UKC

Just seen that the 2011 OMM location has been announced - Scotland - and entries are now open.
But entry fees are £110 per team this year, that's £15 more than last year, any ideas why it has gone up so much? For comparison this years LAMM is £86 per team and the Saunders £76.
At the end of the day £7.50 extra per person isn't going to break the bank but the cynic in me says it is something to do with the event organisation changing this year...
Cheers,
Al

In reply to gimmer:
I noticed that, too - guess they realised they could make a bit more profit which seems fair enough.

In reply to gimmer:

Another case of milking a winning formula. Similar I guess to Glastonbury.

I shall vote with my feet and enter lesser known events.

In reply to gimmer:
I imagine that the costs involved in having a distant event centre (more expensive facilities, transport, etc) are quite high; these were more-or-less forced on the organisers after the 2008 event.
The event organisation actually changed last year.

In reply to gimmer:

It's still good value to be honest. £55 for a two day race compared to some events where it costs that for 3 hours.

What do you get for £55?

Specially printed map x 2
Dibber hire
Campsite fees x 2
Fresh water and toilets at the overnight camp
Transport (last year I got an hour in a coach)
Excellent courses
Marshalls at each checkpoint
Prizes
An amazing weekend



Food at the end

In reply to Eric the Red: I suppose the point isn't "do you get your money's worth" but "why are other events so much less"? Is it profit, less volunteers and more paid staff, efficiency?

In reply to ceri:

The SLMM is only £72 per team and I find it just as well managed/supported as the OMM. A saving of £38, or one third cheaper!

In reply to Tony the Blade:
The SLMM starts and finishes at the event centre, there are no buses to hire. The event centre is normally a farmer's field, so costs less to hire.
There is no attempt at live results service, satellite tracking, and the like.

In reply to Tony the Blade:

It's a shame more people don't support the smaller events - last year's 2 day Phoenix event was cancelled due to a lack of entries.

That event had been running for years, it's a crying shame it's now dead and gone.

In reply to Toreador:

If these things are important to you, and you feel they are worth £38 more, then you're obviously happy paying the extra. To me they're not so I don't.

(actually I don't like the bus-ride, I'd much prefer to have the start/finish near the event centre)

In reply to Toreador:

I just re-read my previous post and it sounded very blunt, almost like I was having a dig at you, I didn't mean it to be so.

In reply to Tony the Blade:

I won't enter a race if it's too much. I didn't bother with the Berlin marathon this year because it was 100 Euros.

I think the Saunders is very good value for money and the OMM is good value for money. I'll probably do both this year.

If OMM up it to £200 I'll probably think twice.

In reply to Tony the Blade:

They're not at all, and I prefer the smaller events, I was just guessing at a reason for the price hike.

Unfortunately some of the changes were effectively forced on the organisers after the (metaphorical) inquests into the 2008 event.

In reply to Mither Tap:

The Phoenix had always been in August, it was moved last year due to access considerations, and as a result many of the regulars couldn't make it.

Is it really permanently gone? They'd only just got new sponsors (Montane).

In reply to Toreador:

There was a thread on Nopesport about it, apparently one of the key figures in the organisation of the Phoenix has now taken a full time job with the Scottish Orienteering Association.
He said that unless someone else took the organisation on, it wouldn't run.

A bit sad, I only went once, and absolutley loved it.

In reply to Mither Tap:

I never made it, as it always coincided with my holidays. Ironically last year was the first time I'd have been able to go!

In reply to gimmer:

I don't do Mountain Marathons so I won't comment on the specifics, but there does seem to be a trend of an increasing number of commercially organized running events that charge pretty high entrance fees. I guess in large part these events attract people whose main experience of events are things like the Great Manchester Run etc, £30+ for a 10k. I wonder if they realize that they can do a fell race for about £3.

On the flip side, the same people are probably attracted to park run, which is free.

In reply to gimmer:

I liked it best when you got a paper map, Wilf's had a little kiosk, you could buy all the tat you had left at home on the kitchen table from the Pete Bland stall, or at least before most of it blew away.

