UKC

I seem to suffer with stupidly cold feet. My Sportiva Nepals (which are great boots otherwise) didn't protect me from icy cold and numb feet on most of my winter trips last year, and resulted in my big toe remaining numb for 6 months following a particularly chilly route on the Ben.

Of course, I'm anxious not to repeat that, as I could end up in more trouble on another occasion, and so am keen to find something warmer. I've been doing some investigations, and the next best option I can find is the Sportiva Spantik. This gets great reviews for comfort and warmth (and ability), although it is very expensive. However, my question is...is this massive overkill for Scottish winter routes? I certainly need something more than the Nepals. Any thoughts on the Spantik or on other options would be much appreciated.

Cheers

In reply to DavidR: I'd guess some sort of plastic double boot would be a good option - Scarpa vegas or omegas maybe?

In reply to DavidR:

I have no idea if they're any good, but what about some of those electronic heated footbeds?

In reply to Sean_J:

I've used Vegas before. They're warm but very clumsy. I've heard the Omegas leak terribly if they get wet, so not too keen on going that route. Thanks for the suggestion though.

As for heated foot-beds, I kind of see those as temporary measures...not sure how effective they might be throughout a whole day.

In reply to DavidR: I have the same problem, heated footbeds work well, i use them in my ski boots and on the lowest setting mine last all day. would say spantiks or scarpa 6000s are the way to go though. I under estimated how cold it was here last monday and got a bit of frost bite in my single boots

In reply to DavidR:

ive had a pair of omegas for a couple of years and am quite a big fan of them, cant remember ever getting wet feet in them.

however in answer to your question id say that spantik's weren't overkill for scottish winter, especially considering your experiences with nepal extremes.

In reply to DavidR: Are your boots big enough? I find my toes get colder if cramped. Also big boots = lots of room for warm socks!

In reply to DavidR:

It's a bit hard to be emphatic about what boot might be best since there isn't (as far as I know) any sort of objective test, but I'd reckon you'd likely find the Sportiva Batura/Scarpa Phantom Guide all-in-one type boot a bit warmer, without getting quite as bulky or expensive as the Spantiks.

I had a similar problem and got some Raichle boots of this type a few years ago, and haven't had nearly such cold toes since. Not sure whether it's just due to more insulation, or a better fit, or what, but they are definitely an improvement over my old boots.

It might be worth having a look here for lots more detail about some likely candidates:

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/

(you'll need to look back to the 2010 posts)

It might also be worth mentioning other factors - having no belay jacket, having cold hands, getting sweaty and body-belying sitting in the snow have, I suspect, all contributed to my cold feet in the past.

In reply to DavidR:

I think Nufkin really makes the point that should concern you more than new boots.

I've used the Nepal Evo is some pretty cold weather (-30C) and been fine. That said knowing I have a real problem keeping my feet warm. But it takes good managment while you are out to do that. Stay hydrated, use a belay jacket when required and change to dry gear before you start climbing if you have done a long walk in beforehand and are wet. Careful also not to lace the toe of your boots too tight.

The Spantik and Baruntse are both incredible boots and very warm. Over kill for most anywhere out side the Alps in winter or Alaska in the spring.
I used my Spantiks in -30 temps last week in the Rockies and cold feet was never a worry...nice that. Although I think the Baruntse is a better technical climbing boot. Likely you'll have warm feet in either if you take the proper precautions.

The gaitered boots like the Scarpa Phantom series or Batura aren't all that much warmer and are much harder to dry than the Nepal from my own experience. So I would caution you on taking that step.

None of them would have kept my feet warm last week.

In reply to DavidR:

Are you sure they are the right size? I've had the exact same problem with Sportiva Nepal Extremes -- index toes on both feet that have remained numb for months. At first I thought it might be because of cold but then noticed the same after warm autumn trips.
The problem was my toes were banging against the tips when front pointing, due to the boots being slightly too short and perhaps too wide. Playing around with footbeds, the tongue and tighter lacing didn't solve the problem so I sold them. Annoying as they felt great in the shop.

In reply to DavidR:

I have the same problem with cold feet, I suffer a lot, specially when I had my Nepals. Had frostnip my toes and did damage them. I bought the Spantiks and problem solved. They are super warm and not much heavier, less flexible but not a big deal. My problem is that nowadays I only just do continental mixed lines and I can't really wear my Spantiks, so I have a pair of Evo's and I just suffer through the routes. No two ways about it. I'm selling my Spantiks by the way if you are interested, I don't use them unless I'm doing ice routes.

In reply to DavidR:

Have you seen these? You will want to scroll down a bit

http://mountainz.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1226&start=15

In reply to DavidR:
1) Try some good insoles - superfeet fitted by a trained shop assistant make a big difference to how your foot sits in the boot + better blood flow = warmer.
2) Try fitting Yeti Gaiters to the boots, or get some plastics that will take them. Yetis might be out of vogue, but make a massive difference to foot dryness and warmth

In reply to DavidR: I used old style Nepal's and frequently got cold toes in Scotland. I now have Scarpa Phantom Guides which I find to be excellent, and have yet to get cold feet in them. They really are a lot warmer and the whole boot and over gaiter thing seems to really help. As a step up from those the Scarpa Phantom 6000's are well worth a look (I also have a pair). By spec they should be as warm as Spantiks, but are not as clumsy/ big and don't feel like moon boots so would still be good to climb in.

In reply to DavidR: Also well worth having a look at the new Polartec socks by Lorpen. I have a pair and have been really impressed by them. They are pricey, but a lot cheaper than upgrading boots.

Some info here: http://openair.co.uk/product111482/Polartec-and-Primaloft-Overcalf-Sock.asp...