/ THE LOWDOWN: Adam Ondra climbs Chilam Balam [UPDATED}

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Björn Pohl - UKC - on 13 Apr 2011
Adam Ondra on Chilam balam, 9?, 4 kbFour tries was all that it took and it was done.

Adam Ondra made swift work of Barnabé Fernandez's 82m marathon of a route at Villanueva del Rosario, near Málaga in southern Spain. Barnabé worked it for three season before he made the first ascent. It should be mentioned the ascent is surrounded by a lot of...

This item has now been updated with comments from Adam Ondra

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=61640
Lemony - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC: News. Of. The. Motherf*cking. Year.
mattmurphy - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:

Wow just wow
scooott - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:
Four tries.. wow.
zapal - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC: As to the grading, loose translation of part of what it says here

http://www.lezec.cz/clanek.php?key=9385&nazev=adam_ondra_dal_chilam_balam

is

'And the difficulty? According to his (Adam's) own words 9b.'

Jan
andy farnell - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC: Holy fook!

Andy F
Lee Proctor - on 13 Apr 2011
Incredible - his achievements just seem to be getting better, I predict an onsight of Realization at Ceuse later this year !!
@ndyM@rsh@ll - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC: cool.
NJBrown - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Lee Proctor: I think he's been saving it as well. Quite a few trips to Ceuse but has never touched the thing!
A Longleat Boulderer - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:

Holy. F*cking. Shit.
A Longleat Boulderer - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:

Gobsmacked.
Scarab - on 13 Apr 2011
Un-believe-able-!!!
Tris.w - on 13 Apr 2011
Animal!
Ben Thorne - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:

Jizzed my pants for the second time this year.
Quarryboy - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:

Judging from how many tries it took him I bet it'll turn out to be 9a+
andy farnell - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Quarryboy: What does that make Overshadow?

Andy F
Quarryboy - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to andy farnell:

Probably 9b :)
A Longleat Boulderer - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Quarryboy:
> (In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC)
>
> Judging from how many tries it took him I bet it'll turn out to be 9a+

Haha, I love it... he's so good we consider 9a+ a path.
Quarryboy - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:

I wonder how many bolted lines there are out there now that still present a challenge to him?
Michael Hood - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Quarryboy: All he needs to do now is quick repeats of Akira, Overshadow and Sharma's route King Lines or whatever it's called, onsight Realization - then he can start putting up some proper hard routes - 9b+ and 9c are calling I think.
Michael Hood - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:
> Haha, I love it... he's so good we consider 9a+ a path.

Wasn't he there with Sharma. If so it would be interesting to know how he's getting on in comparison and what he thinks about Ondra's climbing.

andy farnell - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Quarryboy:
> (In reply to A Longleat Boulderer)
>
> I wonder how many bolted lines there are out there now that still present a challenge to him?

That could be the issue. There aren't as many as you may think.

Andy F
A Longleat Boulderer - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Michael Hood:

Yeah, I think you're right... would be bloody interesting to hear. I'm sure we will.
Quarryboy - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:

I want to see Ondra do FRFM in like 3 goes now just to rub it in Sharmas face.
roddersm - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to Quarryboy: Well by by estimation the only sport routes of significance left are Realization (which he said hes saving for the flash),Jumbo Love, Overshadow, Es Pontas, Big Bang, Hubble and Liquid Ambar. After that he's done it all and he's only 18! I've never seen anything like it, has there ever been anyone so far ahead of the pack?

I wonder what odds william hill would give on him knocking these off this year?
Quarryboy - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to roddersm:

You forgot violent new breed :)
ksjs - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to roddersm: Ondra at LPT, can't wait. Mind you I was struggling with some technicalities down there today so can't see he'll find any of it too easy ;)
andy farnell - on 13 Apr 2011
In reply to roddersm: Rainshadow (which he never went near last year) and Mutation are both unrepeated. There are other 9a's around which he could cast his eye (of Sauron) onto...

