/ NEWS: UKC Launches an iPhone App

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
UKC News - on 11 Feb 2011
UKC Finder App - iPad screen, 4 kbThe UKC Finder App is now available for iPhone and iPad.

It has detailed listings to Climbing Walls, Outdoor Shops, Accommodation, Guides, Instructors, Outdoor Companies and Climbing Clubs all over the country and abroad.

Rockfax Guidebook Apps are also on their way.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=60292

marie - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News: This looks really good! However, and it may be me, but when I tried to download it said it was for iPhone 4.0 only and wouldn't let me install it. I have the 'retro' 3GS :-(
Enty - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Why did you aim this only at the iphone market when Blackberry has the largest share of the smartphone market?
Is it beacuse of IT reasons and because you can use it with the ipad?

E
johnkeith on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News: Any plans for an Android app?
In reply to UKC News: I find it so irritating that people neglect android! I know more people with an android phone and blackberry than I do with an iphone. Your not doing yourselves any favours ignoring the majority of users!
In reply to marie:
> (In reply to UKC News) This looks really good! However, and it may be me, but when I tried to download it said it was for iPhone 4.0 only and wouldn't let me install it. I have the 'retro' 3GS :-(

I have a 3Gs and it works fine on mine. I'll alert Stuart and see what he says, but it should work fine.

Alan
IainAM on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:


You've developed for an OS that only has the 4th largest market share.

It's a good idea to do some research before you you start. These aren't uk specific figures but are representative of the overall situation:
http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/gartner-says-symbian-still-leads-smartphone-race-20622
Bunchuk - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Well everyone's in a grumpy mood this morning!
In reply to Bunchuk:

It is because they are all miffed at missing out

Chris
stuartcoupe - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to marie:

Have you done a software update on your phone?

See http://www.apple.com/uk/ios/

The app was tested on a 3GS running a recent version of iOS.

Stuart.
remus - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News: Marie, I think you need to upgrade to the latest firmware. Should be able to do it by plugging your iPhone in to iTunes and the clicking 'check for updates' or something similar.

To the people being annoyed that it's only on he iPhone, from what I can tell these apps are just testing the water. If they're successful I'm sure an android version will follow. They probably decided to develop the first app for the iPhone because it has the most wel developed app Market thus making the success of the app more dependant on the utility of the app.
Tom Penrose on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Well I think its bloody brilliant! Cheers
stevemarkperry - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Excellent! I've been looking forward to this. Nice work.
SCC - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to remus:

The article states that there are no plans to develope for any other platforms, so I wont be holding my breath!

I'm not that fussed for this realease, as it's just the classifieds section, which I don't use much anyway.
But it's a shame I wont be able to use the guidebook app mentioned in the article (when it's produced).

I wonder if Alan & Co chose the iPhone/Pad because those devices are used to access UKC far more than Android, Winmo and Blackberry?
I'm not saying that's the case, but just because there are more BB's out there than iPhones, it doesn't mean that there are more BB users that access *this site* than iPhone users.
Actually, I think that may have been mentioned when they ran a pilot of this a while back...

Si (Android user).
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to IainAM:

> You've developed for an OS that only has the 4th largest market share.

Yep, that's right.

It's quite funny to see the apple users parrotting the company line about how it's just he bestest ever thing and has, like, more apps then like ANYTHING!!!!!!

The iphone has a smaller market share than blackberry and its share is actually falling while the others (especially android) are rising quickly. I'd be willing to bet that the reason the app is for iphone is because the people who ordered it have iphones (and we all know what people who have iphones are like).
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to remus:

> Marie, I think you need to upgrade to the latest firmware.

This'll be a fun thread - watching the "it just works" mob wrestling with firmware, settings and installation procedures. It just doesn't work folks - and boy did you waste a lot of money on it!!!

;)
Mike Stretford - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News: "At present we have no plans to produce versions for Android, Blackberry or Windows Mobile, but if the iPhone version proves popular then we will certainly look at the possibility of expanding the coverage."

I can't see the logic in that business wise....Android got double the market share of Apple in 2010, surely you'd want to reach the largest number of smartphone users?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jan/31/android-symbian-smartphone-sales
SCC - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to IainAM:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
>
> You've developed for an OS that only has the 4th largest market share.
>
> It's a good idea to do some research before you you start. These aren't uk specific figures but are representative of the overall situation:
> http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/gartner-says-symbian-still-leads-smartphone-race-20622

It'd be interesting to see those figures split between business and leisure use though.

I don't know ANYONE with a winmo or symbian device (I don't think...).
I know plenty with personal iPhones and Android phones - more with iPhones.
I only know a couple of people with personal Blackberry devices.

I do know loads of people with work Blackberry's - most of them don't really use them for browsing the web (possibly because the screen is just too small!).

Si
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Papillon:

Very true. There are pros and cons though.

PRO:
iPhone is a lucrative market. Its users are used to spending a lot of money on their phone: the phone itself is extremely expensive and users will pay for apps that other users will not, like Angry Birds.

iPhone has a good installed user base who are very active in downloading apps

iPhone users are very used to being dictated to and can be easily steered.

CON:
Falling market share

High cost of development

Exclusive licensing


There is actually a third way though. You can build a miniature web site formatted for mobile devices. That way it'll work on almost every platform, it'll look better and has much better accessibility and connectivity. Oh and it's much, MUCH cheaper to make.
Maestro - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:
I cant download it from the app store because it says it 'Requires ios4 update' I am on the original iphone (2g) and apple dont support ios4 on this phone. I have the most up to date ios3 though.

Over the last 12 months I have been approached by many different people interested in developing apps for UKC and/or Rockfax. 90% of these people have been iOS developers. I can't recall anyone offering Symbian and the Android app developers who approached us were only interested accessing our data so that they could develop their own products.

We wanted to develop something that belonged to UKC and which was integrated into our system. We couldn't afford expensive development costs which specialist companies would charge, so I chose Stuart Coupe who was basically offering to work with us, and had done some impressive work already. His work on a Rockfax app is already well progressed and looks really impressive. There was no-one similar to Stuart offering to work with us to develop an Android app. In our user survey last year 13% of our users owned iPhones, which worked out to be around 30% of all those who owned smart phones, which is significantly higher than the percentage of smartphone users over all. The iPhone app market is well developed and very easy to work with so it was the logical choice for us for this first step.

