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Verbal Job Offer

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m0unt41n 07 Mar 2011
Friend offered a job after an Interview with a University. Told by Chairman of Interview panel they were best candidate etc offered the job which my friend accepted (all verbally). Two days later Chairman sheepishly says HR screwed it up, didnt advertise that vacancy applied to the redeployment scheme. Next day one of the other candidates, which the Chairman says they would not want, applies and HR says should get the job.

I always thought a verbal offer and acceptance was aas good as a written one and by accepting there is a contract of employment. Or is this not the case? My friend needs to decide tomorrow whether or not to say they will strongly complain if offer withdrawn. They work for the University now so have to be a bit careful.

Thanks


 sleavesley 07 Mar 2011
In reply to m0unt41n: Contacting ACAS would be the best bet. They would be able to give the right information to your friend on the action they can take if they want to go to Employment Tribunal on the grounds of discrimination.
It is not clear cut as job offers can be subject to various conditions and this is often confirmed with an offer in writing along with T&C's of employment.
 andy 07 Mar 2011
In reply to m0unt41n: I've always been advised never to resign until I have a written contract in my sweaty hand, let alone rely on a verbal offer, so I doubt your friend's in a very strong position. If he/she had resigned on the strength of it then I suppose they might have a claim for something but I suspect as they told him/her within 24 hours that wouldn't apply.
m0unt41n 07 Mar 2011
In reply to andy: She didnt resign, was waiting fir offer in writing. Just wanted to know now how binding a verbal offer was and therefore how much of a fuss, or not, to make. Bearing in mind she still works for the Uni.
 marie 07 Mar 2011
In reply to m0unt41n: TBH, she shouldn't waste her time on it. Sure, it's a rum deal, but there was no contract, no terms of employment, no start date, no commitment.

Let it be a lesson to await for confirmation in writing of any offer!
 EddInaBox 07 Mar 2011
In reply to marie:
> ...there was no contract, no terms of employment, no start date, no commitment.

Just because a contract isn't in writing doesn't mean there is no contract.
 marie 07 Mar 2011
In reply to EddInaBox: Im fully aware of that.
 EddInaBox 07 Mar 2011
In reply to marie:

Yet you state quite categorically ‘there was no contract’, what makes you so sure?
 marie 07 Mar 2011
In reply to EddInaBox: There are no conditions or agreed terms of employment.
 marie 07 Mar 2011
In reply to marie: And employment has not commenced
 EddInaBox 08 Mar 2011
In reply to marie:

My layperson's understanding of contracts is that if all terms are agreed and the level of remuneration is agreed then a contract (verbal or otherwise) is valid, if the details of the job are available to the applicant, i.e. stated in any advert or if a job description was sent to the applicant, then that satisfies the conditions for a contract to exist.
 Mooncat 08 Mar 2011
In reply to m0unt41n:

Clear breach of contract, if it was taken to a civil court or employment tribunal your mate would probably win.
 marie 08 Mar 2011
In reply to EddInaBox: That refers to once the post has commenced. No work has been done, there have been no loss of earnings and if the applicant is still employed elsewhere is still under contract to someone else.

There is nothing*, that I could find, that relates to a breach in employment law on the withdrawal of a verbal offer soon after interview.

* with exception for on discriminationary grounds.
 marie 08 Mar 2011
In reply to Mooncat: Win what?

Employment tribunals are mostly for employees who have served a min of 12 months and have been unfairly treated or dismissed. Payouts are based on a percentage of their lost salary.

m0unt41n 08 Mar 2011
In reply to EddInaBox: My feeling was that there is a contract, makes no difference whether its in writing or verbal. Terms and conditions are already agreed since the job offer includes a job description with full employment terms etc. All that is needed is an offer and an acceptance.

However I also agree that there is no apparent loss. She has not resigned.

But it cant be possible for HR to just say oops we cocked that up so we are withdrawing the offer since now they have to get agreement from both sides surely.

Doesnt change final outcome of course.
 blurty 08 Mar 2011
In reply to m0unt41n:

A acquaintance of mine was in similar straits. He pursued the matter with a solicitor's help. The company gave him 3 month's salary in lieu of notice (that being the prospective terms of employment).