Andy F
samoflak - on 14 Apr 2011
sharma reportedly close also, has done the route with one fall
mallory45 - on 14 Apr 2011
Some more high-end routes for him to climb, that I haven't seen mentioned:

Coup de Grace
Neanderthal
3 Degrees of Separation
Demencia Senil (hurt himself trying it in 2009 or 2010: maybe he stays off?)

Ondra has already climbed around Realization. So is the onsight still available to him?
ads.ukclimbing.com
TheAvenger - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to roddersm:
> (In reply to Quarryboy) Well by by estimation the only sport routes of significance left are Realization (which he said hes saving for the flash),Jumbo Love, Overshadow, Es Pontas, Big Bang, Hubble and Liquid Ambar. After that he's done it all and he's only 18! I've never seen anything like it, has there ever been anyone so far ahead of the pack?

There are dozens of routes out there at 9a or harder.

I'm sure he won't be running out of them any time soon. At least for the next week or so... Can't wait for the video!
valjean - on 14 Apr 2011
wow

really makes me wonder what would happen if the other top World Cup competitors focused on repeating routes and establishing new routes on a full time basis instead of only doing it in their off season and between comps.

Ian Dunn - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to mallory45: He might have seen a photo or two of it as well but I guess he would be happy with the flash!! So impressive his achievements considering he can only just order a pint legally, perhaps that will be his downfall though I doubt it.
Enty - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to mallory45:

>
> Ondra has already climbed around Realization. So is the onsight still available to him?

I heard that whenever he was in the vicinity of Realisation he wore blinkers. When anyone was trying the route and he was close by he also put ear plugs in.
His friends have to lead him underneath the route by the hand with a black hood on his head.

I for one would be deeply dissapointed if Ondra claims an OS if he flashes realisation.

WTF

E

roddersm - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Quarryboy: Sorry guys yes I know there's a few out there yet that he hasn't done but lets face it there isn't that much and given the fact hes only 18 and the speed hes knocking these off there's not that much out there left. It's incredible. Put it like this given what he's already done there's not much out there that you'd think he might fail on.
Fraser on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Enty:

:-D like it!
Max factor - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to roddersm:

does 4 tries mean 4th redpoint attempt? being a bit slow here.

Good luck to him on realisation, looks to be a different sytle of route to the mega overhanging Oliana style routes. No doubting an onsight is a possibility for him.
PeterJuggler - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC: Assuming he did actually climb it, I think Chilam Balam was still way ahead of its time - possibly 2 grades above anything else when Barnabé climbed it. It can't have been easy choosing a grade for it when the grades in-between hadn't been set yet.
Owen W-G - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to PeterJuggler:

Whoever moderates his wiki page must struggle to keep up

3 9b/5.15b routes
9 9a+/5.15a routes
35 9a/5.14d routes
79 8c+/5.14c routes (5 onsight)
96 8c/5.14b routes (16 onsight)
272 8b/5.13d and 8b+/5.14a routes (124 onsight)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Ondra
johncoxmysteriously - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to TheAvenger:

>There are dozens of routes out there at 9a or harder

I'm not sure many of the 9as any longer pose an interesting challenge.

How many 9a+ routes are there in the world, roughly? I find I really have no idea.

jcm
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

> I'm not sure many of the 9as any longer pose an interesting challenge.

Whathisname - the 'elderly' Italian slabmeister - hasn't he done a multipitch alpine route with a 9a pitch on it? That would probably be interesting!
scooott - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:
I think Ondra should come try Overshadow and Violent New Breed.
He'd surely be able to do them but it'd be good if they actually got some repeats and a solid confirmation of the grades.

Anyway, I wonder what Ondra could do on the gritstone?
/run

Red Rover - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to roddersm:
> (In reply to Quarryboy) Well by by estimation the only sport routes of significance left are Realization (which he said hes saving for the flash),Jumbo Love, Overshadow, Es Pontas, Big Bang, Hubble and Liquid Ambar.