As stated in the article, we are just testing the water at the moment. If this proves successful and popular, especially with advertisers, then we will certainly look at developing versions for different platforms. These things are expensive to develop though and obviously, being a free app, bring little direct money back in for us.

Alan
remus - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle: A web page relies on being connected to the Internet though, so less than ideal if you're in one of the many places that doesn't have wifi/3G.
In reply to niggle:
> There is actually a third way though. You can build a miniature web site formatted for mobile devices. That way it'll work on almost every platform, it'll look better and has much better accessibility and connectivity. Oh and it's much, MUCH cheaper to make.

We tried this and it didn't really work due to the fact that you needed a 3G signal for it to do anything. The current app will 75% work without any signal since the data is part of it. Also, the web development route doesn't enable paid apps which is what we are interested in moving to next. Also, many of the features in the phone are harder to utilise with this web page route.

Alan
Maestro - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
> which is what we are interested in moving to next.

Logbook app? Id pay for that :)
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC:

> We wanted to develop something that belonged to UKC and which was integrated into our system.

Then why didn't you build a mobile web site? It would have used the same data sources the same framework and the same content as yor existing assets, but would have worked on all the platforms instead of only 30% of them, and would have accommodated the fast-growing platforms instead of just catering to one which is declining.

Why base decisions on how the market is now? Shouldn't you be basing them how the market will be in the 18 month to 3 year lifespan of the product?
stuartcoupe - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Maestro:

The app wont run on a 2G. As you have said it wont support iOS 4, which this app requires. Sorry.
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC:

> The current app will 75% work without any signal since the data is part of it.

Really? Won't the app need a connection every time it needs to update its content?

> Also, the web development route doesn't enable paid apps

There are such things as subscription web sites!

They're not very popular though because, as with apps, you can make a hell of a lot more money more easily, more flexibly and with smaller overheads with advertising than you can with one-off payments.
In reply to SCC:
> I wonder if Alan & Co chose the iPhone/Pad because those devices are used to access UKC far more than Android, Winmo and Blackberry?
> I'm not saying that's the case, but just because there are more BB's out there than iPhones, it doesn't mean that there are more BB users that access *this site* than iPhone users.
> Actually, I think that may have been mentioned when they ran a pilot of this a while back...

Well I have already given my main reasons for choosing to do the iOS version but the figures do support this as well.

Operating Systems Accessing UKC

Jan 2011


1. Windows 72.72%
2. Macintosh 17.81%
3. iPhone 3.50%
4. Linux 2.12%
5. Android 1.69%
6. iPad 0.79%
7. iPod 0.41%
8. (not set) 0.33%
9. BlackBerry 0.25%
10. SymbianOS 0.23%

January 2010

1. Windows 79.71%
2. Macintosh 14.85%
3. Linux 2.28%
4. iPhone 1.78%
5. SymbianOS 0.40%
6. iPod 0.30%
7. (not set) 0.25%
8. Android 0.15%
9. BlackBerry 0.14%
10. Sony 0.05%

January 2009

1. Windows 84.74%
2. Macintosh 10.57%
3. Linux 2.05%
4. (not set) 1.52%
5. iPhone 0.57%
6. iPod 0.22%
7. SymbianOS 0.19%
8. Playstation 3 0.07%
9. SunOS 0.04%
10. Android 0.01%
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC:

> In our user survey last year 13% of our users owned iPhones, which worked out to be around 30% of all those who owned smart phones

But the app will only work on half of those (iphone 4 owners). So let's imagine that 20% of those users will actually download and use the app. You're actually targeting what, 3% of users?

It's interesting, but is this really commercially viable for you?
mkean - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
But the app will only work on half of those (iphone 4 owners).

It will work with any iOS4 device so that means iPod Touch, iPhone3G, iPhone3GS, iPhone4. The iPhone2G is pretty rare these days.
In reply to niggle:
> It's interesting, but is this really commercially viable for you?

Probably not at the moment, but I am thinking about the future.

I suggest you look at the operating system figures above and then tell me which platform would have made more sense to us.

Alan
mkean - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
Is iOS actually a high development cost in comparison to other mobile formats, Symbian doesn't seem cheap and while Android initially seems to be you have a testing nightmare as it is so broadly applied. You need to test an iOS app once but need to test an android app on dozens of differing systems.
daimon - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
A path is formed by laying one stone at a time. :)
SCC - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to mkean:
> (In reply to niggle)
> .... You need to test an iOS app once but need to test an android app on dozens of differing systems.

Surely this is *the* major advantage of developing for iOS (or any apple OS for that matter).

Don't get me wrong, I hope that they do develope the Rockfax app for Android - but I can see why it makes sense for them to test all this out on the iPhone.

Si
MJ - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to daimon:

"A path is formed by laying one stone at a time. :)"

Doesn't crazy paving start with the same process?




niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC:

> I suggest you look at the operating system figures above and then tell me which platform would have made more sense to us.

Oh, I have. I think you're forgetting that this is what I do for a living.

As I've said, I would have suggested developing a microsite optimised for mobile. It's platform-independent, flexible, you can change and upgrade it when you like, offers better monetisation options and the development costs are a fraction of any other system.

More importantly, that's the path that future systems are going to take. The "what if there's no connection" argument sounds sensible on the surface, but in reality it's as short-sighted as refusing to have a web site because users don't have a web connection all the time.

I understand that iphone apps are cool. There's even a small amount of brand value in being able to say you have one. But it's an investment in an old-fashioned product on a shrinking platform for a fringe market. it might well pay for itself - might even make some money. But you don't have to be a business guru to realise that if it does it would do even better if it targeted a bigger market with more money in it.
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to SCC:

> Surely this is *the* major advantage of developing for iOS (or any apple OS for that matter).

