding heat and some support to the flattened side it might go without kinking

In reply to pimp.daddyo:

try e-bay
sell the straight aliens and buy bent aliens - you may break even cash wise

In reply to pimp.daddyo:

My metallurgy knowledge is limited to info gleaned from mountain bike forums regarding frame tubing etc., but I'm going to go ahead and say this probably isn't a good idea. Reheating metal and reforming I think could lead to weakening, and to make a proper job of it I think it needs to be re-heat treated. Even if this was possible by a metal worker I think it could end up costing you near enough the price of some kit off of eBay to get this work done.

In addition, even if it could be done without kinking, on the opposite side of the axe you are stretching the metal and reducing wall thickness, which I imagine also contributes to weakening. Again, I only have casual internet knowledge of this kind of stuff and I would speak to a metalworker if you really want to try it, but personally I wouldn't do it.

In reply to pimp.daddyo: Absolutely no way whatsoever. Even if you had the savvy to correctly heat-treat the metal (is it alu? dunno) the cross-section would not allow bending. Pipe benders do exist, sure, but bent pipes don't have to be T rated, and they're for circle-section (pipe) anyway. If you're short on cash I'd recommend asking around for swaps, modding things your life depends on is already a grey area, let alone something this extreme.

In reply to pimp.daddyo:

how about a weekend in sydney with julian clarey, stephen fry and a bottle of amyl?

someone had to say it.

on a serious note: i dunno about this idea. now i dont know the tools at all, but figure theyre either alloy tubes or forged like most other tools (correct me if im wrong here), and neither takes too kindly to being re-engineered.
if it was a deck chair or patio unbrella you could afford to find out - but ice tools....

In reply to pimp.daddyo:

Flog them on a certain auction site. At this time of year people will pay ridiculous amounts for winter kit. Straight Aliens are good axes. Are you sure your swing technique isn't making you smack your knuckles?

In reply to pimp.daddyo:
Short answer YES. Long answer NO, you won't achieve the same standard of finish if you bend them. There is a fair bit of complicated heat treatment and other jiggery pokery that goes on in forming those tube sections.

In reply to pimp.daddyo: messed about doing this in the early 90's with a set of RAF issued axes. From experience, it's expensive, takes ages to research and ice tools are made on machines and use special bolts etc..... something that i found out when the pick of my axe stayed in the crack.....

In reply to pimp.daddyo: i'm thinking that if i was on terrain where i needed bent shafts, i'd want to be 100% confident that i wasn't using some axes weakened by someone who wasn't 100% sure they knew what they were doing....

In reply to pimp.daddyo:

We all did this in the 70s: mostly with success. In fact the "Snowdon Mouldings Curver", a very popular axe still often seen on the hill, was made by bending Stubai Nanga Parbats. The only complete failure I recall was a head that failed under load, but that had been ground down as well!

The method is: Make a heat sink to protect the shaft:rags soaked in water, heat the head to bright red with a gas torch, insert the pick into a hole, bend it a bit, pull it out a bit, bend it some more, continue until you have a nice curve. It will probably be a bit twisted: hammer it flat on a suitable surface to flatten it, Quench it in cold water to re-harden the steel. TEST IT BY HANGING YOUR FULL WEIGHT ON ITS POINT. Good luck!

In reply to grubus:

Complete misunderstanding of the OP there (he wants to bend the shafts)... but I wouldn't try that either!

Even if you could bend them without weakening them (unlikely) the pick angle is going to be all wrong - like others have said, a swap is a much better idea!

In reply to pimp.daddyo: thanks for the info guys, think i might chuck em on ebay and hope for the best.

In reply to pimp.daddyo: It's perfectly possible, if it's made from alloy tube rather than a casting, with care.

Remove pick first by undrilling/derivetting it, then make up a strong pair of side plates (from marine ply or, best, solid hardwood. (beech would work well). Anneal the alloy of the shaft by flame. Fill shaft with water laced with fairy liquid and freeze it solid/overnight. This mixture stops the tube walls from collapsing as you bend them and you don't need special formers. Clamp the assembly tightly to a good bench (using the sideplates you made earlier) then bend bit by bit until you get the shape you want. You may need a longer piece of tube (scaffold tube would be good) to act as a lever to get the bending done easier. You may need to repeat the process and you may need a strong assistant After it's done, replace the pick and rubber grip (you will have burnt that away when annealing the metal). Next leave it alone for about four/five weeks. The annealing has softened the alloy and you don't need that properly. All is not lost though, as the vast majority of alloys regain nearly all their strength through the process of age hardening after about a month. Enjoy.

In reply to pimp.daddyo:

Too much can go wrong. The chances of a bad outcome are high in the hands of an inexperienced person without a good knowledge of materials.

Perhaps a better outcome could be achieved with the simpler approach of extending the spike to protect the hand.