UKC

Special Offer Course Dates Dates Available (7-11 March)! If you are intersted in becoming an outdoor instructor, but you know little about the industry and how to get started, this is the ideal chance for you to find out everything you need to know.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/news.php?id=3486

In reply to UKC Gear:

Hmmm, hard not to see this as slightly mercenary attempt to claw in some cash off desperate people. Can't imagine it will give you anything that you couldn't get by posting a few questions on here and asking about.

In reply to UKC Gear:

"Please note: you will need to bring your own mountain bike - in good working order."

I don't own a mountain bike and have absolutely no desire to own one of the wretched things. I'm obviously not cut out to be an "outdoor instructor" ;(

In reply to UKC Gear: What a bizzare course, come and spend a week and a load of dosh not gaining any qualification and learning what you can learn from google. Oh and at the end of it you'll know that outdoor industry work is poorly paid for back breaking hours but satisfying as long as you don't mind your hobbies and your jobs crossing over.......

Oh yes and we'll spend some time out doing activities so you forget what a complte waste of money this course was.....

You've got to admire the initiative.

In reply to UKC Gear:

Im not sure I quite follow what this advert is getting at. Im wanting to get into outdoor education but £350 would nearly cover an SPA so I will need more convincing. Has anyone been on any of these courses?

In reply to UKC Gear:

I don't get all the negativity on this thread, "£350 including 5 days instruction, meals, accommodation and equipment hire" sounds very reasonable to me.

Chris

In reply to UKC Gear and OPs: I think this will be very suitable for some people. The number of questions you see posted here and elsewhere (I receive a half dozen e-mails a year- and I'm just a 1 man band nobody- asking me how to become an instructor) says there is a demand. PYB have a broad range of staff, many of whom with extensive experience of freelancing and centre work at all levels and in voluntary, personal development and hard skills fields. IF you are coming to the field with a little cash behind you looking to get good information and answers and prepared to pay for it this could be a good 5 days. Note: just because someone spends the cash to get some 'quick' answers it doesn't mean that they'll be advised to take a 'quick' route into being an instructor. When managing centres I've often looked at how long people have taken to build their experience and I wouldn't confuse going on a course like this with expecting to gain qualifications and experience too quickly.

In reply to UKC Gear:

Why would you need to find out which sport you like when generally the reason people become instructors is to have a job in a sport they are obsessed with.

In reply to Chris Craggs:

because you could quite easily spend a day with a willing instructor on a one to one basis for nothing more than the fuel/train fare to get there

In reply to UKC Gear: I suspect PyB are strggling to get people to pay for their overpriced courses so are providing a pointless overpriced course to fill the gap.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

Rofl

In reply to Quarryboy: Because there is more to instructing, and progressing and making a living as an instructor than just loving climbing, or paddling. Also relatively few people can make a living out of just one activity and budding instructors may find it useful to learn about those they don't already do.

In reply to higherclimbingwales: Yes, I often let people come out and shadow to gain experience and this is valuable. But I also tell them to work alongside as many instructors as possible. 1 Instructor can talk about their way of doing things and their career path- an event like PYBs will let people gain experience of more than 1 person and way of doing things.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

Overpriced, only if you don't consider that other than the usual high standard of day activities you also get excellent spacious accommodation (with decent showers), a drying room that works, first class food, use facilities like bouldering wall or rolling pool (depending on your course), a bar, some good evening lectures, free car parking for duration or train station pick up.... I'm sure others could add more.

If you booked a freelancer for a week / weekend and then sought your accommodation that ticked all the boxes that the Brenin does I think it will cost you more, not to mention the hassle of travelling everyday.

In reply to summo: The point is your not getting any qualification at the end. Your learning something that any idiot can find out by researching on the internet and phoning/emailing any outdoors instructor. Your paying the price of getting an outdoors qualification to not get one.

In reply to tatty112:

I can only presume you have never been?

I suspect that learning the course structure etc is the least important thing you will pick up during the week. You will get excellent coaching on each sport during the days out, regardless of what level your at, you WILL come away with new tips or ways of doing something. Not to mention trying out different bits of kit. When I did a paddling course there long ago, everyone took their own boats, but you could also take out any of theirs for a day, just to try out something a bit different.

You will also meet lots of like minded people who are all potential climbing / biking / paddling partners. When I jumped through the qualification hoops there many years ago, I only paddled a bit, a guy on my MIA training course was progressing his climbing / MIA secondary to his Level5 paddling, thus a partnership was formed where we can both help develop each other skills.

Whilst getting the bits of paper is important, the skills, knowledge and experience of using them is what will really matter. The paper is the result of them, that helps you get paid for them.