Again, this is like refusing to have a web site because there are lots of different systems which will access it.

remus - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
> (In reply to Alan James - UKC)
>
The "what if there's no connection" argument sounds sensible on the surface, but in reality it's as short-sighted as refusing to have a web site because users don't have a web connection all the time.
>

For something that is inherently likely to be used on the move, where an internet connection is least likely to be found, how is a web app better than something largely independent of an internet connection?
In reply to niggle:

>
>
> Oh, I have. I think you're forgetting that this is what I do for a living.
>

Something to do with photography wasn't it?


Chris
mkean - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
More importantly, that's the path that future systems are going to take. The "what if there's no connection" argument sounds sensible on the surface, but in reality it's as short-sighted as refusing to have a web site because users don't have a web connection all the time.

Given the rate of improvements in data availabiltity in areas that Rockfax sells guidebooks I'm not sure it is that short sighted. A full colour topo-guidebook delivered as a website is a reasonable quantity of data to be pulling through a shaky 2G connection which is what is available at a lot of UK crags. I'd agree it is a viable method of delivery in areas like the Alps where good data coverage is available but not in the UK. There is no financial incentive to provide high speed data to the Llanberis pass, Ramshaw Rocks etc and I'm not going to cache up 50 pages while driving up the M6 just so I can see the guidebook when I arrive.
ads.ukclimbing.com
In reply to niggle:
> As I've said, I would have suggested developing a microsite optimised for mobile. It's platform-independent, flexible, you can change and upgrade it when you like, offers better monetisation options and the development costs are a fraction of any other system.

As I said, we did, it is here - http://www.ukclimbing.com/m4/
It just didn't work very well, but feel free to use it if you want.

Alan
Arcticboy - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Loving the App guys, works perfectly on my 3GS, and I've already found a wall to take the family to when I'm up north in a couple of weeks time.

Col.

<another positive review to make niggle's head explode>
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to mkean:

Do you go to a crag and expect there to be a bookshop there to sell you the guidebook?

Or do you buy it before you leave?
mkean - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
Do you go to a crag and expect there to be a bookshop there to sell you the guidebook?

No I take a guidebook with me, which is a sensible idea. You are the one proposing a "Bookshop at the crag".
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to mkean:

> No I take a guidebook with me, which is a sensible idea. You are the one proposing a "Bookshop at the crag".

No, you're one who's complaining that there won't be a connection at the crag.
lithos on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to mkean:
> (In reply to niggle)
> There is no financial incentive to provide high speed data to the Llanberis pass, Ramshaw Rocks etc and I'm not going to cache up 50 pages while driving up the M6 just so I can see the guidebook when I arrive.

why not ? if i could tell the smartphone - im going here (ramshaw/roaches/,...) please cache all the pages i need then get rid of them later - whats wrong with that ?
mkean - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
No, you're one who's complaining that there won't be a connection at the crag.

Yes Niggle I'm complaining that there won't be a connection at the crag for your proposed WEBSITE, which requires a connection to the INTERNET. I take my data with me.

mkean - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to lithos:
why not ? if i could tell the smartphone - im going here (ramshaw/roaches/,...) please cache all the pages i need then get rid of them later - whats wrong with that ?


You want an application for that not a website.
Arcticboy - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:

Niggle, any chance of you pulling your head out of your arse and accepting the reasoning that Alan and the chaps have given for going with the iOS platform? That would be far better that trying to turn everything into a pointless argument.

Col
lithos on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to mkean:

like sitesucker type application thats works from website ? the data is on the website and accessible -i'd expect there is a firefox extension that does something similar - browsers are apps :-)
ian clarke - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News: i think this is a great start along the app route that a lot of people have been asking for or mentioning would be cool if it happened. i hope it goes well and gets developed for guide books as well.

i wont mind paying for guide books for areas.

i wish you all at ukc good luck and happy and safe climbing for 2011 nice work
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to mkean:

> I take my data with me.

Go for it.

All you're doing is carrying a guidebook.
Only a hill - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Arcticboy:
> (In reply to niggle)
>
> Niggle, any chance of you pulling your head out of your arse and accepting the reasoning that Alan and the chaps have given for going with the iOS platform? That would be far better that trying to turn everything into a pointless argument.
>
> Col

Seconded.
jbellj1 - on 11 Feb 2011
mkean - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
Go for it.
All you're doing is carrying a guidebook.


By Jove I think he's got it! What is it that Rockfax sells?

niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Arcticboy:

> That would be far better that trying to turn everything into a pointless argument.

Says the guy who starts his post by bellowing that my head's "up my arse".
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to mkean:

> By Jove I think he's got it! What is it that Rockfax sells?

Uh-huh.

Isn't the point of new technology to offer new value and opportunity rather than just repackaging the old stuff in a fragile, water-sensitive cover?
mkean - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to lithos:
Yes, pulling all the data from a website is an option but it isn't very elegant. When you sell guidebooks you are selling a convenience product, people that sell less user friendly guidebooks sell less of them.
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to mkean:

> Yes, pulling all the data from a website is an option but it isn't very elegant.

Errr... that's what the app does mate.
Gareth Pritchard - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News: crashes on my ipod 4, whenever i touch a link on the maps the app just shuts down.
ads.ukclimbing.com
Arcticboy - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:

Calm down cupcake, getting all excited won't do your blood pressure any good.
lithos on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to mkean:

yep i get it (but as an android user im disappointed-id pay for a crags/guidebook thing)
but really i was just pointing out caching isnt really a no no and given i can stuff 64Gb in my phone i could easily store all the UKC pages i wanted in a cache -and the technology is developing (like the map apps that cache pages/sections/maps for you) they are crude at the moment - i should be able to say in google maps here's my route cache everything i might need please at all resolutions for example)

but yes an android app would be nice :-)
Mike Stretford - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
> (In reply to SCC)
> [...]
>
> Well I have already given my main reasons for choosing to do the iOS version but the figures do support this as well.
>
> Operating Systems Accessing UKC
>

I agree those are good reasons, but in light of your own figures and the general take up figure, I think an Android version would be a good thing to do. iphone access to UKC has doubled, while Android access has increased ten-fold, over the last year. I'd bet the mortgage that by the time you had the app out more people will be accessing with Android.

