UKC

What is the best axe suited to both snow routes and ice routes to IV/V.

After a bit of searching around thought of either the new Quarks or BD Vipers.

What do you think?

Here are the Petzl Nomics doing it all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOghf5uN794&feature=related
youtube.com/watch?v=Axb78MT1OyQ&

In reply to DaveNW: Matrix Lights with Sliders?

I know it's cliche, but Nomics aren't great for plunging, and if you want an all-rounder then you want something whose shaft can be driven all the way into the snow. Sometimes it's steep enough to be worrying and not hard enough for picks alone to be of use. There are people doing big, hard routes in the high mountains with Nomics, but it doesn't make them a good tool for No.2 Gully.

In reply to DaveNW: the new quarks I reckon have it sorted... pretty much nomics, but with the plunging ability you four legged jessies think you need.

In reply to DaveNW:

like the attitude to plunging.

just done 12 days mixed alpine with approaches thru lots of snow using nomics.
did what i always have, plunging with the tools head first. keeps your hands warmer (holding the rubber grips), ready to hook stuff and easy on low angle.

if, tho, i was wanting something to just for trudging up gullys, ridges and the odd real move then id go with bd cobras - the carbon shafts being warmer to the touch. quarks and vipers would also do.

In reply to ice.solo:

Wow, must be nice to have the money to buy something like cobras for snow plods just because the carbon keeps your hands warmer!...

I use the old style quarks and can't really fault them, them work for everything i need them to do. Admittedly i dont climb all that hard but i've never felt like my axes are holding me back!

In the end i chose the quarks because i liked the feel and they were on offer so i got them cheep!

In reply to Steeve:

Must echo this, why do you want half your tool to dissapear into the snow? You are after all using it as a glorified walking pole.

In reply to Hannes:

Climbing steep snow, say near a cornice. For a stomp belay. both situations when it's sketchy, and experienced at least twice each in the 6 days winter climbing I've done this winter.

None of the axes in this discussion are suitable for a glorified walking stick. Indeed, longer walking axes aren't suitable for use as a walking stick.


None of these axes would do for a

In reply to DaveNW: on hard snow, dagger. if its not steep enough to dagger you only really need the small point on climbing axes to keep you stable.
for soft snow, as mentioned, use the tool upsidedown.
and if its that soft you can probably plunge an ergo handle anyway.

In reply to DaveNW: as for the stomp belay, you can still og for it, just stomp harder...

In reply to Steeve:
The fact still remains that, all else being equal, axes with a straight shaft (or at least straight at the bottom, with a real spike) are better for snow climbing. Any ice axe is a compromise--the trick is finding the right one for you.

In reply to Only a hill:
In fact I think it's wrong to refer to a Nomic as an ice axe, anyway ... it's really a different kind of tool altogether.

In reply to Only a hill:

out of curiosity, why do you say this? Its meant for ice climbing, surely it is an ice axe then?

In reply to Hannes:

theres a school of thought that deems straight shafts with an adze for classic style and glaciers with possible step cutting, often using only one, as an 'ice axe', and curved shafts with no or removable adzes designed for steep stuff where 2 are necessary as 'ice tools'.

its like flippers or fins and seems to matter only to the absolute novice or the absolute professional.