UKC

Looking to do my first 8000m peak next year. Torn between Cho Oyu and Manaslu. Advice and recommendations please!!

In reply to Superchop75: cho oyu is recognised as probably the easiest one so i would suggest that

In reply to Superchop75:

We're going to Broad Peak as our first one this year (without O2). Might be worth considering but it's a bit more out of the way. Summertime however if that makes a difference..

In reply to Superchop75: I would certainly recommend Manaslu over Cho Oyu. Difficulty wise not much in it (depending which summit you go to on Manaslu), but the overall experience of Manaslu would be much more enjoyable/ pleasant that Cho Oyu.

In reply to Superchop75:
I would definetly recommend Cho Oyu, contrary to certain literature it is a challenge. I have been on 3 8000m expeds over the past 4 years and used the below companies:

www.adventurepeaks.com
www.summitclimb.com
www.himalayanadventure

Tried manaslu and cho oyu and then summited cho oyu last year with himlayan adventure. The difference between companies is summit climb is very basic and yu basically pay for everything in addition and the service is not too good but i wont go into why on a forum. Adventure peaks are alot more and have everything included but they seem very much about the profit and surcharge you alot. Himalayan Adventure is the best in my experience as they are cheap and you get as much as all the other big companies and everything is included, very experienced and professional. I have however heard very good things about jagged globe but i have no experience personally. I have loads more information, feel free to email me for trip reports or more details.

In reply to hagakure7001:

Do you mean
www.thehimalayanadventurecompany.com or www.himalayanadventure.com

Cheers :]

In reply to hagakure7001:
.

I agree on this one. SC was really disappointing for me in 2009.. Although I do know a lot of people who have had great expeditions with them.....

However as with everything else in this world: you get what you pay for!

For a first climb to an 8000m peak I would definitely consider Manaslu or maybe even Shishapangma although Cho Oyu tends to be most peoples first choice...


Morts

In reply to Rhys Jones:

The summit is the highest point. There is only one, even on Manaslu, and the records are being adjusted accordingly. Most of the expeditions over the last decade did not go to the summit, they stopped short. People can go where they want and do whatever, it's just climbing, but once they make claims that are relatable to others then those claims will be judged within their community. That's just the way it is.

I don't know of any commercial expedition that has got anyone to the summit of Shishapangma, at least in the last decade or more. Plenty have reached the 'Central Summit' which is a lower bump on the ridge well west of the summit, and more than a few have been caught out lying about it. It's a great mountain, but not somewhere to go if you want a straightforward way to the summit of an 8000er. Nobody willingly stops 5m below, and 15m from, the summit of Everest - why do it on another 8000er?

Interesting to see Manaslu get so popular. For years it was deemed too objectively dangerous by all but a few climbers. Two friends have been missed by metres in serac/icefall in the last 10 years there. Once it became logistically and financially harder to take clients to Cho Oyu, the companies turned to Manaslu.

In reply to Superchop75:
An alternative approach to asking which peak to climb is asking which company or guide you want to climb with. And the choice of company you go with may actually be a more important factor in you having an enjoyable and successful trip than the peak you attempt to climb.

I say this assuming you are thinking of going with a commercial company, but of course I may be wrong.

In reply to dominic_c:

Sorry about that, was having a dum moment, I recomended himalayan adventure the most,only due to personal experience, as below, if i remember correctly they charged about £8000:

http://himalayanadventure.co.uk/ChoOyu.aspx

In reply to hagakure7001: Just checked them out. Look good thanks. Can you remember which hotel in Kathmandu they use?

In reply to Damo:
I don't know of any commercial expedition that has got anyone to the summit of Shishapangma, at least in the last decade or more. Plenty have reached the 'Central Summit' which is a lower bump on the ridge well west of the summit, and more than a few have been caught out lying about it. It's a great mountain, but not somewhere to go if you want a straightforward way to the summit of an 8000er. Nobody willingly stops 5m below, and 15m from, the summit of Everest - why do it on another 8000er?

Thats interesting, back in the 80's it was generally considered that Shishapangma was the 'easiest' 8000mt peak?

In reply to Superchop75:
With Himalayan Adventure we used the hotel d el annapurna just outside thamel, which was sweet as and all included. I have signed up for Everest in 2012 with them (hence no mountain for me this year) and are using Thame Eco resort Hotel in thamel, so probably worth checking with them, they are very approachable and informative so shouldnt be a problem. I think the main hotel to avoid is the hotel tibet which summit climb use, im used to budget hotels but that place sucks,lol.

In reply to hagakure7001:
Cheers for the link

In reply to hagakure7001: I thought Hotel Tibet was pretty good! But maybe I have low standards.

In reply to Superchop75:

not really in my bag but here is a good account of Cho Oyu:

http://www.gdargaud.net/Climbing/ChoOyu.html

In reply to hagakure7001:

Having a quick look at the Himalayan Adventures website, Andy seems like a "cool dude" (tm). But, they are quite clear about what they mean by being guided on an 8000m peak.