I take your point about the developers, but a year ago they could afford to be picky, I know there are more programmers learning (or have learnt) Android now.



niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Papillon:

> I'd bet the mortgage that by the time you had the app out more people will be accessing with Android.

Seems likely, doesn't it?

It's possible that android may drop the ball, but apple's refusal to innovate is hurting them badly in the marketplace. It's been five years and still no Flash!!!!
mkean - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
Good work Niggle, the idea is to offer new value. New value in terms of guidebooks would be things like AR, or video based beta? Which are data intensive and therefore better pre-installed as an application.
Tall Clare - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:

hello

splendid news, but for those of us with crappy old free Nokias (5800, to be precise), please can you sort out the website login issue that several of us raised with Nick a couple of weeks ago too?

many thanks in advance

A Luddite.
stuartcoupe - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Gareth Pritchard:

Thanks for the feedback. I'll take a look into it now.
Mike Stretford - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
> (In reply to Papillon)
>
> [...]
>
> Seems likely, doesn't it?
>

I reckon. I only really posted as I went mobile shopping with my girlfriend last week. The HTCs and Samsung Galaxies were shiffting by the ton (in a few different shops), I didn't even see an iphone. I couldn't help but notice it.
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to mkean:

> New value in terms of guidebooks would be things like AR, or video based beta?

That would be very cool! But you're right, most mobile systems are some way off the kind of bandwidth needed for those applications. There are other more immediate possibilities though.
Arcticboy - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:

Anymore anti-apple clichés you'd like to trot out?
Mita on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Works fine on my iPhone... Although I was wondering about the accommodation side of it... Looking at the location of Snowdon, it doesn't give all the accommodation in the area, so is it that you have to have the BB's/campsites/hotels advertise at a fee or for free, so they will show up in a search or is the app picking up all accommodation in the area or am I being really stupid, as there seems to be some missing & they didn't show up in a search :0)
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Papillon:

> The HTCs and Samsung Galaxies were shiffting by the ton (in a few different shops), I didn't even see an iphone. I couldn't help but notice it.

I got one last week. I would've quite liked an iphone but I need it to synch immediately with all my google accounts and iphone was just a faff to get that working on.
sutty on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:

Instead of being negative about what has been done, how about showing Al how good you are by making the platform you say will work for UKC. You may even get paid a small sum for it, if it works.
mkean - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
I was just thinking about this, how good is UK data coverage: Assuming UKC trotted out a "UKC streaming Video Beta app" tomorrow, how many UK crags could you use it at?
So lets say video at 480x320x30fps, what data rate would you actually need to stream it and where is that achievable in the UK?
Ron Walker - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
> (In reply to marie)
> [...]
>
> I have a 3Gs and it works fine on mine. I'll alert Stuart and see what he says, but it should work fine.
>
> Alan

Works fine on my 3Gs too

Ron

niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to sutty:

> Instead of being negative about what has been done, how about showing Al how good you are by making the platform you say will work for UKC. You may even get paid a small sum for it, if it works.

Sounds good to me!

If I can find time this spring maybe we could look into it.
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to mkean:

> I was just thinking about this, how good is UK data coverage

Mmmm, not great really. We're pretty backward here, there a lot of areas which are still stuck with half a meg broadband speed because BT/openreach haven't met their targets for installing decent infrastructure, let alone fast mobile bandwidth.
Milesy - on 11 Feb 2011
Thanks guys. Doesn't work for me but that is because I have not put on os4 yet. Couldnt be bothered but I will now :)
SCC - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
> (In reply to SCC)
>
> [...]
>
> Again, this is like refusing to have a web site because there are lots of different systems which will access it.

No it's not.
It's developing an app for a specific mobile device and OS before deciding whether it's worth putting the time and money into doing it for another OS with a far wider range of hardware types that use it.

But you crack on with your anti apple rhetoric.

Si

(who doesn't own, or want to own any apple products - but realises that other people do, and doesn't have a problem with that)
Simon Caldwell - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
> I suggest you look at the operating system figures above and then tell me which platform would have made more sense to us.

Looking at the percentages of portable OSs only, iPhone has dropped from 74% to 62%, Symian from 25% to 3%, and Android has risen from 1% to 30%.

So based on your figures, Android seems to make most sense.

Though by the time I get round to upgrading my phone I expect Windows/Nokia will be clear market leaders...
ads.ukclimbing.com
Gareth Pritchard - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Toreador: no way, the nokia n8 is a huge let down. i have the HTC desire hd and i can honestly say its the best phone on the market and i see HTC dominating the market for years to come.
Swig - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Yep seems to work ok. Menu structure's a little bit rigid. Could do with a back button. Seems like a reasonable choice to pick a platform and develop an app.

As I understand it for Android they'd need to test a stack of different phones and different versions of Android. So the testing is harder than developing for Apple or WP7.
winhill - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to IainAM:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> It's a good idea to do some research before you you start. These aren't uk specific figures but are representative of the overall situation:

Symbian (the most popular on these results, second to android elsewhere) is surely dead now?
Irk the Purist - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:

No flash and a burgeoning apps market. The two are related. It's devious, but no flash means you can't just go online and do everything, you need apps.

It's been pretty successful so far.

In reply to UKC News:

As a starter I think it is excellent.

Better get cracking on Peak Limestone by the sound of it!

Chris
Scarab - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News

Android.
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to SCC:

> It's developing an app for a specific mobile device and OS before deciding whether it's worth putting the time and money into doing it for another OS with a far wider range of hardware types that use it.

As I've said, there is a third way: develop an application which works on any mobile with a web browser.

This isn't about being anti-apple, its about creating a better experience for users. I don't advise not to develop for iphone, I advise not to only develop for iphone. There's a big difference.
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Eric the Red:

> It's devious, but no flash means you can't just go online and do everything, you need apps.

Spot on.

Then apple wonder why their market share is dropping while everyone else is making huge gains.

> It's been pretty successful so far.

