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Parking problems and even criminal damage to parked cars have been reported by climbers attempting to park at Gerlan, Bethesda while trying to gain access to the Black Ladders and neighbouring cliffs.
With the phenomenal winter conditons of the last few weeks the area has seen an unprecedented amount of activity, and with exceptionally restricted space for parking (especially in winter conditions) there has been a considerable local backlash against inconsiderate parking at Gerlan. Formal (enforcable) parking restrictions are about to be imposed by the local authority.
Further information about the situation and some alternative suggestions are on the BMC news site:-
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=4088
Please think carefully before parking at Gerlan, and do seriously consider the options of a slightly longer walk in, or even use the bus, which do run from Bethesda to Gerlan from 7am until 11.25 pm.
Elfyn Jones
BMC Access & Conservation Officer (Wales)
With the phenomenal winter conditons of the last few weeks the area has seen an unprecedented amount of activity, and with exceptionally restricted space for parking (especially in winter conditions) there has been a considerable local backlash against inconsiderate parking at Gerlan. Formal (enforcable) parking restrictions are about to be imposed by the local authority.
Further information about the situation and some alternative suggestions are on the BMC news site:-
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=4088
Please think carefully before parking at Gerlan, and do seriously consider the options of a slightly longer walk in, or even use the bus, which do run from Bethesda to Gerlan from 7am until 11.25 pm.
Elfyn Jones
BMC Access & Conservation Officer (Wales)
In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales:
Apologies can't spell today - title should have been Black Ladders!
Apologies can't spell today - title should have been Black Ladders!
In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales:
Sadly, as Elfyn says, the problem with parking for the Black Ladders is nothing new. I came back to a car with two slashed tyres in February 1984 - and I'd considerately parked it on the side of the road in a line of cars in Gerlan village itself. I suspect it was targetted as it was obvious that it was a climber's car. Another climber's car, equally considerately parked close by, also had a slashed tyre. No other nearby cars had been vandalised as these presumably belonged to residents or weren't obviously ones belonging to climbers.
As things have been bad for a long time and, presumably, can only get worse, then the bus service suggestion seems like the only sensible way forward IMO.
Diolch am y gwybodaeth ynghyd a'r cyngor Elfyn. :¬)
Dave
Sadly, as Elfyn says, the problem with parking for the Black Ladders is nothing new. I came back to a car with two slashed tyres in February 1984 - and I'd considerately parked it on the side of the road in a line of cars in Gerlan village itself. I suspect it was targetted as it was obvious that it was a climber's car. Another climber's car, equally considerately parked close by, also had a slashed tyre. No other nearby cars had been vandalised as these presumably belonged to residents or weren't obviously ones belonging to climbers.
As things have been bad for a long time and, presumably, can only get worse, then the bus service suggestion seems like the only sensible way forward IMO.
Diolch am y gwybodaeth ynghyd a'r cyngor Elfyn. :¬)
Dave
In reply to Dave Williams: earlsdonhammer:
PMSL its Bethesda not Moss Side
My comment above from a recent thread... now with talk of tyres being slashed ,I know my gut feeling was right!
> (In reply to leeangell) some potentially dodgy estates may make you think twice about parking up for a few days. May depend on your car's value...... or I might be maligning the good folk of Bethesda.
PMSL its Bethesda not Moss Side
My comment above from a recent thread... now with talk of tyres being slashed ,I know my gut feeling was right!
In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales & UKC:
Elfyn/UKC is it possible for UKC to put this in the Winter Climbing Forum too? Hopefully the bus option will see some action when the condition reappear.
Cheers
Jon
Elfyn/UKC is it possible for UKC to put this in the Winter Climbing Forum too? Hopefully the bus option will see some action when the condition reappear.
Cheers
Jon
In reply to earlsdonhammer:
"PMSL its Bethesda not Moss Side"
Possibly not but there are many places I'd rather walk through or park in. It's bit of a hole TBH and some of the residents don't exactly make you want to hang about in the place. Unfortunately, I can't see much changing in the foreseeable future.
"PMSL its Bethesda not Moss Side"
Possibly not but there are many places I'd rather walk through or park in. It's bit of a hole TBH and some of the residents don't exactly make you want to hang about in the place. Unfortunately, I can't see much changing in the foreseeable future.