That was a private sector company though, that sort of flexibility wouldn't be possible in the Public sector?
 Trangia 08 Mar 2011
In reply to m0unt41n:

The key elements of a contract are offer, acceptance and consideration. All contracts are verbal. Oral contracts are binding if they fulfill these requirements but consideration should be given to any special conditions made at the time of the contract
 artif 08 Mar 2011
In reply to m0unt41n:
That's life, take it on the chin and move on. If they take it further it's unlikely they will get any further offers. If the person feels that bad about it, get another job elsewhere.
 dustbuddy 08 Mar 2011
In reply to Trangia: A contract requires certainty of terms. I think that much will depend on how specific the offer was - i.e. did include detail of salary/pension/bonus etc. If it didn't, I don't see how a court could enforce it.

That said, if I was your friend, I would run a mile from an organisation which could allow this sort of thing to happen.
 gcandlin 08 Mar 2011
In reply to m0unt41n: The odd thing here is that the chairman is allowing himself to be put in a position by his HR manager of employing somebody in a role he doesnt want in that role. That is a very weak show.

If the job should have been offered to the redeployment pool first then al he would need to do would be to interview the redeployees find them unsuitable (assuming that it what he thought) and then re interview your friend and give her the job. Happens all the time.

The only explanation is that the Chairman has other pressures (ie he has not money lefty for redundancy etc) so is forced to take what they see as the lesser candidate.

Your friend was clearly rated at interview so my advice to them would be not to kick up a fuss and play the long game, other roles will come up and if they show a good attitude about this then they will still be in the running. If they kick off royally no manager will want to touch them.
 EddInaBox 08 Mar 2011
In reply to marie:

> That refers to once the post has commenced....
  That's not what it says, it says ‘A contract of employment comes into existence as soon as someone accepts your job offer.’

> There is nothing*, that I could find, that relates to a breach in employment law on the withdrawal of a verbal offer soon after interview.
  You are probably right that an offer can be withdrawn if it hasn't been accepted, but once the offer has been accepted then surely it would be a breach of contract law (not employment law.)

> Win what?
> Employment tribunals are mostly for employees who have served a min of 12 months and have been unfairly treated or dismissed. Payouts are based on a percentage of their lost salary.
  A claim for breach of contract can be brought through the civil court, rather than an employment tribunal.
 marie 08 Mar 2011
In reply to EddInaBox:

Do you have any examples of similar cases actually getting to court? I really would like to read up on how they were dealt with and under what circumstances/clauses in law and what the final outcomes were.

Im sure the courts are going to be heaving with claims... particularly from employers who have been let down by 'employees' who back out before their start date...
Mac1982 08 Mar 2011
In reply to m0unt41n: Marie is right. I work in recruitment and deal witht his kind of thing week in week out. Unless there's a signed contract, the verbal offer isn't binding. If they were to sign a contract, then pull the offer - they would have to pay the person the notice as detailed in the contract.

 SFM 08 Mar 2011
In reply to Mac1982:

so in short....verbal contract - not worth the paper it's written on?
 John_Hat 08 Mar 2011
In reply to m0unt41n:

I would suggest that your friend write a letter on the lines of

"Dear Chairman,

I am very sorry not to be starting the new job with you shortly, I was really looking forward to it and looking forward to working with you.

I totally understand that you're in a difficult position and that matters have not worked out exactly how you would have wished either, but mistakes do happen despite people's best intentions. I would, though, be most grateful if you could let me know if a similar role becomes available as, assuming that my circumstances have not changed, I would be very interested in applying."

Yours, etc."

Reasons for the above.

1) As you say, friend works for the university. Never, Ever, sh*t in your own bed unless you are not intending to use it again.

2) Your friend then comes across as a nice person. This will be rememered. It is much better to be remembered as a "nice person who could have caused trouble and didn't" rather than that "pain in the neck who caused us months of irritation".

3) The Chairman will like your friend. Friends who are also chairmen of interview panals are useful.

3) Their chances of actually getting anything out of complaining apart from a vast amount of hassle and ruination of future employment prospects within the university are low. The best they are likely to get is a months salary in lieu of notice, which in the context of a lifetime's work is less than peanuts.