What about some of the JD routes like Total Eclipse at Malham?
joem - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to scooott: i suspect anything he put his mind to if Im honest would be interesting if he turned his attention to trad though
remus - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to scooott:
> Anyway, I wonder what Ondra could do on the gritstone?

A better question would be 'what couldnt he do?'

ian Ll-J - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:

I'd love to see him on the Slate, 'The Quarryman' and 'The Very Big and the Very Small'...Not 9's but would be really interesting to see if he could on sight them...
carnie - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to PeterJuggler: It would only have been a grade harder than Akira climbed in 1995 or 96 can't remember which, assuming that the 9b+ still applies.
andy farnell - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to scooott:
> (In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC)
> I think Ondra should come try Overshadow and Violent New Breed.
> He'd surely be able to do them but it'd be good if they actually got some repeats and a solid confirmation of the grades.
>

He tried Overshadow last year. He said it was 'at least 9a+'

Andy F


Michael Ryan - on 14 Apr 2011
a small selection of Adam Ondra features published at UKClimbing.com

ADAM ONDRA - The Exclusive Interview
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=2747


Your Questions for Adam Ondra - Answered!
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1248


PHOTOS/NEW INTERVIEW: Adam Ondra on Tough Enough
http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=58509

Adam Ondra at Malham
http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=53197
Quiddity - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

http://escalade9.wifeo.com/voies.php

according to this page, 271 routes with a proposed grade of 9a or above.

from his 8a.nu scorecard Ondra had done 47 routes at 9a and above. Which is mind boggling, but still leaves a fair bit more to go at.
galpinos - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to TobyA:
> (In reply to johncoxmysteriously)
>
> [...]
>
> Whathisname - the 'elderly' Italian slabmeister

Manolo.

Ian Patterson on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to plexiglass_nick:
> (In reply to johncoxmysteriously)
>
> http://escalade9.wifeo.com/voies.php
>
> according to this page, 271 routes with a proposed grade of 9a or above.
>
> from his 8a.nu scorecard Ondra had done 47 routes at 9a and above. Which is mind boggling, but still leaves a fair bit more to go at.

Interesting list which looks pretty up to date - at the 9a+ and above end AO ststs are looking ridiculous,

31 routes of 9a+ (including 3 at 9a/b) - AO has done 9
9 routes at 9b (including Chilam Balam) - AO has done 4, 3 this year.

So he's got 27 routes left in the world that might challenge him a bit, at a nominal 3 days a route (doesn't sound too challenging given his current performance) that's 81 climbing days left to tick the world :)




roddersm - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Ian Patterson: 81 days sounds about right Ian! The sport climbing world tapped out by 19. Not a bad effort at all :).

Maybe he'll get on the grit then ;).
PeterJuggler - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC: From his interview it sounds like he made much more than 4 attempts. Where did the original 4 attempts info come from?
Gordon Stainforth - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:

I like his comment 'normal 9b' ...
HeMa on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to PeterJuggler:
> (In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC) From his interview it sounds like he made much more than 4 attempts. Where did the original 4 attempts info come from?

My guess he did it on his 4th redpoint attempt... The numerous earlier tries were on toprope-hangdog to get a feel for the climb/moves.
Diggler - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
> (In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC)
>
> I like his comment 'normal 9b' ...

I chuckled at that to.

There is nothing NORMAL about 9b.

It's a grade for genetic freaks and pure animals.
ksjs - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to HeMa: Really misleading comment. I would in no way report that this was my fourth attempt (I'm not saying Adam did say this btw) if I'd had multiple efforts whilst working the route.
scooott - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to ksjs:
> (In reply to HeMa) Really misleading comment. I would in no way report that this was my fourth attempt (I'm not saying Adam did say this btw) if I'd had multiple efforts whilst working the route.

I saw a video of Ondra climbing something on his '2nd attempt' too, after showing him working all the moves numerous times.

They should state redpoint attempt, to be clear. I got the impression he tried to climb the route from top to bottom 4 times until he linked it all in one go on his 4th try.