In reply to gethin_allen: I, and many others will take exception to what you say there Gethin. I have lived in both Gerlan and Cilfodan and the last thing I would call it was 'a bit of a hole'. I found I wanted 'to hang about the place' to the extent that I tried to buy a house up there, yep, a good old slate workers terrace with views up Nant Francon and into Cwm Idwal and down over the Menai Straights towards Anglesey and down to the Llyen. Oh and I got on with my neighbours well and cheesy as it may sound, I felt part of a community. I guess folk treat you in the way you invite them too.
Parking was always a big problem for residents as the terraces and streets weren't built with parking in mind, especially in this era of multi car families.This has always caused a little tension when everyones competing for limited spaces after a day at work, add to this a load of walkers and climbers parking who don't even live there and tempers are going to flare. it's more of a reflection on the seriousness of the problem more than on the local area in my opinion.
Nothing will 'change in the foreseeable' future unless more parking space is created away from the housing or people start accepting there's a problem and start using the bus service, me included!
Rant over
Jon Ratcliffe
Parking was always a big problem for residents as the terraces and streets weren't built with parking in mind, especially in this era of multi car families.This has always caused a little tension when everyones competing for limited spaces after a day at work, add to this a load of walkers and climbers parking who don't even live there and tempers are going to flare. it's more of a reflection on the seriousness of the problem more than on the local area in my opinion.
Nothing will 'change in the foreseeable' future unless more parking space is created away from the housing or people start accepting there's a problem and start using the bus service, me included!
Rant over
Jon Ratcliffe
In reply to chummer:
What a lovely and well balanced statement Jon Ratcliffe, based on experience.
Title typo changed.
What a lovely and well balanced statement Jon Ratcliffe, based on experience.
Title typo changed.
In reply to chummer:
I fail to see how a considerately parked car invites vandalism, tbh. Since there's such a spirit of community in Gerlan, perhaps you could find out who's been committing these crimes and report them to the police - you're not exactly convincing me that the place isn't a 'hole' if stuff like this is allowed to go unchallenged.
There are plenty of other crags where parking is an issue for residents too. They seem to get along quite happily and take their complaints up with the relevant bodies when they need to, rather than committing cowardly acts of vandalism.
> I guess folk treat you in the way you invite them too.
I fail to see how a considerately parked car invites vandalism, tbh. Since there's such a spirit of community in Gerlan, perhaps you could find out who's been committing these crimes and report them to the police - you're not exactly convincing me that the place isn't a 'hole' if stuff like this is allowed to go unchallenged.
There are plenty of other crags where parking is an issue for residents too. They seem to get along quite happily and take their complaints up with the relevant bodies when they need to, rather than committing cowardly acts of vandalism.
In reply to chummer:
Wel put Jon, I was about to reply earlier but deleted my own post as I thought what I had written would be pulled anyway.
mills.
Wel put Jon, I was about to reply earlier but deleted my own post as I thought what I had written would be pulled anyway.
mills.
In reply to Pagan:
Human nature dude. People get pissed off, and some fly off the handle. Not pretty, but parking and localism (even amongst the climbing community) is a big issue in the UK, as you know.
If you accept that and talk to communities a resolution can usually be found.
Human nature dude. People get pissed off, and some fly off the handle. Not pretty, but parking and localism (even amongst the climbing community) is a big issue in the UK, as you know.
If you accept that and talk to communities a resolution can usually be found.
In reply to chummer:
As you as obviously a fine upstanding gentleman I hope that it's you who I meet next time I'm in the town as you may be able to defend the reputation of the place by being friendly to a tourist and fellow climber who makes a lot of effort to travel to the area and spends hard earned cash in the area.
Otherwise the only things I'll amend in my statement above are to say "In my opinion it's a bit of a hole" and "the people who I've come in to contact with have made me feel less than welcome". I've even tried to use my southern taffy welsh when talking to people who were obvious welsh speakers to try and be friendly.
As you as obviously a fine upstanding gentleman I hope that it's you who I meet next time I'm in the town as you may be able to defend the reputation of the place by being friendly to a tourist and fellow climber who makes a lot of effort to travel to the area and spends hard earned cash in the area.
