UKC

I've got a terrible fear of falling off (even if the gear is bomber and it's only 6 inches I'm falling!) which is really getting in the way of my climbing. If it is a move/sequence I can do statically and reverse back to my gear, I'm usually OK, but it is that commitment to a hard/scary move that is giving me problems.

One idea is to force myself to try a route with a safe, but almost guaranteed fall, that requires commitment to make the move. What do people think of The Tippler Direct at Stanage? I once saw a chap take a great many long falls into space off the crux move, but the gear looked fine.

Even if I don't get up the route (and I've never led E3 6a, although I did manage an E2 5c on Tuesday), just trying and falling would probably give my climbing a big boost.

Comments? beta?

Cheers

In reply to Nick Smith: I would just keep on beasting the E2 5cs. I guess the only way around it is to do it if ya know what I mean. I guess one way might be to go fix about a million freinds in a good break and take progressively bigger falls onto them?
Sure you'll get the hang of falling off in the end. Perhaps your way is best anyway. Get you strong climbing a route three times for the price of one!

In reply to Nick Smith:
What do people think of The Tippler Direct at Stanage?


Have fun, it's desperate!! If I wanted to go and fall off a route "safely" i'd choose it...

In reply to Futureboy:

never tried it, seen many fail but a mate of mine soloed it t'other week cos he didn't want to get pumped placing the gear apparently.

In reply to Futureboy:

Tippler is a 3 star classic and should not become a practice ground. Give it a go and fall off a few times by all means but dont go with the intention of falling to build confidnece as it wears the gear placements.

In reply to Futureboy: So who here has taken the fall? What are the chances of smashing your head against the flakes in the roof, or did you narrowly miss the ground and fly into your belayer?? grin

In reply to Nick Smith:

Which aspect of falling is it that you're afraid of? e.g. gear ripping, hitting stuff on the way down?

If it's the gear ripping, then I'd guess the best way is to learn to trust the gear, by taking controlled falls (e.g. using a secondary, slack top-rope). There was a recent thread where someone said they'd lost it after their first lead fall in 18 years, and I thought good advice was given there. I suggested that the only way to really test whether your gear placements are good is to actually fall on them, otherwise, although you think you've learnt to make good placements, without feedback from fall testing, you really don't know.

Note that I'm talking pretty hypothetically, being very much a novice, hence having recently considered the art of gear placement. If I ever get to E2 I'll be damned happy

In reply to Offwidth:

Yep. you're right. I only said that cos I would be 100% confident of falling off it again if I tried!

In reply to Nick Smith:

several times

What are the chances of smashing your head against the flakes in the roof,

zero

or did you narrowly miss the ground and fly into your belayer?? grin

almost hit him but wasn't concentrating. will try harder next time!

In reply to Offwidth:

Quite right too - I mean, that's nearly as bad as top roping

In reply to Nick Smith:

I've had quite a few attempts at Tippler Direct and taken quite a few lobs despite much effort trying not to fall off. The fall is fine onto bomber gear and you end up in space.
That said I think that Offwidth's comment about wearing out the placements is a good'un.

In reply to Nick Smith:

No chance at all Nick. Unless your belayer's on a motorbike!

In reply to Nick Smith: I've got very dodgy ankles and can't really take a ground fall, yet was happy to fall off this, no chance of hitting the flakes unless you've got a hyper keen belayer who take in loads of rope, dead safe and very reach dependant. (still haven't done it without falling)

In reply to Nick Smith:


Oops... I'll get me coat.

In reply to Nick Smith:

Nick, I wouldn't recommend the Tippler Direct - it's the sort of route that you may end up getting pumped putting the gear in and then just slump onto it after a half-hearted attempt at the desperate lock-off crux.

You want to take a proper winger right? I'd go for maximum fall out zone, so maybe something at Millstone like Coventry Street. 5b or 5c until a rest, perfect gear and then a 6a/b crux which should bring on the fall nicely

If you think about it, there aren't that many E3 routes on grit where you would take a clean fall onto bomber gear.

In reply to Nick Smith:

In the days of the preplaced tat my partner traversed out didnt like the look of it and tried to traverse back. He got his hands crossed halfway back and got stuck. After slowly pumping out he fell, swung right, caught his foot and span out into space further right. His head (no helmet) just missed the arete, still spinning on the way back. That was very scary to watch and needless to say he didnt have another go.

Flying Buttress is another route of this type that being sure you want to do it really helps and if not remember those good friends sometimes pop from the highly polished slot just under the lip.

In reply to captain paranoia:

To be honest I don't know - the fear seems quite irrational.

I do trust my gear, despite the fact I never fall. I trust my belayer. I've done practise 'jumps' above bolts indoors and out - it isn't the actual flying through the air that is the problem. I can rationally say that I will be 100% safe if I mess up a move, or get pumped and fall off, but I still get paralysed by fear and so don't even try...

In reply to Offwidth:


Don't even think about falling off this route intentionally. I know 2 people who have had very nasty accidents on it.

In reply to Nick Smith:


I can't think of (m)any better protected E3's on Stanage than this.
I led it a long time ago but only after several falls! As I recall the gear (bomber friends) is in the break by your feet. Reaching through with my right hand the problem I had was trying to keep my right knee out of the way to pull through the roof and reach the break...very awkward. I lunged in the end. I'm just under six foot.
Hope this is useful.
Doug

In reply to Nick Smith:

I know hwta you mean but if you go on a bolt clipping holiday o some steep limetstone, you get used to just clipping gear and then going for it (too steep to hang around worrying). I find that this dooes translate well to trad climbing.

In reply to Nick Smith:

Nick,

I can recommend this website and it's associated book.

http://www.warriorsway.com/

Mick

In reply to Mick - Rockfax USA:

The book isn't out yet but I have an uncorrected proof...whilst there's some stuff that you cynical Brits might laugh at there is some gems of advice in it.

Mick

In reply to Craig_M: how were they hurt? head-slab interface?

In reply to Nick Smith:

No it's not!
Maybe a course of bridge swinging or bungy would be theraputic?

In reply to Nick Smith:

Hmmm...

I started on wall and sport routes, and learned that falling isn't a problem (it helps that I'm crap, and therefore fall a lot). So I guess that, unconsciously, I'm happy to fall. I tend to (unrealistically) expect gear I've placed to behave as well. That's why I've been thinking about how to make sure that is it as good as I can make it. I don't like falling, though, as it's a failure.

I'll stop wittering and leave it to more experienced hands.

In reply to Nick Smith:

You could do The Rasp then go for the direct finish

In reply to John Gillott:

Funny you should mention that... I seconded The Rasp a couple of years ago and loved it. I'm building up my stamina in the hope of trying The Rasp later this year. Don't know about the direct finish though!

Cheers

In reply to Nick Smith: There is a weak person's way to do the crux (of Tippler Direct) that avoids the desperate lockoff. Still got to do the crux of Tippler, mind

In reply to Offwidth:

I agree. Why not do some jump practice at a climbing wall. Make sure:
- you're on an overhanging route
- you're nice and high in case the top bolt breaks
- no-one is near you
- you've got a good belayer
- a nice thick newish rope
- and... you've tied on properly!

Start by pushing off when just by your top bolt, next time a foot above, etc.

Good luck!

In reply to Nick Smith:

Any more parameters you want to know? People can't reliably give you info on chances.