It's a short term strategy for short term gain. As we can see, in the long run, this is bad business.
Only a hill - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
I have an Android phone, yet still use apps for everything and have never needed Flash yet. I suspect most users don't even know what Flash is.
niggle - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Only a hill:

If you look at UKClimbing on your phone, you use flash (for the ads).
Swig - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:

Do you think they are aiming to maximise market share?
The New NickB - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
> (In reply to Only a hill)
>
> If you look at UKClimbing on your phone, you use flash (for the ads).

Is that why my UKC browsing experience is so much more pleasant on my iPad, compared to my PC?

UKC Events Diary

Someone has just asked me if we could do a UKC Events App. In fact we have had the UKC Events Diary available in a smartphone compatible format for ages which integrates nicely with the different calendars formats.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/events.html - scroll down to the base.

Alan
In reply to metal arms:
> (In reply to Swig)
> So perhaps Niggle is wrong.
>
> This is simply not possible.

Sadly he isn't wrong in this case. Many of the ads on UKC are not Flash, the big one on the right of the home page is and that is a hole on iOS.

The next release of iOS will deal with Flash though.

Alan
Swig - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC:

Ah yep, I've got a blank box with UKC Advertising written on it.
Same on my WP7 phone.
Swig - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
> (In reply to Swig)

> I think they're aiming to build a loyal following of committed users who'll pay their prices rather than just making a money.

right so judging them on Market share is limited. Especially in smart phones which is a growing Market. Sorry about the strange capitalisation of Market. Someone at apple thinks it should have a capital and I can't be bothered to change that.

Jus - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Doesn't work on my 3G, I get an instant message saying that I need an iPhone 4 :-(
Mike Stretford - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Swig: I think Apples exclusivity policies have given them longevity (up to now), as they always get a slice of the hardware market, but it also means other OSs and and hardware types come to dominate the market later on.
Alasdair - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Gareth Pritchard:

Agree, Execllent phone. Android all the way
stuartcoupe - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Jus:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> Doesn't work on my 3G, I get an instant message saying that I need an iPhone 4 :-(

You will need to update your phone software.
Connect it to iTunes and will usually prompt you to update...
ads.ukclimbing.com
IainAM on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC:

I understand the reasons why you've gone with the iPhone but there are other factors to consider with mobile usage, user experience being the most important.
The figures you gave for access don't reflect whether people want to access from mobile and don't because it doesn't work well. I'm currently on windows mobile 6.5 and I would access ukc more but it's slow and cumbersome with my phone so I don't. (I'm not suggesting you develop a Windows one though, at all)

Maybe a question for a survey would be who wants to access from mobile, (regardless of whether they currently do,) and what OS they are using? I'd bet that the iPhone wouldn't be at the top.

Anyway, unlike niggle I don't do it for a living and can't suggest alternatives.
garethMottram - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
Actually there isn't a very high cost of development on the iPhone only a licensing fee for listing paid for apps on the app store. If it's a free app the cost of deployment is minimal.
in response to others complaining about lack of balckberry/symbian support. The development environments for those two operating systems are a nightmare, for example creating a text variable in symbian is a 3 line procedure, not 1 as with iOS/Android/WP7. This is part of it's battery/memory frugality but means it's a pig to quickly develop a decent application for. The blackberry is just really inconsistent for this kind of application. Blackberry in particular has a lot of sub segmentation in the market which means there are a number of function incompatible phones on sale next to each other. that means that there is very little return on developing for it. Added to which the user experience varies from decent to god awful depending on how much developer time you have.
Currently the android market doesn't have the same level of support, or indeed consistency as the iOS however it is much easier to develop for than Symbian or blackberry. Some of the global figures that you see for android growth are a little misleading as many of the global figures contain incompatible chinese variations that have branched from the original Android program. However the market is growing quickly and I'd expect to see and android version for 2.3 + at some point, or if I was involved in the development program that's what I'd do.
ooh, that was a whole post and no climbing, I should lie down....
garethMottram - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
> (In reply to SCC)
>
> [...]
>
> As I've said, there is a third way: develop an application which works on any mobile with a web browser.
>
> This isn't about being anti-apple, its about creating a better experience for users. I don't advise not to develop for iphone, I advise not to only develop for iphone. There's a big difference.

In many ways I'd agree with that but this seems to have a pretty smartly thought out caching so that you can access the data at the crag, where reception can be 'variable'.
I'd actually say rejigg the backend to produce XML/Json objects so that you need even less bandwidth to access it and can then either use a browser to access it or build a little app to interface directly to it.Though again we hit the problem with the consistency of mobile browsers, only iOS and Android actually have nearly full implementations. All based on the web-kit tools.
garethMottram - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Papillon:
but remember Apple aren't interested in low margin high volume, they make a worthwhile profit on everything rather than relying on massive volumes to tick over, look at the trouble Dell have had with the volume model in recent years, or MS with the Xbox, loosing money on every one in an attempt to create a market, then the Wii comes along, outsells them and makes a profit on each unit. There are always more business models out there and it's worth being aware that there isn't one that works for everyone, the only way you can be sure of the efficacy of the implementation is in retrospect.
Mike Stretford - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to garethMottram: Yeah I agree their model is good, it has worked. I am starting to wander though, I've been shopping for phones and laptops recently, their products do seem to be getting surpassed.... but maybe they've got something just round the corner!

Thanks for the long post, it was illuminating.
Enty - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Wow 105 posts long. It was 6 posts long when I left this morning - in the time in between I've climbed 7 routes ;-)

E
In reply to Enty:

> Wow 105 posts long. It was 6 posts long when I left this morning - in the time in between I've climbed 7 routes ;-)

9 here, but then my phone's on Android... ;-)
Sankey - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News: Given that a fair few people on this site can apparantly navigate to the top of mountains in the Alps and beyond , I have a sneaky feeling that Android phone owners might be able to continue to find their local shops without the app for a while...
In reply to IainAM:
> Maybe a question for a survey would be who wants to access from mobile, (regardless of whether they currently do,) and what OS they are using? I'd bet that the iPhone wouldn't be at the top.