Otherwise the only things I'll amend in my statement above are to say "In my opinion it's a bit of a hole" and "the people who I've come in to contact with have made me feel less than welcome". I've even tried to use my southern taffy welsh when talking to people who were obvious welsh speakers to try and be friendly.
In reply to gethin_allen: Had a similar problem in Abergynolwyn (spelling)during a paddling trip this year. A local farmer rocked up and started ranting about access to the local river. After he ranted and ranted and threatened we got on the river which by the way does have access and vowed never to spend any money in the local cafe or town ever again. In the end who loses out??
However I have never had any issues with parking in Gerlan and would happily use the bus to defuse any tension.
However I have never had any issues with parking in Gerlan and would happily use the bus to defuse any tension.
In reply to chummer:
I agree and its out of order to malign a hol vilage's residents for the actions of o e or two nobbers.
How long does it take to walk up from Bethesda anyway?
I agree and its out of order to malign a hol vilage's residents for the actions of o e or two nobbers.
How long does it take to walk up from Bethesda anyway?
In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales:
Let's be clear about this. My tyres were slashed in 1984 - not last week FFS. It came at the end of a 6 week long cold spell which had created a lot of difficulties for the residents of Gerlan due to the number of climbers parking there.
There's no way that I wish the present residents of Gerlan to be found 'guilty by association' to something that happened 27 years ago. I used this historical incident to simply illustrate that the problems caused by climbers parking in Gerlan are nothing new. This is clearly stated in my first post.
Previous posters who have used this incident to malign the present residents of Gerlan are irresponsible and should be ashamed of themselves.
Dave
Let's be clear about this. My tyres were slashed in 1984 - not last week FFS. It came at the end of a 6 week long cold spell which had created a lot of difficulties for the residents of Gerlan due to the number of climbers parking there.
There's no way that I wish the present residents of Gerlan to be found 'guilty by association' to something that happened 27 years ago. I used this historical incident to simply illustrate that the problems caused by climbers parking in Gerlan are nothing new. This is clearly stated in my first post.
Previous posters who have used this incident to malign the present residents of Gerlan are irresponsible and should be ashamed of themselves.
Dave
Agree with Chummer, never had any hassle parking up there for access to the boulders and it's most likely down to a few idiots who want to put a message out to climbers. The vandalism is very unwelcome however I can sympathise with the frustrations of locals. I imagine I'd grow tired of 'outsiders' occupying the limited parking spaces, especially as it's a result of indulging a hobby.
I'd also agree that it's well worth making the effort to park elsewhere next time there's a cold snap and particularly on weekends. It is very easy to park curbside in the entrance to the estate at the end of Braichmelyn and take the footpath opposite up to Gerlan, it's an extra 5 minutes.
Elfyn, just read the BMC piece. It's dissapointing regarding the councils opinion about parking, an obvious (although I have no clue as to ownership of the land) idea would be to suggest the space located behind the goal posts of the football pitch . Lay some slate waste down and remove part of the wall and we could have a small carpark that would benefit not just climbers but walkers also. If there is going to be a clampdown on parking in the 'passing places', which had historically been used for a long time , then this certainly seems like the best solution.
Nic
I'd also agree that it's well worth making the effort to park elsewhere next time there's a cold snap and particularly on weekends. It is very easy to park curbside in the entrance to the estate at the end of Braichmelyn and take the footpath opposite up to Gerlan, it's an extra 5 minutes.
Elfyn, just read the BMC piece. It's dissapointing regarding the councils opinion about parking, an obvious (although I have no clue as to ownership of the land) idea would be to suggest the space located behind the goal posts of the football pitch . Lay some slate waste down and remove part of the wall and we could have a small carpark that would benefit not just climbers but walkers also. If there is going to be a clampdown on parking in the 'passing places', which had historically been used for a long time , then this certainly seems like the best solution.
Nic
In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales: If it wasn't for us climbers/tourists, a lot of the little welsh Vilages would not have a great income and rely on us.
In reply to andyd1970:
...so they should clearly allow us to trample all over their lives!
Let's not delude ourselves, the economic survival of Gerlan does not "rely" on us climbers....what arrogance!