 Ian McNeill 08 Mar 2011
In reply to Mooncat:
> (In reply to m0unt41n)
>
> Clear breach of contract, if it was taken to a civil court or employment tribunal your mate would probably win.

here hear

I had an email reply ' attached contract as discussed ' that and the contents of said contract, agreement, document help win in a case of breach of contract.

and these two supporting statements helped to supplement the 'attached contract as discussed ' statement in an email.

Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development website
A contract of employment defined by Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development

An offer of employment by the employer - which should be clear and unambiguous and may be conditional
Acceptance of that offer by the employee
Consideration between the parties - the work done by the employee in return for the wages paid by the employer.

http://www.cipd.co.uk/subjects/emplaw/tacofemp/contracts.htm

and

Is it breach of contract to withdraw a job offer, or to turn it down, after it has been accepted?

Yes. The contract is made as soon as you accept the offer, and both sides are bound by the terms until the contract is terminated.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/EmploymentContractsAndCond...



m0unt41n 08 Mar 2011
In reply to EddInaBox:
> (In reply to marie)
>
> My Google-Fu turns up this:
> http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1075433493&ty...

Its still running - my friend quoted from the above and its left at present for the Chairman to get HR to sort it out on the basis that they should honour the offer morally and the other candidate who is eligible for redeployment was unsuccessful at interview.

But she is playing it fairly gently since as noted by others she needs to look at the long game but also she has to work there.

Thanks for everyones comments, they have all been very helpful as I summerise and copy them to her.
 EddInaBox 08 Mar 2011
In reply to marie:

> Do you have any examples of similar cases actually getting to court?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/english/2565891.stm
 marie 08 Mar 2011
In reply to EddInaBox: That is one case and the chap was left hanging in the balance for 3 months... not a day or so...

The high profile nature of the case probably helped too.
 EddInaBox 08 Mar 2011
In reply to Mac1982:

> Marie is right. I work in recruitment and deal witht his kind of thing week in week out. Unless there's a signed contract, the verbal offer isn't binding.

You appear to be wrong, can you back up your assertion with any evidence? If a verbal offer is accepted and the general conditions required for a contract to be valid are satisfied then a verbal contract is no less binding than a written contract, proving a verbal contract has been entered into might be difficult though.
 EddInaBox 08 Mar 2011
In reply to marie:

The length of time may have had a bearing on the magnitude of the damages awarded but not the legal basis on which the case was decided.
 marie 08 Mar 2011
In reply to EddInaBox:

If I was offered a job, and then a day or so later it was withdrawn, and I'd not handed my notice in or anything else like that, then I'd be pissed off, yes, but would see it as one of those things.

If I was offered a job, kept hanging on for 3 months, and then it was withdrawn, I'd be mightly upset and baying for blood.

Do you honestly think that to take this to a civil court will *really* benefit anyone?

It was a mistake on the part of the Chairman/HR... pure and simple - we all make them. But that doesn't mean there is a claim.
 EddInaBox 08 Mar 2011
In reply to marie:

> If I was offered a job, and then a day or so later it was withdrawn, and I'd not handed my notice in or anything else like that, then I'd be pissed off, yes, but would see it as one of those things.
And you are perfectly entitled to take that position, however what you would do has no bearing on the original poster's question as to the validity of a verbal contract.

> Do you honestly think that to take this to a civil court will *really* benefit anyone?
It doesn't matter what I think, I endeavoured to answer the OP's question and back up my answer with evidence from external sources in order to allow him to judge the veracity of my answer compared to the answers of other posters who give no basis for their advice.

> It was a mistake on the part of the Chairman/HR... pure and simple - we all make them. But that doesn't mean there is a claim.
It doesn't mean there aren't grounds for a claim either!
 marie 08 Mar 2011
In reply to EddInaBox: The reason for throwing personal opinion in is I am trying to reply as both an employer and employee.

I also believe that I have given valuable information, based upon experience and communication with ACAS and being able to prove certain elements of a verbal contract and expectations.

