UKC

What features (if any) would you have on an ideal 'sac for Uk winter routes? Any unusual ones? None to keep the weight down?

(Yes, an integral anti-gravity drive would be nice, but not currently within the scope of today's technology.)

In reply to Wingnut: A couple of holes in the bottom so all the slush off your kit can drain out.

In reply to Wingnut:

One with a kit-elevator which moves the thing you instantly need to the top of the sack as opposed to the bottom! Please!

In reply to Wingnut: Light, but hard wearing.....maybe upto 35 litres (not much more).

Ice axe loops and not much else in the way of straps/buckles etc.....maybe an elasticated cord area for strapping crampons to....

In reply to Wingnut: good compression straps that actually compress decent axe holder none of this old school stuff somthing like berghaus' system easy to open and close w/ gloves; lid that stays out of the way; and rocketattachmentpoint not as environmentally friendly as the anti gravity thingamagig but works well!!

In reply to vscott: and a drybag inseide to keep emergency stuff out of it.

In reply to Wingnut:
lid pocket. as few seams as possible. as little padding as possible. 45 litre capacity. as light a fabric as possible. side comperssion straps for axes.

no axe holders
no crampon pouch
no frills.

In reply to Wingnut: quick release buckles that stay done up when you try to pull the straps really tight (fckuing rounded karrimor . . . . )

In reply to rich: and what dave said

In reply to chris tan:
Would have to work in direct opposition to an unstoppable natural force, though . . . Sod's law!

In reply to Wingnut:

• Big enough for all your stuff but small enough climb in.
  
• Somewhere to keep your sharps so you don't ruin your £xxx goretex or platypus.
  
• Side & bottom add on pockets/pouches so you can also use it on longer trips.
  
• Lightweight but also bombproof.
  
• External bandolier racking.
  
• Haul loops on the front & back.
  

Will think of more later.

In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run:

Funny that, sounds like my old Whillans sack from the 60s in a lighter material, with a pull out bivi extention.

In reply to rich:
Ah, it's not just me has problems with Karriless buckles then?

In reply to Wingnut:

The new round buckles are ShiTe! If anyone from karrimor is reading this, please take note!

In reply to Wingnut:

no frills is the way forward.. my sack is fantastic, just a tube with some straps... really really light weight...

In reply to Wingnut:

a complimentry sherpa would be nice.

In reply to chris tan:
i've also found that the karrimor alpiniste 40 i bought 2 years ago fits less than other 40 litre rucksacks...due to its non-flat bottom perhaps? anyone else found this?

oh, also, hip belts (lumbar supports?) that are supportive but not bulky...and not so long as to mean that you can't do tighten them properly around a skinny waist (30 inches).

decent lid pocket...not one that becomes useless as soon as you pack the rucksack to the gills (ie. karrimor alpiniste).

In reply to Wingnut:

plain tube with sleeve for inserting of karrimat sections
Compression straps run in sleeves at side of sack and emerge at back. This helps prevent snagging.
Two ice-axe loops at back.
Lid has small external pocket with small clip for keys inside. Rope strap on underside of lid.
Crampon attachment points on top of lid.
Simple waist belt

That's it

Bob

In reply to Wingnut:

A BASE jumping parachute, so you could if stuck (or not so as the case may be) sort yourself out a softer landing.

In reply to Wingnut:

Gear loops on the waist belt. I'd love to have them on my sac; I can never get to the loops on my harness properly.

In reply to Bob:
yes but get rid of the axe loops and crampon attatchments- then youd be close to perfect. oh lose the rope strap too. cheers d

In reply to AHKC:

You want gear loops on your waist belt? Why not get some line and make a gear loop that clips on it, Cheap and removable for when you remove the sack.

In reply to sutty: Or just use a sling as a bandolier and rack only screws on your harness. If you have the krab upside down with the gate facing out, you snap them off rather than unclipping.

In reply to Dave Hunter:

It only takes a bit of thought and ingenuity to overcome most prolems, like learning to spell problems

In reply to Dave Hunter, Rock + Run:

And a maximum size of 35 litres

Bob

In reply to sutty:
Learning to type I think you'll find. Spelling isn't the problem, laziness and a lack of touch typing ability is...