...so they should clearly allow us to trample all over their lives!
Let's not delude ourselves, the economic survival of Gerlan does not "rely" on us climbers....what arrogance!
In reply to andyd1970:
Would you care to hazard a guess as to how much money the average inconsiderately parked climber spends in Gerlan village?
> (In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales) If it wasn't for us climbers/tourists, a lot of the little welsh Vilages would not have a great income and rely on us.
Would you care to hazard a guess as to how much money the average inconsiderately parked climber spends in Gerlan village?
In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales:
I often wondered about parking down in Bethesa and getting a taxi up all the way to the end of the road. Don`t know how reliable the local taxis are but its worth looking into i reckon.
Anyone done this?
I often wondered about parking down in Bethesa and getting a taxi up all the way to the end of the road. Don`t know how reliable the local taxis are but its worth looking into i reckon.
Anyone done this?
In reply to TheSooper: I would like to see your opinion on the matter after returning to your car and have a sratch down thee side and 2 slashed tyres. And a gang of about 15 teenagers laughing. All I was merely stating was that a lot of these local people do work in the tourist industry and are relient on other people like myself.
In reply to johnnorman:
Al Cars - 01248 602111
Classis Cabs - 01248 370717
Pesda Cars - 01248 605030
Penrhyn Cabs - 01248 600072
Lee`s Taxis - 07842009538
J.R Williams - 01248 600763
Taxi Twix - 01248 730730
All thease taxis are based in Bethesda, I`m sure there are a couple more but, no excuse for not parking in the village car park really !
Al Cars - 01248 602111
Classis Cabs - 01248 370717
Pesda Cars - 01248 605030
Penrhyn Cabs - 01248 600072
Lee`s Taxis - 07842009538
J.R Williams - 01248 600763
Taxi Twix - 01248 730730
All thease taxis are based in Bethesda, I`m sure there are a couple more but, no excuse for not parking in the village car park really !
In reply to johnnorman:
I like your thinking. Even better park somewhere around Ogwen, take a taxi round to the end of the road at Gerlan and enjoy the easiest options for both the walk in and the walk out. Everyone's a winner and you put a bit into the local economy.
> (In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales)
>
>
> I often wondered about parking down in Bethesa and getting a taxi up all the way to the end of the road. Don`t know how reliable the local taxis are but its worth looking into i reckon.
> Anyone done this?
>
>
> I often wondered about parking down in Bethesa and getting a taxi up all the way to the end of the road. Don`t know how reliable the local taxis are but its worth looking into i reckon.
> Anyone done this?
I like your thinking. Even better park somewhere around Ogwen, take a taxi round to the end of the road at Gerlan and enjoy the easiest options for both the walk in and the walk out. Everyone's a winner and you put a bit into the local economy.
In reply to mr mills:
Brilliant.
Will climbers do this Mr. Mills?
Will local climbers set an example?
Brilliant.
Will climbers do this Mr. Mills?
Will local climbers set an example?
In reply to andyd1970: I really don't think there are many local residents in Gerlan who work in the tourist industry Andyd, do you often make up demographic statements?
Most (he say's, getting in on the generalisations..)I would say work in the small factory on the main road, in the Quarry or in Bangor, rightly or wrongly, there's not so much of a reliance on tourist trade in Bethesda as say in Llanberis.
Please don't get me wrong, I do not condone the vandalism one bit and coming back after a good day on the hill to your vandalised car is a hideous experience, but I understand the situation and when it affects a village community, by the laws of probability there's often going to be someone in that community who crosses the line and takes matters into their own hands unfortunately. Shirley this simply highlights the size of the problem up there, it's been going on for years and it has been raised at at least two BMC Cymru meetings I have been to.
So now we are all aware of the problem we can start using the Bus service or walking and thus not contribute further to the problem until an enterprising local farmer opens up a field or the BMC sort out some other solution.
Most (he say's, getting in on the generalisations..)I would say work in the small factory on the main road, in the Quarry or in Bangor, rightly or wrongly, there's not so much of a reliance on tourist trade in Bethesda as say in Llanberis.
