UKC

Alderley Cliff

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 RD 10 May 2011
I'd not been to the cliff for many many years but thought I try it again at the weekend.
The crag is getting to be a real mess with many routes disapearing into the moss.
My comments would be:
(1) All the routes should have bolt belays installed at the top to avoid using the trees and scrambling over the mud.
(2) The overgrown routes should be cleaned and bolted. This way the traffic can be spread across the routes and the place made popular.
(3) The nettles need sorting out with a does of weedkiller.

As a crag owned by the BMC it should be much better managed than it is at present.
PS. I'm more that comfortable for any of my new routes to be bolted.

RD
 ChrisHolloway1 10 May 2011
In reply to RD: I agree, the place was a bit of a dump last time I was there, nice crag though, Nettlerash was a cracking route...
 Jon Stewart 10 May 2011
In reply to RD: For whatever reason, I think bolting (some of) that place would be a good idea.
 mark20 10 May 2011
In reply to RD:
Assuming you are talking of the same Aldery as I am, just south of Buxton? then I have been there twice over the last couple of years, it's an excellent crag, especially for those who wish to climb some nice limestone at a reasonable grade. However I disagree with you about bolting
1) We abbed off trees which had fixed abseil points, which was no problem at all. If these have been removed then they should be replaced, there is no need for bolted belays.
2) The routes we climbed were fairly clean, especially compared to most Peak Limestone, the worst part was trampling the nettles to get to some of them. No bolting on routes necessary.
3) I agree some sort of path needs to be hacked out, and with regular traffic should be fine. A bit of weedkiller shouldn't do too much damage though?

Mark


We did a big crag bash last November and are planning on heading back in the next month or so with ab ropes and stiff brushes to de-moss some of the routes less travelled . The base of the crag is a lot better than it was this time last year and we are planning on keeping it so. If anyone wants to be notified when we are doing the next clean up then PM me and I will keep you informed. Its a lovely little crag and I dont see the need for bolt belays....

the main problem is the route down.... its so awful most people ab off the top, meaning the path gets worse, which means more people ab off the the top
 Dan Lane 10 May 2011
In reply to mark20:

Don't worry Mark, I'm helping to write the crag up for the new BMC limestone guidebook series. All of the abseil points will be replaced if needed, i have some nice new 10mm static rope and a few mallions at home ready and waiting to be placed.

I agree that most of the routes are cleaned, although there used to be a fair few more if you look at the 1987 definitive guidebook. I think there is a plan to clean all of the routes before publication, which would include re-establishing some of the paths.

A better person to speak to is 'Moff' as she is writing it up, i'm just helping.

Dan
 mark20 10 May 2011
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC):
If safe abseil points are in place then people abbing isn't much of a problem?
In reply to mark20:

I think abbing off trees when they haven't got tat on them should be discouraged when the walk down is so short.... just needs tidying up and maybe the fence improving
 mlmatt 11 May 2011
In reply to RD:

I've been there in the last year and found that there was plenty to do without the need for excessive gardening. As for placing bolt lower offs, I really don't think that it is appropriate. For starters there are perfectly good lower-offs (in the form of 11m static tied around trees with mallions) placed at intervals along the cliff. These can all be tested before you commit to them. Failing that you can always walk-off, and back and round.

I'll admit that maybe some cleaning up of the excess vegetation might be in order, but bolt lower-offs is a step too far.
 petellis 11 May 2011
In reply to RD:

When I was there recently the popular routes seemed fine but the place seems to be suffering from a bit of Rockfax-itis. I.E the routes not in the Rockfax selective are filthy. Hopefuly Craggsy will have enough room to put all the routes in his new Peak Slime and they'll all be in the new BMC definitive which should help.

Solution 2 that you suggest: "(2) The overgrown routes should be cleaned and bolted. This way the traffic can be spread across the routes and the place made popular" is completely uncessary and totaly out of order! The Peak is really short on quality low grade trad, bolts would wreck this place!!

Only other thing was some of the tat was looking a bit mangy but thats not so hard to sort out.
 tlm 11 May 2011
In reply to RD:

I would be quite interested in knowing what made you think that bolts would be a good idea?
 GrahamD 11 May 2011
In reply to RD:

The fundamental problem with the unpopular routes is the chossy rock. Bolts aren't going to solve that problem. The best lines will always be the ones that are now clean and there is no justification whatsoever in bolting those.
 pec 11 May 2011
In reply to RD: I can't see any need for bolts there, its a popular crag already. It isn't the need for bolts which is stopping people climbing the unpopular routes, they just need cleaning.
The abseil anchors are fine. As they are in situ they get used rather than the trees directly so the trees aren't damaged. Anyway, the trees seem more solid than the rock at the top of the routes.
 EeeByGum 12 May 2011
In reply to RD: Are you talking about Alderley Edge
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=3102
or Aldery Cliff
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=150
The latter being an excellent venue.
 Offwidth 12 May 2011
In reply to EeeByGum:

lol.
In reply to EeeByGum:

worrying you were the first person to notice that
 Nic DW 14 May 2011
Why replace nakard tat with more tat to end up a mess? Metal chains (with flexible plastic pipe) to protect the trees is a better long term solution! Tat will just wear out again and be backed up by every man and his dog and make a mess.