As I mentioned initially, we didn't actually choose iOS because we reckoned it was the most popular platform, it just suited what we wanted to test it on and we had the right kind of developer in Stuart to do the work.

Our stats don't really show which platform is the 'most owned' amongst our readers and the question we asked in last year's survey was poorly worded hence it didn't show much. We did know that iPhones are used to access UKC a lot, and that 13% of our users have iPhones, which seemed to indicate that it would be appreciated by enough people.

We did ask 'Which features would you consider paying for to view/use/buy?

None - 50%
Rockfax Guidebook App - 26%
UKC Crag Database App - 23%
UKC Logbook App - 16%
UKC Classifieds App - 5%

Faced with this it may seem strange that we chose the Classifieds. The answer is that it was by far the easiest since the database was in good shape and the App didn't need to do too much. Also, we could make it free due to the fact we can sell advertising presence on it.

Alan
Alkis - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:

> I got one last week. I would've quite liked an iphone but I need it to
> synch immediately with all my google accounts and iphone was just a faff to
> get that working on.

In what way? You just add the Gmail Exchange account and that's about it.
MJ - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to garethMottram:

Microsoft and Nokia seem to be merging, with Symbian being given the heave-ho: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12427680



jaxxman on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
> (In reply to Papillon)
>
> [...]
>
> Seems likely, doesn't it?
>
> It's possible that android may drop the ball, but apple's refusal to innovate is hurting them badly in the marketplace. It's been five years and still no Flash!!!!

I find it hard to understand how you can justify the statement "Apple's refusal to innovate is hurting them badly in the market place" What planet are you on? They created the market place in the 1st instance.

Yes, Apple may only have 4.2% of the global smartphone market, but it creates 51% of the entire markets profits, up from 32% in Aug 2009. How is this hurting Apple? when it's the 2nd largest company on the planet & making more profits (in the smart phone market) than ALL of the other suppliers combined.

Without Apple & the iPhone, there would be no Apps, there would be no global smartphone market, there would be no 'Tablet' market & there would certainly NOT be an Android operating system. Android simply would NOT exist.
jaxxman on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC:

> As stated in the article, we are just testing the water at the moment. If this proves successful and popular, especially with advertisers, then we will certainly look at developing versions for different platforms. These things are expensive to develop though and obviously, being a free app, bring little direct money back in for us.
>
> Alan

What is it with some people? Why can't they simply be happy that UKC are taking steps to improve the site & the whole UKC experience for its users?

So what if it's only being developed of IOS at present. The fact that an App is being developed at all should be cause for a celebration.

Alan's explained his reasoning behind UKC dipping their toe in the water by only developing for IOS. This is sensible based on the survey results & the fact that it's the most stable & innovative platform out there, with a huge amount of developers willing & able to put a great deal of time & effort to create a free App.

You can drag out time & time again the old & recycled arguments over which platform is better. But if you look at it logically its easy to see why IOS was chosen. You design an App for IOS and it is able to be used on practically every iPhone, iPad, Ipod Touch etc out there (barring the old, old models). You design an App for Android & due to its fragmentation you have to design for different versions of the platform (Froyo, Gingerbread, Honeycomb etc). Different smart phone models, screen sizes, resolution power, processor speed etc. Symbian & Windows 7, or Windows 6 etc are all the same fragmented.

Development costs, time & effort etc are all reduced by utilising IOS & for a company to start developing Apps it's a no brainer, it's the less risky & most profitable option.

So whilst some UKC users see this as a chance to complain even more, lets take a step back & actually congratulate UKC for taking its first steps on creating its own Apps. For putting the effort in to make the site & the whole UKC experience far better for its users. Having downloaded & used it today I am happy with the App. Whilst it may still need some work, it is far better to have something which can be improved over time than have nothing at all. I for one cannot wait for the logbook App.

Congratulations UKC.
Arcticboy - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
> (In reply to metal arms)
>
> The next release of iOS will deal with Flash though.
>
> Alan

ooh! Do explain Alan!?

Col
gjh - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News: Looks really promising, hope you guys do a blackberry version.
Johnny Baker - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News: good move - will rockfax do something similar for topos to areas?
bomb on 11 Feb 2011 - host81-141-76-164.wlms-broadband.com
In reply to UKC News:

What has the world of climbing come to when so many "climbers" get so worked up about the latest "app" not being available on their particular smartphone?
Tragic.
MJ - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to bomb:

My mobile does calls and texts and I think that's it.
It's due to have some more credit put onto it as it's been on 23p for the last week or so.
Hardonicus - on 11 Feb 2011
In reply to MJ:

word.
MJ - on 12 Feb 2011
In reply to Hardonicus:

"word".

Maybe tomorrow when I've got more credit?



ads.ukclimbing.com
bomb on 12 Feb 2011 - host81-141-76-164.wlms-broadband.com
In reply to MJ:

Double word.
MJ - on 12 Feb 2011
In reply to bomb:

"Double word".

Are we playing Scrabble now?





dancey1981 on 12 Feb 2011
My iPhone is class and now proper classer now like marrahs! And so is my iPad like now like! I've got UKC apps all over and I'm going to get it tattooed on me like now like! Better than having a Blackberry like mate like!
Morgan Woods - on 12 Feb 2011
In reply to IainAM:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
>
> You've developed for an OS that only has the 4th largest market share.
>
> It's a good idea to do some research before you you start. These aren't uk specific figures but are representative of the overall situation:
> http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/gartner-says-symbian-still-leads-smartphone-race-20622

it's a good idea to add some context....apps are not Symbian's strong suit (7,000 apps in 2010 vs 225,000 for apple).
Morgan Woods - on 12 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
> (In reply to IainAM)
>
> [...]
>
> Yep, that's right.
>
> It's quite funny to see the apple users parrotting the company line about how it's just he bestest ever thing and has, like, more apps then like ANYTHING!!!!!!
>
> The iphone has a smaller market share than blackberry and its share is actually falling while the others (especially android) are rising quickly. I'd be willing to bet that the reason the app is for iphone is because the people who ordered it have iphones (and we all know what people who have iphones are like).

wait - are you not an apple fan(boi)? had no idea.

in any case i think this debate which you are helping generate is quite healthy....nothing worse than blind adherence to a particular operating system.
Morgan Woods - on 12 Feb 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC:

good points Alan and thanks indeed to Stuart for doing the development. Would be good to hear more from him about what is involved in putting the app together.