Please don't get me wrong, I do not condone the vandalism one bit and coming back after a good day on the hill to your vandalised car is a hideous experience, but I understand the situation and when it affects a village community, by the laws of probability there's often going to be someone in that community who crosses the line and takes matters into their own hands unfortunately. Shirley this simply highlights the size of the problem up there, it's been going on for years and it has been raised at at least two BMC Cymru meetings I have been to.
So now we are all aware of the problem we can start using the Bus service or walking and thus not contribute further to the problem until an enterprising local farmer opens up a field or the BMC sort out some other solution.
In reply to timjones: You are right Tim and i will use in future but when I got my car vandalised, I had parked it on the advise of a Guide book and i was parked in car parking spaces with so signs of do not park here. I am quite happy to support any local economy which is fine but it doesn't give the locals the right to wreck my car.
In reply to chummer: Totally Agree and perhaps I was a bit over the top before and I have never parked there since and I do apologise, but it took me 4 hours to sort my car and get home and I only live an hour away. It does leave a bitter taste in your mouth afterwards though.
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
Will climbers do this ? No idea Mick
Will local climbers set an example ? Dont know
I can only speak for myself Mick and I definately wont be parking there, not in Winter or Summer !
I`m really dissapointed that somebody`s car got vandalised and am sympathetic towards them but, to bang on and blame an entire community is way out of order, would not have a clue as who would carry out such a spitefull act !
One thing is sure, if we get another cold spell I can garantee there will be climbers parked up there if they have not read this thread !
I`m sure Elfyn will bring this matter up in the next BMC meting at the Vaynol in Nant Peris.
Will climbers do this ? No idea Mick
Will local climbers set an example ? Dont know
I can only speak for myself Mick and I definately wont be parking there, not in Winter or Summer !
I`m really dissapointed that somebody`s car got vandalised and am sympathetic towards them but, to bang on and blame an entire community is way out of order, would not have a clue as who would carry out such a spitefull act !
One thing is sure, if we get another cold spell I can garantee there will be climbers parked up there if they have not read this thread !
I`m sure Elfyn will bring this matter up in the next BMC meting at the Vaynol in Nant Peris.
In reply to chummer:
why does the farmer/ land owner not cash in on this demand,
and open a field for parking and charge folks for parking ?
well said Chummer and Mr Mills
why does the farmer/ land owner not cash in on this demand,
and open a field for parking and charge folks for parking ?
well said Chummer and Mr Mills
In reply to andyd1970: no worries Andy, we're all playing for the same team eh?!
In reply to Ian McNeill:
It would probably be a real financial winner in winter. Free parking with a nice fee to tow people off when they got stuck
> (In reply to chummer)
>
>
> why does the farmer/ land owner not cash in on this demand,
> and open a field for parking and charge folks for parking ?
>
> well said Chummer and Mr Mills
>
>
> why does the farmer/ land owner not cash in on this demand,
> and open a field for parking and charge folks for parking ?
>
> well said Chummer and Mr Mills
It would probably be a real financial winner in winter. Free parking with a nice fee to tow people off when they got stuck
In reply to Ian McNeill:
> (In reply to chummer)
>
>
> why does the farmer/ land owner not cash in on this demand,
> and open a field for parking and charge folks for parking ?
>
Probably because he would have to apply for Planning Permission for Change of Use. This would cost a reasonable amount of money and no doubt there would be all sorts of extra expense from complying with all the rules and regulations associated with car parks.>
>
> why does the farmer/ land owner not cash in on this demand,
> and open a field for parking and charge folks for parking ?
>
In reply to Elfyn - A+C Officer For Wales:
A good option I have used for winter climbing on the Black Ladders is to start in Ogwen just above Milestone Buttress, walk over the ridge, descend near the head of the Cwm and re-ascend slightly to the crag. It takes a little longer to get there but is much quicker down from the top of the route so overall I think it is actually quicker as long as you are OK with the big uphill start.
A good option I have used for winter climbing on the Black Ladders is to start in Ogwen just above Milestone Buttress, walk over the ridge, descend near the head of the Cwm and re-ascend slightly to the crag. It takes a little longer to get there but is much quicker down from the top of the route so overall I think it is actually quicker as long as you are OK with the big uphill start.
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