(I'm not posting this as a criticism nor am I making judgements of any kind 'cos I don't have the background. But, I found this interesting)

http://himalayanadventure.co.uk/EverestNorthRidgeRoute8848m.aspx

[quote]
Our Himalayan Adventure expedition via the North Ridge are not "guided" because this is not a realistic proposition in the high-altitude realm of 8,000 meters and above. "Guiding" and being "guided" implies the intimate supervision and care of a "client" by a "Guide" who can be responsible for the direct and immediate control of safety. On Everest, such a direct duty-of-care, implicit in the traditional guide-client relationship, is not possible.
[/quote]

fieldtouringalpine have something similar in their spiel

"During the ultra high altitude components of our 8000m expeditions (climbing legs above 7000m) the member accepts and fully understands that the level and quality of support and guidance is exponentially reduced the higher the member/team goes. Climbing on the world’s highest peaks is a potentially dangerous undertaking, and while we operate with safety as the highest priority, and have enjoyed a fatality free 14 year history in Pakistan, it must be understood by members that there are risks and dangers that neither leaders or members have any control over. Members need to be aware of these risks and accept their presence as being inherent to the pursuit of the world’s highest summits.

I would contend though, that there are a select few sherpas and guides who feel quite comfy hanging out on 8,000 m ridges and guiding their clients.

In reply to Annoying Twit:
I thnk its just about as a member taking responsibility about the situation you are choosing to put ourselves in, obviously i dont have experience on everest only cho oyu, but on cho oyu we did get a what i would consider a proper guided situation with HA.

All depends on what you call `guided`, we got guided one to one by a personal sherpa and 2/3 to one western guide but i would imagine any normal person could not afford to pay a western guide on a one to one basis which is the quated required ratio above 8000m, i think.

I would geuss its about not getting sued (as we like to do alot of these days) and getting the right sort of members.....not the ones that cant even put crampons on upside down,lol. Good new thread tho, but a tad off topic i think,lol.

In reply to Superchop75:

You might want to review p.33 (especially) of this document as part of your decision-making:
http://www.cer.ethz.ch/resec/sgvs/015.pdf

In reply to JJL:

Interesting. So Cho Oyu gives the best success/not dying combination?

In reply to Superchop75:

Page 35 is interesting - the use of bottled oxygen is correlated with a lower chance of ascent and a higher chance of dying. The use of a technical ice axe is likely to be associated with higher chance of ascent and a lower chance of dying.

Hmmm...

Possibly it says as much about the type of expeditions and types of climbers who use oxygen or technical axes rather than the kit itself.

In reply to almost sane:

Those stats are interesting although they only appear to cover up to 1998 and I would expect they would look a lot different if they went up to 2010

In reply to Rourke:

Yep. And they only go to 1998 for Everest, 1994 for the rest. There have been some significant changes over the years, with proportionally more people using O2 on Cho Oyu, Manaslu and K2, and people using more O2 than previously on Everest - 4l/min rather than 2l/min in the late 80s early 90s. More O2 needed means more Sherpas means more workers on the routes.

The other factor is even more recent, which is better weather forecasts meaning better planned ascents but sometimes more crowded weather windows. I think you'd also find that since 1994 there are proportionally more older and more younger climbers, rather than a tighter cluster in the 25-45 age group. Route changes have also meant that, in the last few years, G2 has had proportionally fewer ascents than G1.

Political issues 2007-2010 have also meant less climbers on Cho Oyu and Shishapangma, more on Manaslu and Makalu, and in a couple of years, less on Everest N side. And probably fewer on the Pakistani 8000ers in general than there would have been otherwise.

In reply to Damo and Rourke:

Sure, the data isn't perfect. I'll look forward to you both doing the comprehensive analysis to 2011 and expanding the range of parameters.

Meanwhile, let's hope it was in some way helpful to the OP eh?

In reply to Superchop75: Read two interesting books recently, 'No way down', Graham Bowley wrote this not a climber to record the events, based on abruzzi ridge K2. Some seemed to be stashing bottles for the return leg, if going up and down same route and not traversing.

The second'The Everest Boys' by Clint Willis the other, there are numerous expedition in the 1960's to 1985, sure kit and knowledge moved on from then.

My thoughts are o2 use down to individual and acclimitisation, o2 possibly over used today due to time constraints, etc. Think I read about some health draw backs, above purely the weight and bulk of carrying the stuff. Then you get into the numerous camps older seige tactics and more modern alpine style ascent debates. If the o2 is carried at the expense of water, then risk from HAPE/ HACE increase. Consider fire risk too

In reply to JJL:

Damo and Rourke were just too bloody lazy to mention

http://www.himalayandatabase.com/

and

http://www.8000ers.com/cms/

In reply to JJL:

I didn't say it wasn't useful, just that it would look very different if they went through to the present day as so much has changed which I believe is a fair point

Not much of a stats person but will be interested to look at those links Radson, cheers

I haven't been to Manaslu but have been to Cho Oyu and think that is a good choice as a first 8000er with its lack of objective dangers and relatively low avalanche risk

In reply to JR:

Hi JR, going to BP as well. When does your expedition start? How many climbers are you? Which agency are you using?

See you soon then!

In reply to Superchop75:

Hey, Cho Oyu and Broad Peak are technically very similar. Cho Oyu however is far better supported and sewn up by the big teams and sherpas. Broad Peak is a far more genuine high mountain experience though.

Expect to dish out about 50us per climber for use of the fixed ropes on Cho.

Cheers
Chris Szymiec
http://www.ganeshadventures.com

In reply to mansco:

Using Lela peaks

We leave the UK on 27th June

www.broadpeak2011.co.uk

We are 6 (maybe 7) climbers but have 3 others joining on our permit.

In reply to JJL:

Very interesting - you got a full reference for this paper?

In reply to JSTaylor:

http://www.corscalgary.org/2005-meetings/2005-03-18.htm