At the end of the day, what is to say that the employer says, sod it, right, contract them, employ them for a day and release them. The employee has then lost their previous job and their new one with little more than their notice and no comeback.

punk_matt 08 Mar 2011
In reply to marie: I imagine employment law is there to say the employer can't do that.
 marie 08 Mar 2011
In reply to punk_matt: It seems many think employment law is there for the protection of employees only!
punk_matt 08 Mar 2011
In reply to marie: The opposite could be said of some other posters, I would say that offering someone a job you are in no position to offer is not just one of those things.
 marie 08 Mar 2011
In reply to punk_matt: Have you ever made a mistake?

m0unt41n 08 Mar 2011
In reply to m0unt41n: Apparently they have just confirmed the offer of the job to my friend, she is though still going to wait until its in writting etc before giving her notice in.

I guess she managed to be firm about her rights but polite. Which I suspect was a good thing since if they thought about it they would want her to be that in the position they offered.

Anyhow many thanks for the collective advice of UKC.
punk_matt 08 Mar 2011
In reply to marie: Of course, and I am accountable for them.

I think you are taking this slightly personally and have made a bit of a silly statement there, did you expect me to say no?
 John_Hat 08 Mar 2011
In reply to marie & Ed:

Funnily enough I agree with you both.

Ed appears to be confining himself to answering the narrow, legal position, and whilst I do not have the experience to judge, his opinions are backed up by a variety of internet advice from sound sources.

However, Marie appears to be answering from an entirely practical viewpoint - "what would occur if?"...

In terms of the OP, the OP appears to be asking what to do. My opinion, for what its worth, is that whilst the friend of the OP has a legal case (agreeing with Ed) they would be nuts to actually try and use employment law in this case and the result of using employment law would be wholly negative to the friend (agreeing with Marie).


 marie 08 Mar 2011
In reply to punk_matt: No I didn't and I don't think it is a silly statement at all.

The point is, a mistake was made, simples. Why make a claim out of a mistake?

Anyway, it seems that the company have reversed their decision and will now employ the OPs friend. I just hope it is all she expects it to be!!
Mac1982 08 Mar 2011
In reply to EddInaBox: A 'verbal offer' is very different to a contract of employment. Thats why no-one (in their right mind) resigns without having a written contract of employment - as everyone knows that until you have that contract in your hand - you don't have any rights if the employer change their mind - or they go out of business etc.

My assertion is years of experience of this...and no - I couldn't provide you with evidence (from my experience), as that would land me in trouble.... I could VERBALLY tell you though...as you would then have no evidence of me doing so...starting to get it?
Mac1982 08 Mar 2011
In reply to m0unt41n: ps - to answer the original question... I would advise your friend to flag her frustration, but not to push it. Its not wise to get on the wrong side of HR.

Oh - and think its totally unfair - have experienced it alot, and its normally stakeholders in a position who don't have something signed off or haven't checked with HR first before offering the job.
 EddInaBox 08 Mar 2011
In reply to marie:

> I also believe that I have given valuable information, based upon experience and communication with ACAS and being able to prove certain elements of a verbal contract and expectations.
The thing I take issue with is when people state something to be a fact and they are wrong, on this thread you stated ‘there was no contract’ which given the information available at the time you said it was not a valid conclusion and, I maintain, entirely wrong.

> At the end of the day, what is to say that the employer says, sod it, right, contract them, employ them for a day and release them. The employee has then lost their previous job and their new one with little more than their notice and no comeback.
Usually nothing, but in this case since the OP's friend already works for the organisation then there is a good chance such behaviour would give rise to a claim for unfair dismissal, as long as the period of continuous employment is long enough to bring such a claim.
 EddInaBox 08 Mar 2011
In reply to Mac1982:

> A 'verbal offer' is very different to a contract of employment.
Yes, but a verbal offer is not the same as a verbal contract, and that was the basis of the OP's question.

> everyone knows that until you have that contract in your hand - you don't have any rights if the employer change their mind
That is simply not true, a verbal contract is still a contract, you have the same rights but it will be much harder to prove the contract was entered into if you wish to go to court.