In reply to Bob:
well if you are going to have rope and crampons hanging in an unsightly manner off the back of the sack, then 35l will do...

I bow to the aged and experienced in this case...

For a climbing oriented pack -
Arc'teryx Nozone is pretty good
Has a good deal of removeable items to adjust to the route, nice shoulderstraps, minimal back padding

Good features: spectra is a good fabric, removeable bivy pad, stays and framesheet, padded hipbelt can be switched with a webbing hipbelt (gear loops on padded, can be fixed to webing belt,) removeable "floating" crampon patch with daisy chains, daisy chains on the pack body (if you take off the patch), internal compression straps to keep out of the way, key clip in top pocket, rope stabilizer.

I really like mine.
The crampon patch is flat, with shockcord, so that when cramponsis under the cord, the whole patch can be pressed against the pack (like a hand) to compress, say rain gear?

A tad heavy full loaded, but minus stays and padded belt, light enough. Carries heavy loads very well.

If you have the $$$, get a custom Mchale!

Oh, for good packs at a VERY LOW PRICE
wheck out mountain equipment co-op (of Canada)
www.mec.ca

I remember seeing a 50 or 70L pack for around 70 CDN
(taxes/shipping excluded)

In reply to Dave Hunter:

You are missing the point my man: The crampon attachment point and rope strap are for those for whom 35L will not do.

Bob

In reply to raisin:

Yup! The Alpiniste is tricky to pack properly. I've a very old Hot Ice, 30l & an Alpiniste, 45 + 10L.

I know the Ice is smaller than the Alpiniste as I can get Ice fully packed into the Alpiniste, without using the extension much. I then take everything out of the Ice & pack it into the Alpiniste... & I'm having to use the full 10L extension! Huh!

Don't even suggest it

In reply to chris tan:
Sure that's not part of the expanding kit phenomenon - it gets bigger each time you pack it?

It goes in easily at home at the start of the trip, but then when you're ready to come home it just won't fit in even though it should theoretically be smaller 'cos you've eaten some of it. Gggrrr.

In reply to Wingnut:
a lightweight nylon organiser so you can pull out entire contents in a lump, get something from its place and then put whole organiser back in sac

In reply to Wingnut:

Not really a rucsac but a stuff sac with a vacumn seal & valve. Fill it full of stuff, seal & suck the air out to compress.

Remember you heard it first on RT!

In reply to chris tan: like this?

http://faq.productchat.com/pictures/vacuum_storage_bags.jpg

In reply to Ian Hill:

Yup, but not with a vacumn cleaner though.

God! That just reminded me of the old DEC Vax computer system for student teaching. By coincidence, there was a type of vacumn cleaner, also called a Vax.

Some wit coined the phrase, "Nothing sucks like a Vax!" How true!

In reply to Bob:

Not sure what your point was?

My arc`teryx bora 30 has an underlid strap for roped,
and a crampon pouch can be clipped on if it doesn`t fit in the kangaroo pouch

do you want a max size of 35L??

In reply to Wingnut: I had a Karrimor hot route 55 which fell to bits thanks to terrible build quality and poor materials. It took it to bits, made a template and then rebuilt it out of good quality material, with the same basic shape, but no frills axe loops and a bivi sleeve. It's ideal for everything, and if it was ever stolen, would be easy enough to recognise (unlike my POD sack, which some ba***rd decided to steal). It's a bit of hassle making your own sack, especially if you can't sew but with a bit of practise its straightforward ........ somethingn to do if you're ever on the dole.

In reply to Frank Hovis: Having read this thread with interest, and having owned about 6 different climbing daysacs, the best one I have had was the old Karrimor Hot Route. It had a long back, weighed just over a kilo, and was just right for stuffing gear in. Its only feature was a lid pocket. Its best quality was that it sat well when half full climbing with it on a route. Most modern sacs seem to be designed to fall apart, pod and macpac excepted.