Plus back then you got your co-ordinates on a seperate bit of water loving paper and there were no big red "follow me" donkey lines on the map.

I also liked the fact you finished day one and shit in a trench, while waving at your female companion in a poorly shelded trench adjacent shitting likewise.

Now it is beer tent, no Pete Bland and feels a bit like a triathlon.

Haven't bothered for a coupel of years and prefer the smaller, more old school events.

In reply to John Rushby:

plus it has never been the same since 98 - the only time fat lads like me got a top 30 B class place simply for being too stupid to pack it in and not sufficiently evolved to feel the cold.

In reply to John Rushby:

I'm now classed as a veteran!

The OED has this as... a person who has had long experience in a particular field. This is true as anyone who has done the OMM/KIMM knows - you arrive at mid-camp by teatime Saturday, have to get into your tent asap as it's pissing down, spend all night (and an extra bloody hour as it's always turning clocks back week-end) in the tent and surface still wet in the morning! I'd call that knowing a particular farmers field very well.

In reply to Eric the Red:
I think you are right, £55 for the weekend is good value considering what you get, and much cheaper than some "AR" events that I've done. I'm not sure of the value of some of the things they've introduced though e.g. real-time results / satellite tracking, surely the number of people following these is minimal, and I'd rather have cheaper entry instead.
The idea of needing a dedicated event centre is interesting. Yes the OMM is a larger event with more people, cars etc but what happened in 2008 could happen on the SLMM or the LAMM, so why don't they also need hard standing parking, dedicated communication officers etc etc? The 2008 OMM fiasco was a mixture of bad luck and imho, a bit of blinkered decision making on the part of the organisers who understandably wanted the event to go ahead. It would be a shame for all MM events to have to put into place similiar back ups (with the associated costs) just because 1 event had a problem once in the 40 odd times it has been run!

In reply to gimmer:

What happened in 2008 only became a problem because of the OTT media reporting, caused primarily by the actions of a single individual (RIP).

In reply to Toreador:

How was ignoring EA river flood warnings; placing the car park on a flood plain; having no contingency, other than walk back to event centre, for teams who got to the overnight (the camp-site, also on a flood plain), an OTT media problem? Opportunistic yes, but really?

The main problem with '08 in my opinion stems from Gerry Charnley's "this is the Karrimor" comment all those years ago. No one was ever going to be the first organiser to pull the plug. More's the pity; because after slogging our guts out to get to the overnight, (where nobody saw fit to tell the 20 or so teams who got there first, pitched tent, got sodden) we found out that the gig had been pulled at 11am! The conditions hadn't got worse; they were consistently bad so why not do the brave thing?

And no I'm not a cotton wool brigade. I like my races tough and challenging (I was quite prepared to see out day one and start the next day - seem to remember it being quite benign weather wise).

In reply to brt:

When they cancel the Fastnet, they can cancel the KIMM.

Too much cotton wool these days.

In reply to John Rushby:

Will the Royal Navy provide safety cover for the OMM too? Might have helped thinking about it.

In reply to brt:

The only flooded cars were those who ignored the instructions and parked on the road. Those on the field were unaffected.


That would have been sufficient contingency, why is more needed? Unfortunately we were prevented doing so by the Police, but camped in the field behind the barn at the mid camp (on a hill, not a flood plain).


Why should they need to, we were all self-sufficient. They were spending their resources on important things, like fielding questions from the media.


I couldn't agree more (assuming by 'the brave thing' you mean not cancelling the event).

OMM 2008, don't get the issue!? was there, all part of the game. my fags got wet!
mates took the p*ss, i took the p*ss.

end of story really...

In reply to Tony the Blade: On the second, everybody was gutted not to be able to carry on,(have good tails of were some slept) and yes it was more that a pack of fags! my backup tobacco was f*cked as well

In reply to Stew.G:

Know what you mean, we very nearly ran out of whisky (we walked back to our camper for the night when we found it was cancelled), the problem was that there were four of us to one bottle - bad planning I reckon!

In reply to Tony the Blade: to be honest, the thing that pi**ed me off the most was my own tent!!

before hand, had been good, I waterproofed it only to fine out it didn't stop water coming in but goldfish loved it!!!!