> My assertion is years of experience of this...and no - I couldn't provide you with evidence (from my experience), as that would land me in trouble.... I could VERBALLY tell you though...as you would then have no evidence of me doing so...starting to get it?
No, I don't get it at all, experience doesn't automatically make you right, since this is your job I suggest you need to find out from an unimpeachable authority who you will listen to (i.e. not me) what the law really is.
 EddInaBox 08 Mar 2011
In reply to Mac1982:

> A 'verbal offer' is very different to a contract of employment.
Yes, but a verbal offer is not the same as a verbal contract, and that was what the OP's question was about.

> everyone knows that until you have that contract in your hand - you don't have any rights if the employer change their mind
That is simply not true, a verbal contract is still a contract, you have the same rights but it will be much harder to prove the contract was entered into if you wish to go to court.

> My assertion is years of experience of this...and no - I couldn't provide you with evidence (from my experience), as that would land me in trouble.... I could VERBALLY tell you though...as you would then have no evidence of me doing so...starting to get it?
No, I don't get it at all, experience doesn't automatically make you right, since this is your job I suggest you need to find out from an unimpeachable authority who you will listen to (i.e. not me) what the law really is.
m0unt41n 08 Mar 2011
In reply to m0unt41n: I think the complexity with this is that my friend needed to object to being told that the offer was being withdrawn without being objectionable BUT also demonstrating that she would stand up for her rights. Because if she didnt then would she stand up for the rights of the Uni (her employer) when involved with negotiations on their behalf, her new job.

But she knew, as we all did, that it would be pointless, in fact counter productive, to threaten any type of legal action.

A matter of trying to get the right balance which seems to have worked.

The HR department has done similar cock ups before, but we all make mistakes. The issue was getting them to accept it and not hoping to cover it up by expecting the offer to be withdrawn.
 marie 08 Mar 2011
In reply to EddInaBox:

Complete Verbal Agreements
In order for a verbal agreement to be legally binding the agreement must have reached completeness. This means that all terms and conditions have been reached and agreed regarding services and terms of pay. Agreements will be incomplete when there are still further terms and conditions to be agreed. Agreements in principle will not usually be upheld in court and will not usually be considered complete verbal agreements.

I still do not think there was an employment contract.
m0unt41n 08 Mar 2011
In reply to marie:
> (In reply to EddInaBox)
>
> Complete Verbal Agreements
> In order for a verbal agreement to be legally binding the agreement must have reached completeness. This means that all terms and conditions have been reached and agreed regarding services and terms of pay.

I havent seen the paperwork on this but I understand that there was a complete package of job description, standard employment conditions and terms, salary, leave, grading etc. As you would expect from something like a Uni it is all clearly laid out, not negotiable, the purpose of the interview if for them to check on the candidates and for candidates to check any query about the work itself.

So any offer would then be on the basis of full and complete terms. Nothing else to negotiate and start date / needing to give one month notice/ discussed.

OK its theoretical now but would there not be a contract based upon the above?

I agree it would be foolish to pursue it but none the less it sounds to me as if there is a binding contract of employment.



Sarah G 08 Mar 2011
In reply to m0unt41n:
At my workplace, a job was offered to a chap, depending on health screening. The job was portering. On health screening the chap was found to have chronic angina and a bad back, and the job offer was withdrawn on the basis that the job was not suitable for the person.

The chap sued my workplace, very very promptly.

The workplace had to demonstrate that in this case, reasonable adjustments would not be enough to allow the chap to function in the job role without detriment to other colleagues. The case went to court. The day before the case heard, the chap and his legal people rolled over.

Now, the case above has some similar echoes to the OP's, in that a job offer was made (this time in wriiting!) but then withdrawn. However, it was withdrawn because the job was offered subject to a health screening, at which it was found the job was not suited to the chap due to his chronic health conditions. I think the right outcome was gained in the end.


As has been said, employment law works both ways.

Sx
 marie 08 Mar 2011
In reply to m0unt41n:

I think I alluded to that earlier in the thread, but did not commit due to lack of this additional information.

But yes, still not really in the interests of your friend or anyone else in this situation (unless you are that rugby player in Ed's link!)
 EddInaBox 08 Mar 2011
In reply to marie:

> In order for a verbal agreement to be legally binding the agreement must have reached completeness. This means that all terms and conditions have been reached and agreed...
> I still do not think there was an employment contract.

Given m0unt41n's post here:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=449668#x6294684
I think there probably was.