Just to illustrate:

UKC threads with "iphone" in subject - 56
UKC threds with "android" in subject - 11*

* and 9 of these relate to BD leashes and 1 is "Japanese develop a female android". Only one is about the phone OS!
Morgan Woods - on 12 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
> (In reply to Alan James - UKC)
>
> it's an investment in an old-fashioned product on a shrinking platform for a fringe market.

which part of:

Jan 2011

3. iPhone 3.50%
5. Android 1.69%

January 2010

4. iPhone 1.78%
8. Android 0.15%

January 2009

5. iPhone 0.57%
10. Android 0.01%

didn't you understand? Seems like at least is far as UKC is concerned both platforms are growing. In the wider CONSUMER market i would imagine these trends would be replicated.
IainAM on 12 Feb 2011
In reply to Morgan Woods:
> (In reply to IainAM)
> [...]
>
> it's a good idea to add some context....apps are not Symbian's strong suit (7,000 apps in 2010 vs 225,000 for apple).

I wasn't suggesting they develop for symbian, merely pointing out that they'd developed for a small share of the market, and anyway, as of yesterday symbian doesn't exist.

Actually the important part of that article is that Android has gone from 4% to 23% in a year, and currently IS the strongest genuine smartphone OS, despite the number of people who don't know anyone with one. I personally only know 1 person with an iPhone, so there. For apps the iPhone used to be the obvious choice but it's not any more.

There's also the issue of whether an app is actually the best way of going about it. As I said above looking at usage figures doesn't take account of who would like to access but don't because the experience is bad, like me, (and imagining the same usage stats applying elsewhere isn't the same as it being true.)

As I also said above, I understand why they went with the iPhone but I just wanted to point out that it immediately cuts out more of the potential market than it needed to.
ricky6386 - on 12 Feb 2011
In reply to carrot_boy (North East Wales MC): Yep got a new Android phone the other day.......2nd UKC article I've read that has informed me of three or four different iphone climbing apps.....that I cant have.....bloody apple!
g taylor - on 12 Feb 2011
In reply to Morgan Woods:

2nd that!

Its good to see UKC being customer focused rather than prescriptive.

Nice app.

UKC - Whens the rockfax database coming? :-)

Simon Caldwell - on 12 Feb 2011
In reply to jaxxman:
> Why can't they simply be happy that UKC are taking steps to improve the site & the whole UKC experience for its users?

I imagine the response would have been different if the article didn't include the statement "At present we have no plans to produce versions for Android, Blackberry or Windows Mobile". Alan's follow-up reply leaves the door slightly more open than this.
In reply to Toreador:
> I imagine the response would have been different if the article didn't include the statement "At present we have no plans to produce versions for Android, Blackberry or Windows Mobile". Alan's follow-up reply leaves the door slightly more open than this.

That is the second time someone has quoted that line from the article on this thread and omitted the finish of the sentence:

.... but if the iPhone version proves popular then we will certainly look at the possibility of expanding the coverage.

Alan
In reply to Alan James - UKC: Seems like ignoring people's choice of 'phone is akin to criticising their children...
kabutsu - on 12 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News: If only it was on android!
Ian McNeill - on 12 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:

really nice app !

interesting % of Iphone users on here I wonder if that is the same elsewhere ?

JuneBob on 12 Feb 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
Tough crowd.
Tris.w - on 12 Feb 2011
Gonna have to say it again...



Make it for ANDROID phones too!

Thanks

Tris.w
David Martin - on 12 Feb 2011
In reply to garethMottram:

> In many ways I'd agree with that but this seems to have a pretty smartly thought out caching so that you can access the data at the crag, where reception can be 'variable'.

...not to mention that many might wish to turn their various phone features (such as 3G connection) off while at a crag, preventing the phone battery from failing due to repeated attempts to gain a weak signal.

Offline coverage is simply more ideal for this kind of sport. If searching for the nearest McDonalds or Costa web access is fine. Looking for details at the crag, I'd rather have downloaded earlier and have offline access.
pneame on 13 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:
Well I think it's very cool indeed - oh, wait a minute, there's nothing in Florida. Well that sucks. Must be a useless app.... no use for anyone.... there's even accommodation in S Africa and NOTHING IN FLORIDA which is absolutely crawling with brits....

Seriously. Great app. I starting doing something along these lines about a year ago but gave up when I realised I was never going to have time to immerse myself enough in it to produce anything that would pass the App store thought police. And I'm not a very good programmer, even with all the tools that you get with Xcode.

9.9 /10 Just needs somewhere to store one's own notes.
pneame on 13 Feb 2011
In reply to niggle:
> (In reply to Alan James - UKC)
>
> [...]
>
> But the app will only work on half of those (iphone 4 owners).

No. It needs iOS 4 not an iPhone 4. And the upgrade is free and works fine on all but the original iPhones (I'll admit there are a lot of those out there - I'd have one if I hadn't washed it)

ads.ukclimbing.com
Mike Stretford - on 13 Feb 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC: In reply to Alan James - UKC:
> (In reply to Toreador)
> [...]
>
> That is the second time someone has quoted that line from the article on this thread and omitted the finish of the sentence:
>
> .... but if the iPhone version proves popular then we will certainly look at the possibility of expanding the coverage.
>
> Alan

I might be mistaken, but after a quick look it looks like there was only me who quoted it, and I quoted the whole thing. I know you get some shit from people but this is free customer feedback.... from your comments it just looks like you might have had a bit of a blind spot for for the rising popularity of Android.
Simon Caldwell - on 13 Feb 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
> That is the second time someone has quoted that line from the article on this thread and omitted the finish of the sentence:
> .... but if the iPhone version proves popular then we will certainly look at the possibility of expanding the coverage.