In reply to AlH: It may be OK, but I think there is a slight issue with PyB advertising as 'news' which is a commercial event.

Could I advertise my running courses in the news section?

PyB do seem to get preferential treatment to run the rule a bit. They don't have a commercial profile either do they?

Personally it seems a money spinner, you'd bemuch better of doing ML(S) training and chatting to the instructors and other trainees for the week.

In reply to summo: Yeah £350 for a week is pretty good. There's also a market to 'reduce the pain' as one top guide called it. Identify where the pain is and remove it, so the pain is getting all the information, so they provide a course with it in. I think it will do OK, personally think there are better ways but there are a lot of time constrained people and essentially its a week activity holiday for £350...

In reply to Quarryboy: That's not true..I did my ML training with an outdoor ed college and people on that were doing their quals in a range of sports. To get work you'd normally need 2 or 3 activities. Some of them on our course had no experience in the hills. One lad couldn't pick out Snowdon on an OS map and you'd throught anyone going through ML from England or Wales would have knowledge of Snowdonia to pick out Snowdon.

In reply to IainRUK:

It seems to go something like this:

Plas y Brenin - Great guys, an institution, they are practically giving you the training out of the kindness of their souls and only require a small fee...

'Commercial' Instructors - Money grabbing barstewards, how dare they ask for money to provide a service?

In reply to shingsowa: No, not really

Plas y Brenin, Glenmore Lodge, Tollymore are national centres, where they not only provide the lower level courses, SPA/ML/ etc, they provide the higher ones that are for want of a better phrases only taught by those instructors who are most current with that syllabus. They might not be any better instructors, but what they are is very current and very good at teaching people how to teach others etc.. This applies to other sports, not just the mountain ones. In with the package you get food and accomm.


As well as providing lower level quals, they also provide instruction to a clients needs, that probably won't match any of the centres course programme. They could be target specific weakness in relation to a qualification or just being taken down some quality rivers or up some great rock. You might need to organise all your own accommodation and food, others will assist.

It's horses for courses, the individual has to work out his needs and do what best suits them. There are variables as national centres also provide courses just for experience or skills, but I see their most important function as principly developing future qualified instructors, not just the leadership quals.

In reply to summo:

There was sarcasm intended there, about the difference in perceptions held about the two areas...

In reply to shingsowa:

Ok fair enough, but I think they both represent fantastic value for money! Those who knock the system are rarely those who have been to any of the centres.

In reply to summo:

I'm rare. I did my SPA and ML at PyB and found that it was overpriced and I was underfed. As the standard required for ML training and SPA training is low I would echo the suggestion that the time is far better spent getting on of those qualifications.

In reply to billy no-mates:

Underfed? were you a bit too shy to go up for seconds, they don't mind once everyone has been through? Or no friends to hold your hand?

Overpriced? I'm not sure if it is still the case, but governing bodies quals were allegedly subsidised by money made from other courses there. If you think of a course, instructor ratio, their daytime and evening hours, free kit and facilities, food and accommodation at their standard I would be impressed if you could beat it privately? I may be wrong.


But, what if they want to get a feel of how hard it might be to reach instructor standard and the time frame involved for say 3 or 4 activities?
It depends on level of the candidate, I went straight to ML assessment, but paddling wise I was weak and did a few different skills courses over the years to sort it out!!

It's a crazy concept in this money driven world, but a multi activity week like this might also be great fun and the knowledge gained about the instructing side is the icing on the cake?

In reply to UKC Gear: Oh come on I can't believe people are seriously trying to defend charging £350 to do a load of stuff that you can do on t'internet for free or that you can contact any outdoor instructor and ask for advice about again for free.

In reply to UKC Gear:

i only see about 3 guys in that photo wearing nice bright jackets...i mean c'mon accessorise people and from a safety point of view let's actually be seen on the hill.....honestly what are these so called "teachers" doing?

In reply to summo:

I'm sure this course could be very useful to some and it doesn't sound expensive to me. I would like to hear the PyB view on the ethics of using Tryffan Bach as a mixed climbing training venue though

I'm not surprised that there is a course set up to meet a demand that, I believe, does exist. There are frequent requests on UKC asking about the ML(s) award & Single Pitch Award, as well as more general requests about the nature of being an instructor. The current economic difficulties have led to a number of people having retraining opportunities (and funding), a friend who delivers SPA courses has never been busier running courses to meet this demand.

The idea of a taster course with personalised coaching and an individualised learning/progression plan caters for those individuals who don't have the contacts in the industry or the confidence to approach instructors or UKC. As others have commented, add in the costs of accommodation and food for a week, then the experience of working with those who deliver these awards, and you have the premises of a course.