And this post adds more credence to that view:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=449668#x6295554
 marie 08 Mar 2011
In reply to EddInaBox: Err the second link is directed at me to which I responded. Do keep up...

The first one missed due to skim reading admittedly, but even then there are a couple of things missing
 EddInaBox 08 Mar 2011
In reply to marie:
> Err the second link is directed at me to which I responded.
I was aware of that.

> The first one missed due to skim reading admittedly, but even then there are a couple of things missing
That pretty much makes my point, if the information supplied is incomplete it is seldom possible to give a categorical answer.
 Trangia 09 Mar 2011
In reply to m0unt41n:

Why do people keep talking about "verbal agreements" when they mean oral? All agreements are verbal
Mac1982 09 Mar 2011
In reply to EddInaBox:

> A 'verbal offer' is very different to a contract of employment.
Yes, but a verbal offer is not the same as a verbal contract, and that was the basis of the OP's question

A 'verbal contract' wasn't mentioned once in the question - there was only a verbal offer.

> everyone knows that until you have that contract in your hand - you don't have any rights if the employer change their mind
That is simply not true, a verbal contract is still a contract, you have the same rights but it will be much harder to prove the contract was entered into if you wish to go to court

For the second time - she wasn't given a 'verbal contract' she was given a verbal offer. You'd get laughed out of court if you tried to contest it! all the employer would need to say is "no - we didn't offer her the role" end of.

> My assertion is years of experience of this...and no - I couldn't provide you with evidence (from my experience), as that would land me in trouble.... I could VERBALLY tell you though...as you would then have no evidence of me doing so...starting to get it?
No, I don't get it at all, experience doesn't automatically make you right, since this is your job I suggest you need to find out from an unimpeachable authority who you will listen to (i.e. not me) what the law really is.

My job isn't to decide if verbal offers or written ones are binding - I'm just not stupid enough to think a verbal offer is a definite one. So I suggest you don't tell me how to do my job.

I 'suggest' you stop thinking you're some kind of expert on this when you have no experience whatsoever in the matter. I was offering some advice to the person as I DO have experience in the matter...and I'm sure they'd prefer a 'real-life' answer...not some irrelevant examples from google.


punk_matt 09 Mar 2011
In reply to Mac1982: Offer plus acceptance equals contract.
 Cú Chullain 09 Mar 2011
In reply to marie:
> (In reply to EddInaBox)
>
> Complete Verbal Agreements
> In order for a verbal agreement to be legally binding the agreement must have reached completeness. This means that all terms and conditions have been reached and agreed regarding services and terms of pay. Agreements will be incomplete when there are still further terms and conditions to be agreed. Agreements in principle will not usually be upheld in court and will not usually be considered complete verbal agreements.
>
> I still do not think there was an employment contract.


Tend to agree with you.

Anyway, its not what you know its what you can prove, and in the case of OP it seems very little. Shoddy behaviour by the organisation but it would pretty futile to try and get any legal recourse on the issue. Put it down to experience and move on.
 off-duty 09 Mar 2011
In reply to Mac1982:

For the second time - she wasn't given a 'verbal contract' she was given a verbal offer. You'd get laughed out of court if you tried to contest it! all the employer would need to say is "no - we didn't offer her the role" end of.


It's not really in my area of expertise but the very fact that you suggest the employer would have to lie in court to get the case dismissed would indicate that in fact it was a good case.
 Cú Chullain 09 Mar 2011
In reply to off-duty:
> (In reply to Mac1982)
>
> For the second time - she wasn't given a 'verbal contract' she was given a verbal offer. You'd get laughed out of court if you tried to contest it! all the employer would need to say is "no - we didn't offer her the role" end of.
>
>
> It's not really in my area of expertise but the very fact that you suggest the employer would have to lie in court to get the case dismissed would indicate that in fact it was a good case.

No, it is not a good case!
 EddInaBox 09 Mar 2011
In reply to Mac1982:
> (In reply to EddInaBox)

> A 'verbal contract' wasn't mentioned once in the question - there was only a verbal offer.
First two sentences of the O.P. ‘Friend offered a job after an Interview with a University. Told by Chairman of Interview panel they were best candidate etc offered the job which my friend accepted (all verbally)’ that is clearly an an offer and acceptance, we also know from subsequent posts that the terms of employment were known, those are the conditions for a contract to be valid, it's the very definition of a contract.