Still a crazy ascent though, clearly the strongest sport climber out there.
mkean - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to ksjs:
I took this as 4th session, as in he concentrated on it for 4 visits to the crag or something. The comments about the kneebars are interesting, presumably this make the route very morpo and gives a bit of a reason why other really strong climbers haven't managed to get up it?
johncoxmysteriously - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to ksjs:

C'mon, you just don't speak the language. When the top boys say 4th attempt about a route like this, they mean 4th redpoint attempt. I don't imagine they even start by trying to onsight the thing; it's too tiring a way to go about it.

jcm
lithos on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
. I don't imagine they even start by trying to onsight the thing; it's too tiring a way to go about it.
>
> jcm


apart from when its 8c+ onsight you mean !
johncoxmysteriously - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to lithos:

Indeed. But 8c+ is nowhere near Ondra's top grade.

jcm
Kris Devlin - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:

Absolutely incredible feat! I deffinately think that Realization could be in his sights for the OS/Flash this year.

As for the comments about Liquid Ambar and Hubble (both awsome test pieces in their own right), do folk genuinely think these will prove to be any trouble for him? The guy has onsighted 5 8c+ (One which was wet!) and flashed V14. I really cant see these troubling him, if he ever decided to go for them.

It would be interesting to hear his thoughts on violent new breed (Chilam Balam anti-style) if her ever got round to trying that...

Had to laugh at the gritstone comment. There's always one! lol
tradattack on 14 Apr 2011 - 77-76-77-166.static.unassigned.as8607.net
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC: might aswell rename the news 'what ondras done this week and a few other bits and bobs'

this guys so good its almost uncool.
TheHorroffice - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:
Pah. Pre-chalked, pre-clipped, worked moves, no blinkers. I dont think he can even claim to have climbed it at all!
Monk - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Kris Devlin:
> (In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC)
>

> It would be interesting to hear his thoughts on violent new breed (Chilam Balam anti-style) if her ever got round to trying that...
>

He had a look at it when he was in the UK last year. He commented on it somewhere I think, but didn't have a go.
Quarryboy - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Kris Devlin:

Hubble is meant to be only v13 so theoretically he could probably onsight that as well.
gritstoner - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:

How long before Adam Ondra Facts catch on?

Chuck Norris can speak braille, but Adam Ondra can climb it.
NJBrown - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC: God wanted 10 days to create the world. Ondra gave him 6
Ramblin dave - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC:
Adam Ondra doesn't tick routes, routes tick Adam Ondra.

Yeah, I can see this catching on.
A Longleat Boulderer - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Ramblin dave:

When Spider Man saw Adam Ondra, he decided to call it a day.

P.s. I hear when Adam Ondra bolts his projects, he doesn't use a drill he just uses blue tac.
Blue Straggler - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
> (In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC)
>
> I like his comment 'normal 9b' ...

I was about to say the same!
A Longleat Boulderer - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:

Started a new thread for this: to avoid hijack.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=454851
Toerag - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Max factor:
> (In reply to roddersm)
>
> does 4 tries mean 4th redpoint attempt? being a bit slow here.

4 tries actually means 4 days, somewhat of an over-exagguration by Bjorn there!
Quote Adam:-
"I can't still believe it honestly. I had tried it for three days, hard to count the attempts, since I tried a couple of times only the upper crux a few time in a row."

RupertD - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to ksjs)
>
> C'mon, you just don't speak the language. When the top boys say 4th attempt about a route like this, they mean 4th redpoint attempt. I don't imagine they even start by trying to onsight the thing; it's too tiring a way to go about it.
>


An "attempt" usually means leaving the ground, but once you've set off you can hang around on the route and practice any bits as much as you like. An attempt ends on reaching the floor again. But it's a bit of a vague term. I don't think Adam uses it to mean a redpoint after working the route for many sessions as he doesn't seem to do things that way.
RupertD - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Toerag:
> (In reply to Max factor)
> [...]
>
> 4 tries actually means 4 days, somewhat of an over-exagguration by Bjorn there!
> Quote Adam:-
> "I can't still believe it honestly. I had tried it for three days, hard to count the attempts, since I tried a couple of times only the upper crux a few time in a row."

