/ NEWS: Cornish Bolt and Fixed Gear Debate - RESULTS

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UKC News - on 05 Apr 2011
Sennen and Irish Lady Cove. Phot taken by moonlight., 3 kbLast Saturday the 2nd of April 60 climbers attended the BMC SW Area Meeting held in Redruth, Cornwall to discuss fixed and drilled protection and the development of sport climbing in West Cornwall.

Shane Ohly reports:

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=61461

Jonny2vests - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Blimey, three hours and not a single comment. Was looking forward to a few fireworks.
Michael Ryan - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to jonny2vests:

Wat, no video?
3 Names - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to jonny2vests:

Looks like everyones happy with the result?
Niall - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
> (In reply to jonny2vests)
>
> Wat, no video?

Video of......rocks not being bolted? An avant-garde film to be sure :-)
Michael Ryan - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Niall:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC)
> [...]
>
> Video of......rocks not being bolted? An avant-garde film to be sure :-)

The debate shirley! Such an important debate should have been recorded.

Like this one: http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=526

We can all at least comment then and what was discussed/said/resolved/decided

Niall - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:

Incidentally, I have PROOF that the Cheesewring was a quarry :-D
rockjedi12345 - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Niall:

Im sure that if you look into it, the cheesewring is actually a reclaimed sea cliff and used to resemble lulworth cove!

mkean - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to jonny2vests:
I'm still wondering how the BMC feels able to comment on actions in Cornwall: I thought it was an anarcho-syndicalist commune and separate from the rest of Britain?
Sam Mayfield - on 05 Apr 2011


Was not worth videoing and you all know what was said from the results! Why dig for more?
maverick - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Sam Mayfield:

We all want to see a video so we can be bored out of our skins with it...
mkean - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Sam Mayfield:
To disprove the allegations on wikileaks that people were being asked "Do you own a clipstick?" on the way in and anyone fool enough to say yes was subject to a treatment called "Ciderboarding" and beaten with a Cornish pasty if they tried to vote.

:-)
GrahamD - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
> (In reply to Niall)
> [...]
>
> The debate shirley! Such an important debate should have been recorded.
>
> Like this one: http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=526
>
> We can all at least comment then and what was discussed/said/resolved/decided

Maybe the climbing media should have sent someone in that case ?

Sam Mayfield - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to GrahamD:

and I am sure that most people in the room would have asked the tape to be turned off, if people wanted to know exactly what was said then they should have made the effort and come in person!

Sam
chris j on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Sam Mayfield:
> (In reply to GrahamD)
>
> if people wanted to know exactly what was said then they should have made the effort and come in person!


If I wasn't sitting on a boat off Angola for the next 3 weeks then I'd have been there. Bit far to commute and still get back for my next shift...

But luckily I don't want to listen to the debate, the results say enough.

Will be interested to see how many of those who voted for bolts etc to be removed and made good will give up their time to make it happen.
augustus trout - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to mkean:
Antidisestablismentarian with an agrarian focus, I thought. Though there are small areas with Makhno like Anarchist tendencies.
Sam Mayfield - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to chris j:

The area now has a working party with Shane Ohly co-ordinating, it will be well organised rather than a free for all. The state of the rock been high on the priority!

I am just typing up the names now and the details will be on the BMC website soon.

Sam
minus273degrees - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News: errm maybe obvious but what is the difference between drilled protections and fixed protection?
Sam Mayfield - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to minus273degrees:

Drilled with a drill = bolts, fixed protection mainly means pegs which get to stay and die on their own!

Sam
mkean - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Sam Mayfield:
Where do drilled peg placements fit into the policy? :-)
Cusco - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News:

Cool.

For clarity, which are the "certain specific Cornish venues" (I note the plural so it's presumably not just limited to the Cheesewring) where sports climbing on drilled bolts can be established/retained?

I see that the following motion was carried:
"Proposes that all drilled protection is removed from sea cliffs and natural inland outcrops and where damage to the rock has occurred and repair is possible, for that repair to be carried out."

On the assumption that Carn Vellan will be classified as a sea cliff, will the working party be arranging for the bolt hangers that were cut through in circa 1993 but not removed to finally be removed? How about it Mike? Once more unto the breach dear friends, once more...!
Michael Ryan - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Sam Mayfield:
> (In reply to GrahamD)
>
> and I am sure that most people in the room would have asked the tape to be turned off, if people wanted to know exactly what was said then they should have made the effort and come in person!
>

No Sam... the majority of the climbers in the UK live quite a drive away.

Meetings discussing divisive issues like this should be filmed for us all.

So next time, get a young videographer, put your best frock on and record it. Edit then broadcast.

At the least it would be entertaining (well, edited highlights), more importantly it would be edifying especially to the many young climbers who don't understand the complexities and illogical arguments where fixed gear is concerned in the UK.

M

Sam Mayfield - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:

Importantly everyone in the room would have had to agreed to be filmed, I for one would have said no!

A film camera might have stopped people saying what they really wanted, who wants to be judged later on in the cold light of day!

The results tell everyone what they need to know, it would not have been entertaining at all. We did'nt really need to debate again as alot was said at the first meeting in Oct, Sat night was just about the votes.

Sam


JJL - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:
> (In reply to Sam Mayfield)
> [...]
>
> No Sam... the majority of the climbers in the UK live quite a drive away.
>
> Meetings discussing divisive issues like this should be filmed for us all.
>
> So next time, get a young videographer, put your best frock on and record it. Edit then broadcast.
>

Try to be a bit more patronising Mick.