> For the second time - she wasn't given a 'verbal contract' she was given a verbal offer.
Which she accepted, offer + acceptance = contract !

> You'd get laughed out of court if you tried to contest it! all the employer would need to say is "no - we didn't offer her the role" end of.
That would depend on the evidence given by both sides, it would be a civil case and thus decided on the balance of probability, not reasonable doubt, I don't think anyone would be laughing about it though.

> My job isn't to decide if verbal offers or written ones are binding - I'm just not stupid enough to think a verbal offer is a definite one. So I suggest you don't tell me how to do my job.
You said ‘I work in recruitment and deal witht his kind of thing week in week out’ are you now saying dealing with this sort of thing isn't part of your job?

> I 'suggest' you stop thinking you're some kind of expert on this when you have no experience whatsoever in the matter.
I made it clear I have no legal training, I presented a link for the O.P. so that he could decide for himself if my interpretation had any validity. With your experience in such matters surely you can provide me with a link to a case study or the relevant act of parliament to help me understand why I'm wrong?

> I was offering some advice to the person as I DO have experience in the matter...and I'm sure they'd prefer a 'real-life' answer...not some irrelevant examples from google.
I tend to think the O.P. wanted the correct answer, I gave an answer which I backed up with evidence, you seem to want people to believe your answer on the grounds that you know you are right, how do we know you are right if all we have is your claim that you are with no explanation?
In reply to m0unt41n: A verbal agreement is not worth the paper its written on. I beleive historically there was such a thing as a gentleman's agreement but I think these no longer exist due to the fact that there is nothing other than the verbal agreement to prove there ever was an agreement!

ACAS would be my first port of call but highly unlikely that there is anything they can do.

Bad form from the University.
Mac1982 09 Mar 2011
In reply to punk_matt: No it doesn't!!! offer + acceptance is not a contract!! a contract is a document which outlines the t's & c's of employment and what the duities of the role etc will be.

I would advise that if you're ever in a position like this - that you get this document before quitting your job...because if this happens (whats happened to the person in question)...then you won't have a leg to stand on. Trust me!
 EddInaBox 09 Mar 2011
In reply to Mac1982:

> No it doesn't!!! offer + acceptance is not a contract!!
Yes it is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_contract_law#Formation
"The general rule is that contracts require no prescribed form, such as being in writing, except where statute requires it, usually for large deals like the sale of land."

> a contract is a document which outlines the t's & c's of employment and what the duities of the role etc will be.
No, that is a job description. I think what you are getting at there is the written statement of your main employment terms which you are entitled to within two months of starting work.

In reply to Mac1982: You're incorrect. A contract is a legally enforceable agreement between two (or more) parties. The terms and conditions will set out what is expected of each party in the agreement.
Mac1982 09 Mar 2011
In reply to EddInaBox:

a contract is a document which outlines the t's & c's of employment and what the duities of the role etc will be.
No, that is a job description. I think what you are getting at there is the written statement of your main employment terms which you are entitled to within two months of starting work.

Sorry mate - thats B*llocks.

Carry on with the endless google searches...you might even get paid for it one day!
 EddInaBox 09 Mar 2011
In reply to Mac1982:

> Carry on with the endless google searches...

As long as you carry on being wrong, I will carry on proving it.
 trouserburp 09 Mar 2011
In reply to EddInaBox:

Given that the would-be manager is the kind of person to offer someone a job and then withdraw it. They're not going to be the type to admit to doing so in a court of law

This is why a written contract is a good idea
 EddInaBox 10 Mar 2011
In reply to trouserburp:

Given that it was reported thirty posts ago that the job offer had been reinstated we will probably never know what the chairman of the interview panel would or would not admit to in court.

A written contract is a very good idea, I wholeheartedly concur.
 Mooncat 10 Mar 2011
In reply to Mac1982:

You may keep on professing to be the expert on this but you're so wrong on what forms a contract. I'm guessing you haven't dealt with many ET's with success.

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