I read that as meaning "we're not going to support any other platforms, but might reconsider that decision at some point in the future", ie don't hold your breath.

Apologies if I misunderstood!
matt_lethargic - on 13 Feb 2011
I'm more than happy to help out with developing an app for Android. I've just finished creating one for a Cruise travel agent. Also I'd like to see crag information in it as people have mentioned.

Have sent Alan James a pm, waiting for reply

Matt

:)
Duncan_Andison - on 13 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:

I was a long time iPhone user.....now I have an HTC Desire HD.

The phone out performs the iphone in so many ways. The ipnones camera is still better but it's ar&s is kicked when it comes to multi tasking, syncing draging and droping documents, music and videos and so on and so on.

I would say it's a good start but to ignore Android could prove a costly mistake.

Duncan
simondgee - on 13 Feb 2011
In reply to Duncan_Andison:
Why would it be costly?
The app is currently free, lack of android is hardly likely to affect ad revenues and if you are on android you are are no worse off than you were before.
stuartcoupe - on 13 Feb 2011
In reply to David Martin:

> Offline coverage is simply more ideal for this kind of sport.

I think its essential. Network coverage is far from complete. Many climbing areas have no coverage. I have struggled to keep up with all the lively debate on this thread as I have been away in Scotland this weekend.

Holding all the data on the phone gives a better user experience. It will always tell you where the nearest wall is, wherever you are. It also removes annoying delays waiting for data over slow networks, if you do have a connection.

Jonny2vests - on 14 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Nice on Alan, Stuart & co. A good start.
Duncan_Andison - on 14 Feb 2011
In reply to simondgee:

I wasn't referring to monetary value.

Costly as in, missing out on an extremely large and growing market. Android phones are quickly increasing in popularity and given their extra flexibility they could quickly catch up and over take the iPhone.

I'm not iPhone bashing, they are superb phones but after having one for 3 years they hadn't really change much in appearance (OS). it had become a little stale. So I sold the iPhone 4 and bought the Desire HD and I'm so glad I did. Mind you, you'll never get me to sell my Mac ;-)

So, given how popular Android is becoming, it may prove costly (from a marketing perspective) to place all eggs in one basket, especially as Steve Jobs is out of the frame for a while... he is Apple.
simondgee - on 14 Feb 2011
In reply to Duncan_Andison:
Sorry still don't understand how is it costly (cost presumably meaning suffering some degree of loss)...even if every body in the country had an android phone and UKC app was only for Iphones i don't see it would make any difference. UKC it has a pretty much unchallenged position and massive loyalty. As far as I can see the App is feature (for some) not a differentiator.
paul__in_sheffield - on 14 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News: Nice one chaps, the app looks great on both the iPad and iPhone.
banned profile 74 on 15 Feb 2011 - 137.32.112.87.dyn.plus.net
In reply to UKC News: Who decides which climbing wall gets premier status?I ask because the Leeds wall isn't,neither is the foundry or the edge but lots of the boulder only wall are.also if I search for climbing shops the actual closest one to me isn't listed and plenty of climbing Walls are missed off.is it just waiting for others to be added?
In reply to beastofackworth:
> (In reply to UKC News) Who decides which climbing wall gets premier status?I ask because the Leeds wall isn't,neither is the foundry or the edge but lots of the boulder only wall are.also if I search for climbing shops the actual closest one to me isn't listed and plenty of climbing Walls are missed off.is it just waiting for others to be added?

The businesses themselves decide who gets Premier Status by buying a Premier Classified listing.

The database with all the listings in for the app is the same one as the Classified section of the site. This has almost 2000 listings but obviously isn't complete. Missing listings can be easily added using this link - http://www.ukclimbing.com/listings/add.php . The App then auto-updates when you load it on a wifi.

I'd be very surprised if there were many climbing walls that were worth visiting that aren't listed though. The Premier Listings have a higher search radius so they show up when non-premiers don't which may give the impression that there are walls which aren't in the system, but I suggest you search first since they probably are.

Alan
Alun - on 15 Feb 2011
In reply to UKC News:
What Android owners who are complaining don't realise is that app developers only have a certain about of time/money, and frequently can't develop multiplatform simultaneously. So, they invariably plump for the iPhone first for several reasons:

a) the iphone has a head of steam - 3-5 times the number of apps on sale, many of which are very advanced and show what is possible

b) despite similar number of handsets being sold, iphone owners spend more on apps than android owners (source http://www.businessinsider.com/google-not-happy-with-number-of-android-app-purchases-2011-1 )

c) iphone apps have very strong and simple in-app purchasing and advertising methods, which android lacks (but that may change soon)

d) iphone apps have a single point of sale - in comparison, the Android Market is but one channel where you can buy Android apps (for example, Amazon are starting their own Android appstore soon). This means listing and marketing over several distribution channels

e) the popularity of iphone apps vs android apps means there is a much larger pool of iphone developers than Android developers, and so for producers like UKC there is more choice, and lower dev rates

f) iphone devs are pretty much guaranteed that their software will work on every phone (except in the case of high end graphics and video calling applications). There is a much wider range of Android handsets, many of which are running older versions of Android, so developing an 'advanced' app runs a greater risk. (This is probably the weakest point, but it's still valid).

Note that absolutely none of this has any bearing on the quality of the Android OS, or the relative merits of the different handsets. Android handsets are, technically, at least as good if not better than the iphone on several levels.

But you can't really argue against any of the points above; they're not opinions, they're facts. Simply put, for a company like UKC, who is testing the water with mobile Apps, it is an absolute no-brainer to develop first for the iPhone, and the possibly extend to Android (and it makes no sense at all to develop for Symbian or Windows). Once we see Android apps moving in the same volume as iphone apps, the situation may change. But I think that's still a while away yet.
In reply to Alun:

Thanks Alun. As I mentioned earlier, we have been inundated by interested iOS developers and not by Android developers, but someone has approached me now so we will certainly look into an Android version.

It would be great if those with the app could go to the App store and rate it, or give feedback. This will keep up our rating in the app store.

Alan

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.