It's an 80 odd meter route, so a single go on a rope could take a few hours. He may have only had one attempt per day.
jacobjlloyd - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC: However many tries, this was an astonishingly quick ascent! I get the impression that even AO himself hasn't yet grasped quite how good he is. My mouth has been open since this morning when I read it! Hope Sharma can make the third ascent soon - he cant be used to getting burned off like this, might want to ease into it slowly : )
Nemo - on 14 Apr 2011
From PlanetMountain, Desnivel and CzechClimbing, it sounds like it took 3 days. Apparently he got there Sunday – sounds like he spent 2 days working it, then maybe a rest day - or maybe he didn't climb Sunday? Then one dog up it on Wednesday morning, and then did it first proper redpoint go. Rumour has it that Bernabé Fernández was there to witness the ascent - along with 30 other people - no controversy this time!!! But also sounds like Sharma couldn’t go in the end. And the final redpoint took about half an hour – 80m is a LONG way…

Amusingly, according to Desnivel, after lunch he then onsighted La Rubia (8c+) and Queimada (8b+) – seems like he’s upped the bar so much that no one else has even bothered to report these.

And Ethan Pringle’s comments on his blog perhaps put some of those onsights the other week into perspective. I think a few people probably thought that because they were in Spain, they were graded a bit soft – and probably a one or two were. But here is what Ethan had to say about Blanquita (the one Ondra thought was the hardest of the bunch):

“Blanquita is a route I tried in Oliana about seven times and fell from this puta slab crux five of those times. It’s rated 8c+ but if it had the 9a grade I wouldn’t argue. There are many involved and difficult sequences and while there is a good rest before the final boulder problem, it’s still damn hard for me even when I just pull on and do it after a rest. Two weeks ago Adam Ondra onsighted this route. ONSIGHTED!!! It’s hard to imagine onsighting a route like this that would be so easy to **** up, let alone climb on your first try without falling… anyway, it’s just mindboggling impressive.“

Anyway, after a long period with not much increase in the top redpoint grade, I think it’s not going to be long before we see the first 9c. And ridiculous as it sounds, I think 10a is possible within the decade if Ondra stays psyched. And the routes really are out there – high quality routes in large numbers all over the place in Spain. The future of sport climbing is very bright. As Ondra says on PlanetMountain:

“The potential here in Andalusia is amazing, it seems like there is even more to do here than in Catalonia! It's incredible, the cliffs are so massive, some haven't even been bolted. I don't think I'll get bored!”

Whereas in bouldering, whilst there are a few uber hard projects dotted around, I think the potential is much more limited. There will undoubtedly be some, but IMO the rock suitable for large numbers of high quality Font 9As just isn’t there…
Micky J - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Quarryboy: What a bullshit comment rubbing Sharmas face in it ! im sure he has nothing but respect for Chris who is much older still awesome and put the sport where it is .
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to death drop:
> (In reply to Quarryboy) What a bullshit comment rubbing Sharmas face in it ! im sure he has nothing but respect for Chris who is much older still awesome and put the sport where it is .


+1. Needless.

to the thread- astonishing stuff. truely astonishing.
Quarryboy - on 14 Apr 2011
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Quarryboy:

from the article you link, quoting Nalle Hukkataival:

"Chris's point of view is very understandable and although I am against red-tagging, I respected his wish.My intention is not to wage war with anyone or make anyone feel bad, I just want to climb and have fun.