Don't know the crag at all, but don't think any natural lines should be bolted. No strong views on lower-offs...
OP RD 15 May 2011
In reply to RD: Just so everyone's aware it's the BMC owned crag north of Buxton.
This is not a suggestion to bolt all the routes but possibly some of the looser and dirty climbs.
I would estimate that half of the routes are never climbed and of these 2/3 are too dirty to be climbed anymore. Some are completely hidden my large lumps of moss. If there's a good tree at the top with a chain then clearly a bolt belay isn't needed. But on other routes a bolt belay just below the top makes sense in my mind and avoids a potentially dangerous scramble up mud and grass.
For these routes to get so dirty no one can want to climb them as a trad route. Compare these lines with all the bolted quarries where some really crap lines are bolted and regularly climbed.
I added two new routes to the left side of the crag a long time ago and both look like they've not been climbed since. I actually do new routes for other people to climb. with modern sport climbing less people want to climb trad and I doubt anyone would consider spending a few hours cleaning these two lines first.
 Offwidth 15 May 2011
In reply to RD: Alderley is due a clean. All lines would normally be included unless there are good enviromental reasons not to. More people climb the obscure lines than you might think. However, sometimes some easy limestone routes grow back so fast you have to question if they are worth fighting for.
 blurty 15 May 2011
In reply to RD:
> (In reply to RD) Just so everyone's aware it's the BMC owned crag north of Buxton.

South of Buxton, at Earl Sterndale
 Coel Hellier 15 May 2011
In reply to RD:

> This is not a suggestion to bolt all the routes but possibly some of the looser and dirty climbs.

I'm not keen on having half the climbs at a crag trad and half bolted sport, to me the ambiance and vibes are all wrong; I prefer a crag to be one or the other, and to approach it in that frame of mind.

If it's a trad crag where people go and enjoy the better routes, does it matter if some mediocre and grotty routes are never done and return to nature?
 Dave Garnett 15 May 2011
In reply to RD:

I don't see what the popularity of a route has to do with whether it should be bolted or not. This a traditional crag (south of Buxton, BTW) with some nice easy to middle grade limestone climbing (a rarity in itself) and no shortage of natural protection or belays.

The highly dubious claim that fewer people want to climb trad is the second worst possible argument for bolting anything. The worst of course being that you don't think your new routes have yet achieved the classic status they undoubtedly deserve.

As it happens, I'm in favour of bolted lower-offs to protect sensitive cliff-tops where this is appropriate and there are no suitable natural alternatives. I don't think either is true in this case. And if the minimal effort required to fix a few slings is enough to prevent the crag degenerating into a mass top-roping venue, that would be a good thing too.
 Danzig 15 May 2011
In reply to Coel Hellier: Why don't we just arrange a meet & crag clean? Good excuse to get the BBQ out and assess/discuss onsite. I've never used the path as a route off (never been able to see it!), have always ab'd off and admittedly the tat in places is kak and the whole left hand side of the cliff is hard to get to and decidedly chossy these days. Just one point to mention is that some of the trees near the road wall were planted in memorium to some past climbers, so some care will be needed if any serious gardening is done.
In reply to Danzig:

As said earlier in the thread, buxtonMC did an aggressive clearing at the base of the crag this year and within the next couple of months a route clean of the now mossy/overgrown but good routes is going to be done.... if you want to be informed of when this will be let me know with a PM.

Bacon butties and a steady supply of tea will be provided... maybe even CAKE!
 petellis 16 May 2011
In reply to RD:

You are tangling up 2 ideas here and they need to be separated.

1) You want lower offs at the crag:

I can't think of any of the 10 or so routes I've done here (and there aren't that many really) actually being dangerous becasue of the topout. Which ones do you think need lower offs?

2) You want a solution to some of the routes being under traffic-ed and dirty:

I'll repeat what I said further up the thread - the routes in the Rockfax guide are always clean. When the new rockfax and BMC definitives come out they will most likely have all the routes in and this should keep some of the other lines clean. Lets try that before getting the drills out. If they are really crap then lets let them rot.

I don't think you doing new routes for other people should play any part in it and I certainly don't think we need more crap easy sport climbing in this country.
 Offwidth 22 May 2011
In reply to petellis:

Went yesterday and was pleasantly surprised how clean the lower tier main lines were given the spring growth. The upper tier neeeds some work and watch out for a loose block on Central Arete on this.

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