In reply to Eric the Red:

You missed one; car parking for a few hundred cars

I'm guessing hiring an event centre with enough hard surface car parking for that amount of cars doesn't come cheap.

I'm also guessing that the 2008 event aftermath of cars parked on the road being written off due to flood damage, opened the organisers eyes to the future possibility of cars parked at the event centre being subject to the same... Possibly leaving them liable(?)

People at the 2008 event were told to move their cars from the road and into the field, I know this because I was one of them.

In reply to Toreador:
>

Correct. Do you know why they parked on the road? I do. We were third car on and already it was a sodden mess.


We were. And even prepared to carry on for day two. But really? A marshal at the finish informing teams that it had been called off; that would have been too much?


I mean cancel it before-hand.

Anyway; we'll neither of us convince the other.

As for the OP much of the above is why the fee. The OMM is still the biggest event and needs the most infrastructure.

In reply to brt:

Eh? We arrived much later than that and it was dry enough?


There was one. Maybe you arrived before the cancellation was decided?


The latest weather forecast indicated that they'd be safe to go ahead. Unfortunately it was wetter than predicted, so half the midcamp field flooded (plenty of room for those of us that camped, but not if several thousand had all turned up!). I'm sure (or at least hope) they'd not have cancelled if the midcamp had been above water.


And despite the price it's still oversubscribed. Whereas the LAMM is cheaper and better, but also further away from most people, so always has space.

In reply to Toreador:
...but good to see the SLMM increasing in popularity, most classes are full already.

In reply to Toreador:

Not my recollection in the VW T4 we were in.



We arrived about 2pm. Cancellation was 11am if memory serves.




Which is why the OMM in my opinion handicaps itself as to venues.


Which is why I said the event was the biggest. It's far from the best and hasn't been for many years (IMO).

Why I get irksome about this topic is the apologists for the OMM trot out the "self sufficient/tough enough" etc defences which is fine; but at £100 a pop I expect certain things that the other events (by keeping it low key) seem to manage; and I've been through some savage times on the SLMM/LAMM and the KIMM when it was a bit more niche.

Anyway; we did all this two years ago.

In reply to brt:

True. And will no doubt do it again sometime

In reply to Toreador:
Ooops didn't really intend to open the 2008 can of worms again....

>> The OMM is still the biggest event and needs the most infrastructure.

>And despite the price it's still oversubscribed. Whereas the LAMM is >cheaper and better, but also further away from most people, so always has >space.

I was under the impression that in recent years it hasn't been oversubscribed, which is what led me to post the original message about fees, but as the OMM website has been relaunched I can't find the old news items so I don't know.
Anyway I have to agree with what people have written about the smaller niche events usually being cheaper and better than the bigger events. My worst experience on a race was the Bristol 1/2 marathon years ago, £25 to run around the streets near my house in the rain with 10000 other people, a totally inpersonal experience. Some of my best races have been long fell races which just charge £5 for entry, you get cheered on by all the marshalls and a good feed at the end too.

In reply to gimmer:

It was definitely full last year (or at least some classes were) as some friends were on the waiting list.

Most people here seem to prefer smaller events - but obviously we're in a minority, or the small events would all be oversubscribed, and the OMM would be half empty!

In reply to gimmer:


No worries.

Eight classes (E,A,B,C,D plus three score); average of 200 teams per class (I know there aren't 200 E but you get the drift); so nigh on 3000 people. Two maps each (Sat/Sun), toilets, marquee hire, prizes etc; still with a budget of £150,000, there's money to be spent (the marshals will be volunteers; the radio probably done by RayNet - so beer tokens).

Guess it's up to the "consumer" to decide if you're getting value.

In reply to gimmer:

Inflation for my rail ticket is about 11% this year and was 5% last year and the year before that. Oil prices have jumped up from about £1.15 a litre to £1.40 a litre in the space of a few week (16%)... OMM prices up by 16%...

Its a little above what I'm prepared to pay, but it's not like its running too far in adavance of other items we buy...