This was not the end of the world for me and there's so much good climbing in Catalunya, that you're never going to run out of routes to try."

if the person concerned didn't have a problem with Chris Sharma over this, why would you...?
A Longleat Boulderer - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs and death drop:

FFS, leave the guy alone.
Micky J - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Quarryboy: And your point is ?
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:

ah, i see what you're getting at.

and i dont want this thread to be diverted into a pointless argument

the climb the thread is reporting deserves better, lets stick to that

cheers
gregor
Alex Mason - on 14 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC: Amazing, Ondraa truly is the next big thing, hes gonna taake things above and beyond for sure.
Morgan Woods - on 15 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC: Geat news but talk on here about what he should therefore come and do on grit is absurd.
crabduck on 15 Apr 2011
In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC: Apologies if this has been posted already, another link with an interview and a bit more about the climb: http://www.planetmountain.com/english/News/shownews1.lasso?l=2&keyid=38067
catt on 15 Apr 2011
In reply to Morgan Woods:
> (In reply to Björn Pohl - UKC) Geat news but talk on here about what he should therefore come and do on grit is absurd.

Completely agree. Grit-centric parochialism reigns once more on these forums!

ads.ukclimbing.com
In reply to Morgan Woods:
> but talk on here about what he should therefore come and do on grit is absurd.

There was only one suggestion, and I don't think it was particularly serious.

BTW, if this route is 80 mtrs, how do you get down from the top? And secondly - what are the ethics of long routes/big grades? There are alpine routes with multiple very hard pitches, but if you do, say, and 8b pitch and then 8c pitch together with an 80 mtr rope, can you say its an 8c+ or 9a pitch? Or the reverse - why isn't Chilam Balam a two pitch route?
JLS on 15 Apr 2011
In reply to TobyA:

>"why isn't Chilam Balam a two pitch route?"

When you've scraped out the last morsel of strength gains form the peanut butter jar of life, all you can do is spread your strength thinner on the bread of limestone.
Jubjab - on 15 Apr 2011
In reply to TobyA:
> BTW, if this route is 80 mtrs, how do you get down from the top? And secondly - what are the ethics of long routes/big grades? There are alpine routes with multiple very hard pitches, but if you do, say, and 8b pitch and then 8c pitch together with an 80 mtr rope, can you say its an 8c+ or 9a pitch? Or the reverse - why isn't Chilam Balam a two pitch route?

Just guessing here, but the route traverses a lot to the left (see pic here: http://novebi.ning.com/group/villanuevadelrosario/forum/topics/chilam-balam), so it might only be 30 meters from the ground at the anchors. So a 100+ meters rope might be enough.

As for not being two pitches, I guess the idea is that if there isn't a reasonable belay stance anywhere, it is better style to not put in "artificial" hanging belays.
HarryB - on 16 Apr 2011
In reply to Jubjab:

or he could just top out?
stp - on 16 Apr 2011
In reply to roddersm:

> After that he's done it all and he's only 18! I've never seen anything like it, has there ever been anyone so far ahead of the pack?

Yes. Jerry Moffatt.
stp - on 16 Apr 2011
In reply to TobyA:

> but if you do, say, and 8b pitch and then 8c pitch together with an 80 mtr rope, can you say its an 8c+ or 9a pitch?

I don't think you can be that formulaic by simply adding two grades together and always getting the same answer. One variable will be what rests, if any, are like. For instance if there was a hands off at the belay then the linked route would be barely harder than the hardest pitch (just a bit more rope weight) - and that assumes the hardest pitch is the second one.


> Or the reverse - why isn't Chilam Balam a two pitch route?

A good climbing ethic in France and presumably Spain too is to end routes at a natural rest point. Not always a hands off but usually big bucket, sudden drop in steepness/difficulty etc. I presume there's nothing like that on this route.
Alun - on 16 Apr 2011
In reply to JLS:
> When you've scraped out the last morsel of strength gains form the peanut butter jar of life, all you can do is spread your strength thinner on the bread of limestone.

lol!
@ndyM@rsh@ll - on 16 Apr 2011
In reply to TobyA: The only reason absolutely everything isn't a one pitch route is because it's not feasible, when it IS feasible why would you do any different?

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