UKC

Hello All..

I reacently offered to teach climbing at the local youth centre as they have a reasonable good wall ,I chated to the guy incharge and he was more than happy to take me up on my offer.

he put me onto a instructor course which is wall specific , all good ,, started the course some guys have been brought in to teach a small group of us how to run climbing sessions with children..

It was obvious from the start that I was the only climber in the group and that we were going to be going over some really basic stuff.. not a problem i thought..

Then I lost faith in the people teaching , they talked a good game but I felt that they were missing somthing the belaying was ok but I felt that they made hard work of it all

during the day we talked about stuck climbers we were told that if a child was stuck to basicily wait till they fall off and then lower them.. I obviously wouldnt recommend this as the child may never want to have another go , there were lots of other things which i didnt agree with.

they did a part about rigging the top rope, for me leading is somthing I am doing all the time, but they had a few people leading and belaying a leader with not a mention about back cliping, steping through or z cliping , these people had only 10min ago learnt to belay , now they are belaying a leader..

did a bit about bouldering and movment, ok I thought all basic stuff , but the guy was asking me for some names of hold Jugs,slopers.... he then went on to teach a hold called a pinch. what he was actually teaching was a closed crimp.. even if he had called it a crimp would of been better than a pinch... lol . . . I laughed to myself... then corrected him.

at one point when a fellow course member was on the wall the instructor guy was teaching he had let go of the dead end whilst the climber was still on the wall no one had the rope...
he then went on to talk about tying off the belay, he had a climber at the top holding on, with a little slack in the rope. he then said about tying off he said " you could tie this end off to anything rap it around you arm or leg" then he joked " even his neck" and then wrapped the rope around the belayers neck. this was done in a light harted fassion and I kid you not... if the climber had of fallen at this point the other guy would of been hung... !!!!

another gripe i have is that the other people on the course are going to be instructing children on this climbing wall , and they all with an exception of one or two really struggled with climbing the wall easy routes/ belaying/ and just using the equipment on a whole..

is this type of thing normal, is there any gov bodies for being a climbing instructor??

I was really disapointed to the point where I was giving my own instruction I feel that I need to mention this to the youth centre it was just very shabby . . . .

In reply to AndyE9: Sounds a wee bit shabby,where is this so i can avoid going there.

the wall is a local youth centre wall, thats not the prob.. it is the poeple who have came in to teach ....

In reply to AndyE9:


Not normal and yes there are "proper" courses to go on.

Visit the MLTUK website and look at the SPA, CWA and MIA.

In reply to AndyE9:

Andy

Overall it seems that you know an awful lot of what is right, and was able to distinquish what was not sensible about what you saw or was taught. I suggest you go with a mix of what you know and what you were taught.

And yes, I would mention it to the youth centre, that way they might not be so keen to invite those guys back; and might even look into getting someone that is reputable.

With regard to the rope around the neck, totally wrong and out of order. Instructors usually try to use humour as a means of making a course interesting; and memorable, which in your case it was! But that was misplaced humour.

ES

In reply to AndyE9: Perhaps email the BMC just to let them know, sounds a bit dangerous to me this?

In reply to Mike Nolan:

And what can they do about it?

Who was delivering this site specific training?

Thanks guys. . .

I will prob have a quiet word with the youth club just to let them know.. I have had second thoughts about helping teaching and instructing , as I dont really want to put my name to any course or teaching practice that I dont agree with, I dont really want to be associated with bad practise.. I am sure this course was a valid course..

I went in with an open mind, as I was hoping to learn somthing new, even just the best way to instruct others, I didnt go to try and trip these guys up , but as a climber the things they were doing or not doing just stuck out ...

I also dont understand how people "rest of the group" feel that they are able to instruct when they can bearly do it them seleves . I know thy have to, do so many times as a helper first and so on.. but it seems a bit of a joke..

Maybe its just me..lol...

Oh sorry I can not remember the name of the people doing the training....

Am I right in thinking that there is no governing body, and that any one can go off and teach climbing to others... ?

In reply to AndyE9: I'm sure I answered that last question higher up..