Also, the meeting decided how it wanted to conduct itself. I shouldn't think it gives a tinker's cuss how you think it should have been done.
Sam Mayfield - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to JJL:

hmm just re read I guess an "old videograher" would not have been the same, and maybe I can claim for a "best frock" on my BMC expenses claim form, what do you all think?

Sam very bored now with all this!
avonclimber - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Cusco:

>For clarity, which are the "certain specific Cornish venues"
The question wasn't raised at the meeting, but the area that we were discussing was West Cornwall, as covered by the CC guide. So draw a line SW from Godrevy Point to Coverack - it's inland venues in there. Cheesewring is well outside of that.

The working party is to come back to a future SW Area meeting with a proposal for its way of working.

- Jerzy
avonclimber - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Sam Mayfield:

>Sam very bored now with all this!
Not surprised!
Iain Peters - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Sam Mayfield:

Sam: you done good gal. Pat, Frank and I would've worn our frocks if the BMC had let us know beforehand what the dress code was. We just thought the reference to gear in the agenda referred to bolts and pegs and stuff.
Sam Mayfield - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to avonclimber:

Maybe YOU should have warn a posh frock Jerzy and we could have got in touch with Steven Speilberg I am sure he would have loved Redruth High School!

;o)
Sam Mayfield - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Iain Peters:

Bless you Iain, I needed a laugh after my day!

Well at least we know to keep the cameras out when we start to talk about the rest of Cornwall!

Sam
ads.ukclimbing.com
Tom Last - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Cusco:

Hi Cusco. The motions of the meeting only covered those climbing areas falling under the CC West Cornwall guide coverage, so Cheesewring and the Luxulyan quarries were not covered. Any of the quarries in the Helston area, non sea cliff quarries on the Lizard and any in West Penwith would be covered by this motion however. AFAIK have really been developed for sport yet though, as such, there are no specific venues as yet.

I got the impression that all the fixed gear, both smashed and currently in use would be removed, although this was not mentioned specifically. The party is made up of local active climbers and I would think that this is their intention.

Mick. In defense of Sam, I'd take her word for it to be honest. There really wasn't much point filming it, for the reason Sam's already mentioned - i.e, folk wouldn't have been keen and because not much was actually argued as such. Both meetings have been more concerned with ironing out the proposals and then voting on them, rather than setting out the pros and cons of non/bolting - all the debate happened on here beforehand!
Mick Ward - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Sam Mayfield:

Hey Sam, does sound like you done good. Mick means well (trust me, he does) but it's got to be up to the participants of a meeting whether they agree whether to be recorded. Cameras can inhibit some and encourage others!

'The best lack all conviction
while the worst
are full of passionate intensity...'

Mick

Iain Peters - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Mick Ward:
> (In reply to Sam Mayfield)

> 'The best lack all conviction
> while the worst
> are full of passionate intensity...'
>

Not forgetting Mick,
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world."

Perhaps if this were to happen at a BMC Meeting, then it might be worth recording!

Mark Kemball - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News: Well, I was there and spoke. I would not have been happy to be videoed!
avonclimber - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Sam Mayfield:

Entry will be restricted to those in fancy dress ;-)
franksnb - on 05 Apr 2011
In reply to Mick Ryan - Senior Editor - UKC:

'young climbers' that don't yet have a distorted view of how important climbing is; because they haven't yet devoted their life to the pointless pursuit.. ?

Also they are probably confused that people meet over the safely of a building material?

keeping it real gang
Jonny2vests - on 06 Apr 2011
In reply to mkean:
> (In reply to jonny2vests)
> I'm still wondering how the BMC feels able to comment on actions in Cornwall: I thought it was an anarcho-syndicalist commune and separate from the rest of Britain?

You're fooling yourself. Cornwall is a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes...
stroppygob - on 06 Apr 2011
"I'm still wondering how the BMC feels able to comment on actions in Cornwall: I thought it was an anarcho-syndicalist commune and separate from the rest of Britain?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Some would have it so...

http://www.cornishstannaryparliament.co.uk/

http://www.cornishfightingfund.org/about.php

http://www.celticleague.net/kernow/

mad as a cut snake...
shane ohly - on 06 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News:

The meeting voted to remove all drilled protection, so this included both drilled pegs and bolts. Our intention is to remove the bolt stubs from Carn Vellan as well. This is going to be a longterm project and I'll be presenting a plan to the next BMC SW Area meeting proposing how best to this. We will (indeed have already) be checking with the BMC technical experts about how best to remove bolts and repair the rock.
Dave Henderson - on 06 Apr 2011
In reply to shane ohly:

Re. Carn Vellan

Although a bit controversial it may be worth using a temporary fixing to allow a proper job to be done:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/multi-monti-hex-head-10-x-70mm-drill-size-8-pack-of-50/28415

A volunteer could reverse aid down the bolt lines (on an ab rope) by placing Multi-Montis (drill 8mm hole and they just wind in and out again, Petzl 10mm hanger required) and any natural gear that exists. When at the bottom they could then aid back up, removing existing chopped/unchopped bolts from the crag. As long as the Multi-Monti bolts are close enough together the volunteer could just reach down and remove the previous fixing as they re-ascend, filling the tiny hole with appropriate filler.

I imagine removing the old stubs would require a cordless angle grinder, a drill and some filler.

... not an easy job.

Some kind of tensioned wire may work but I'm not convinced.

Have fun!

Dave
DAVETHOMAS90 - on 11 Apr 2011
In reply to UKC News: What a load of blox.

I'm off to Cornwall with my new bolt kit. Haven't been there for years, but I've spotted this sweet line..

I anticipate an anti-authoritarian backlash.

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