UKC

Just a quick thought, is it best to have both the gates opposed or facing the same way? I've heard arguments for both?

Cheers,
BR

In reply to blackreaver: Whichever you prefer. I prefer opposed for sport, but the same side for trad.

In reply to blackreaver: Well most of my quickdraws are of the straight variety, but I've nothing against the odd bender.

In reply to blackreaver: Alpine guide I did a course with said he always has his the same way - that way you always know which way to put the rope in once you've clipped the bolt. I guess that could apply to opposites too, the key would be to be completely consistent.

In reply to blackreaver:
for sport it might make a difference... youd set it up ready for however you preferred to clip (rope on the thumb, rope on the finger/thumb on the gate, finger on the gate)
but for trad, considering the faff you'll have gone to placing the gear in the first place, having to clip in a different orientation shouldnt phase you atall....

personally i go for opposing, it just seems right...

In reply to blackreaver:

Being right-handed, clipping with the right hand feels more coordinated and as a result clipping the rope in from right to left. Having the rope end of the quick draw oriented so the rope enters from the right hand side seems easier.

As a result, clipping the QD to the bolt/gear also feels more comfortable clipping from right to left.

Therefore, opposing might be the way to go.

In reply to blackreaver: I favour opposing, as clipping the quickdraw to the gear/bolt the most convenient way leaves the bottom krab orientated the best way to clip the rope. I've heard an argument for doing it the other way but I can't remember what it is.

More importantly, practice clipping left and right-handed, forehand and back-handed - made a massive difference to my climbing!

In reply to blackreaver: The bolt and rope biners are anodised in different colours, they're opposed at the moment, they'll be used for sport and I'm left handed if that will make any difference!

Cheers
BR

In reply to blackreaver: Generally speaking the gates of the crabs should face away from the rock so when loaded they can't become pulled into the rock where any features could prise the gate open slightly, greatly reducing its strength. This will usually require both crabs to face the way.
The orientation of bolt hangers may however make it necessary for the bolt to be clipped in a direction which would place the rope end crab with its gate against the rock if they are both facing the same way. So on sport routes it would be more likely you'd want them facing opposite ways.

In reply to pec:

Not sure I see what you mean here. The vast majority of bolt hangers have a 90 degree twist to orient the clipped krab sideways on to the rock, so you can happily clip either way depending on which way you want the bottom krab to face. The only hangers that don't do this are old and thankfully uncommon - once clipped the krab will need to face away from the rock so the bottom krab ideally should be facing the same way as the top one.

The other occasion where krabs should face the same way is when clipping a peg or wire, particularly one in a corner, so that both gates face out from the rock.

Having said that, I think most climbers have a very marginal preference for clipping ordinary bolt hangers in a way that makes more sense if the quickdraw krabs are opposing.

My advice would be that consistency is the most important factor, so you don't need to look to know which way to clip. Beyond that, if you also use your quickdraws for trad then keep them all the same way, if you only use them for sport then maybe keep them opposing.

In reply to David Martin:

That is definatly what works for me being a right hooker too.

in reply to John Arran: I think I get what Pec means but I found it more applicable on trad than bolts, as you say the bolt hangers are usually set to have the crab side on to the rock. Sometimes on gear if I clip my QD to the piece in question the gear end of the QD can lie so the gate could be pressing against a bit of rock in the event of a fall, simple matter to just spin the crab on the QD to turn the gate so it faces the other way and if forced against the rock, no chance of the gate becoming open. I think thats what pec means?.

There is always the question on UKC asking which end goes to where on quickdraws. I always use the 'open' sling end to gear and the 'sewn-up' captured end to the rope. 3 reasons I do this:
1) I climb trad, winter and sport. The rope crab <sewn up end> is always used on rope and the open end crab is always to the gear. On bolts, this gear crab can become nicked by the bolt hanger. Although not likely to damage the crab except in extreme circumstances, these nicks and burrs could damage a rope if clipped the other way around, that is, clipped to the rope and not the gear.
2) If there is a chance of the gate of the gear end crab being forced open by its contact to the rock during a fall, as the gear crab isn't sewn in, its a sipmle matter to clip the gear, assess its orientaion if you fell then if you decide the gate could cause you problems, turn the crab to face the other way. You can do this while the crab is still on the QD and while its still clipped to the gear as the crab isn't sewn in.
3) As the gear crab isn't sewn in, there is a bit more 'play' than the caputured QD crab - less likely for movement to lift out the gear once above it.
When racking QD's I have the open sling, gear end on the harness loops. When I've placed a bit of gear, I reach for the QD and know that the end I unclip from the harness is the correct 'gear' end and it goes straight on the gear without thinking. As with most things in climbing, I've found that these simply works for me.
blanch