UKC

This is the ninth of the 2010/11 season of Scottish winter conditions updates from Dan Goodwin of MountainPlan.com.

"A sharp rise in temperatures and heavy rain in the west put many of the classics in Loch Linne. There have been avalanches and sluffs from cornices collapsing, old saturated windslab has slid off and loose blocks have tumbled down with it all... "

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=60606

In reply to UKC News: Important point about the excrement Dan! I've been surprised on a number of occasions when otherwise sound climbing partners have thought nothing of just "going behind a boulder", often people who you'd never see drop a wrapper. At the end of the day it isn't that they don't care about the environment or that they enjoy sh**ing in the snow (no one likes that!) it's just a case of having to go and not being near a toilet. The answer, obviously, is (a) to go before hand and (b) take a means of packing it out incase (a) doesn't go as planned.
Packing it out isn't as bad as it sounds and a couple of thick bin liners, some paper and hand gel in a stuff sack isn't much weight to carry for emergencies. The problem is that people get caught short without bags and it's too late to pack them when you're urgently prancing towards the bushes like John Wayne. Given the insane amount of time and planning that goes into winter climbing it isn't too much to think about to fling a few bags in the bottom of your sack "just in case"
Maybe I'm being naive but I reckon given the choice of leaving a sh*t lying about or packing it out the majority of climbers would pack it out provided they had the means to do so with them.

Ben

In reply to Sharp:

I completely agree! Another thing that would help in the Northern Corries is if the toilets at the skicentre would actually be open in the morning. The Glenmore village toilets were locked this season, so a no go area, then there is nothing at the ski centre, so with the best will in the world, there is nowhere to go really - which only leaves the bin bag option!!

In reply to UKC News: We found the same thing (human waste and bog roll) up alongside Tryfan this week too, if you can be bothered to take tissue you can be bothered to take a bag.

In reply to Sharp:
interesting point about bagging it.
however, is it not offset by using plastic bags?
In all, is the issue more to do with cosmetics? or sound ecological arguments?
I try to shit, beforehand if i can. most of the time that's the was it goes but occasionally i drop it behind a boulder because there's no other convincing alternatives.

i'd love someone that really knows to give me factual theories, not just hearsay...about bugs et al, and how it affects the area.
If fully convinced, i'll do my bit...just hope doesn't turn out like recycling. you do something and it all goes to the same place. call me cynical =)

In reply to French Erick:
the way... sorry typing with baby in hands...hence poor style and no capitals

In reply to French Erick:

There's an article in Scottish Mountaineer that counts the number of people using the Northern Corries. Shitting behind a boulder is fine in small quantities, as the environment can mitigate it, but when the numbers are large it becomes a physical and environmental mess. Special care should be taken to avoid shitting in honeypots as the cumulative waste can't be controlled by the environment.

In reply to French Erick: Hi I was in the ski area last
Week and there is a poo project in place its adverised in the entrance pf the toilets does anyone know more about this.

I would also like to say after reading this thread I have thought that I take my dog out and have jobby bags for him. When I gp out in the hilla in one of thoae that jobby behind a rock I think in future I'll take the jobby bag and the trowel that can be bpught. So I'm sorry if I've made a mess.

Finally do places like glenmore and other snow hole usera promote this poo project or do they leave the poo there. Some of the snow holes are in a pretty awful state. When I did my winter ml training it was a requirement to take out your crap also where do people pee around these snow holes if u want to brew up. I think though I might ve wrong that the training providers should encourage people to take out their crap in tubes like in the national parks in Usa.

I say let's get this poo project started! !!!!

In reply to stuart58: Glenmore Lodge and many other providers (both local and visiting) do promote the Poo Project.

In reply to French Erick: I take your point about plastic bags not being environmentally friendly but just a few things to consider.
You're carbon footprint doesn't mean a great deal when someone's kid comes over to them with your sh*t all over their hands. You're right, it's not just purely environmental reasons, but that doesn't mean we don't have to think about other hill users and their health and right to enjoy a clean environment. Maybe someone can come along and give us some facts on bugs and such like but it's a no brainer that it's best to avoid contact with rotting feaces and lets face it, if it's left around, someones gonna stick their hand in it at some point. Also if you sh*t in the snow then think what happens to that snow when summer comes and someone doesn't think before having a splash or a drink while walking up the path. The incidents mentioned in the conditions report are far too close to a water source and lets face it, people drink from streams in Scotland.
Bin liners are plastic like you say so not environmentally friendly but you can always choose biodegradable ones if it's really a concern (and not just an excuse!).
I have to say I don't see a couple of extra bin liners going in the bin being very significant in the grand scheme of things. When you think of the energy used treating water to use in our normal toilets or compared to the petrol we all use travelling to the hills then a couple of bags, for occasional emergency use, doesn't seem much. These things are much more environmentally damaging so if you're happy to do those then why not so with the bags.
and finally if anyone insists on going "behind a boulder" at the very least do it properly, away from water sources, dig down and burry it and burn your paper. (Another reason why everyone needs an adze!)

Ben

In reply to Sharp:

Which is worse - shitting in the boulders, or taking a dump at the start of the route or on one of the belays? As routinely practiced by one of the leading lights of Scottish winter climbing...

In reply to Toreador: I would not describe myself as one of the leading lights of Scottish winter climbing.

In all seriousness, I have had a few drinks from the burn coming from 'Sneachda, any idea how bad it is r.e bugs?