In reply to Paul at work: I'm sure they know who to contact so that somebody doesn't get killed. It's a lot better than not doing anything at all...

In reply to jezb1:

Site Specfic courses are normal. And are very commonly used, particularly for small climbing walls.

A MIA course is not exactly the one to recommend in this case. BUT a CWA may do the trick.

In reply to AndyE9: hence why I listed spa, cwa and mia....

In reply to AndyE9: plus wasn't clear, when I said no its not normal I was refering to the instructors behavior not the fact it was a site specific course.

I understand that there are diff courses that cover this, as mentiond , but what I ment is there a legal requirement for someone to teach climbing , be it indoors or out , or can anyone go off and call themselves an instructor and teach?? and who is it regulated by..

I used to kite surf and before a person could teach it was a legal requirement for them to undertake iko or a bksa which allowed a person to teach, you would also have to have a power boat ticket and a first aid cirt, this was set by the RYA.

in some sports there are courses aimed for instructing but it is not a requirement..

???

In reply to AndyE9:
HI Andy

In theory yes there is no governing body.In reality there is good practice which would be to hire a competent instructor (usually qualified but not necessarily) and they would follow a set syllabus. The BMC/MLTE have suggested syllabi which any competent instructor would be relating to.

It sounds like you should point them in the direction of the AMI, The BMC or the MLTE.

In reply to AndyE9:

As posted earlier use the MLTE, you are looking for CWA indoors and the the other qualifications allow you to teach indoors and out doors. the course soinded wrong as most people who teach the CWA require you to be a competent climber before they even take you on the course and then you have to fill in your log book before you can pass.

This course sounds wrong and the centre running it probably should not let those two instructors back into teach as they clearly did not show proper practice in teaching you certain things about being a climbing instructor.

In reply to AndyE9:

I also work in a small youth centre climbing wall.

We are training some site specific instructors, some of whom never had climbed before. We used a technical advisor who is and MIA to train our site spec guys. Yes they did a crash course (not literally!) and went from non climber to trainee instructor in two days. However they now have to shaddow experienced instructors before doing a full day assessment to see if they can teach unsupervised at the wall.

I have mixed feelings about whether non climbers should be straigt on a site spec course, but I have confidence in our tech advisor that when he assessess them he knows what he is looking for.

As far as I know there are no compulsory governing bodies for indoor climbing. It is not covered by AALA. I would be interested to know what their insurance scheme is though, as with shoddy training and no technical advisor who knows about climbing there are going to be a lot holes to fill in.

If it was me I'd be having a quiet word with the centre manager about safety concerns, and probably withdrawing my offer of help.

In reply to AndyE9: Hi there. Just a couple of points that might not have been fully covered.

The only people who are actually qualified to run the sort of training you describe are fully qualified Mountaineering Instructors (or Guides). Anyone else with lower qualifications is NOT qualified but there is no law stopping anyone walking in from the street and teaching climbing. If the staff weren't MIA qualified or higher then unfortunately it would not surprise me that they did a poor job.

All Mountain Guides are regulated by British Mountain Guides but not all Mountaineering Instructors are members of the Association of Mountaineering Instructor(AMI) with a strict code of professional standards. Both Guides & AMI members are obvious due to BMG/AMI logos prominent on websites, vehicles and paperwork and the fact they will invariably support BMG/AMI badges on their fleeces and rucksacs.

In addition, only some MIs/Guides are certified to deliver MLT Board approved courses. These instructors will have attended additional workshops to ensure what they are teaching is correct. They will also be subject to regular moderation visits by the boards. All course providers are listed on MLT Board websites. Choosing these instructors is a good way to ensure quality. Some like 'Paul at work' post on here.

The only last caveat is that any MIA will charge you a minimum of £170/day if not more like £250+/day to run training and issue documentation showing what training has been done.

If the youth centre didn't employ an AMI member and MLT certified provider than that was the core problem. Next time they need to employ the correct staff.
If it was an AMI member then the youth centre has clear avenues for complaint or redress, to the instructor in the first instance with the option of taking it to AMI.