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I've got a little project at the moment, which is an old aid route with four bolt holes in it (bolts missing) and it doesn't have any other gear.
I've heard of removable bolts, those camp bolt hole cam things and tiny tricams, but thought I'd open it up to UKC for the best suggestion for protecting it and whether using the holes is ethical at all.
I know of a couple of unclimbed lines which have aid bolts already in and it seems a bit of a weird thing for a trad route- are there any examples of sandstone/grit being climbed on old aid bolts- maybe something in the burbage quarries?
I've heard of removable bolts, those camp bolt hole cam things and tiny tricams, but thought I'd open it up to UKC for the best suggestion for protecting it and whether using the holes is ethical at all.
I know of a couple of unclimbed lines which have aid bolts already in and it seems a bit of a weird thing for a trad route- are there any examples of sandstone/grit being climbed on old aid bolts- maybe something in the burbage quarries?
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Hey Franco, on the direttisama on Cima Grande there were some bolts placed in and wrapped with cigarette packet card to make them tighter. Maybe do the same, no damage and if a long enough sling is tied round the head it may hold.
Hey Franco, on the direttisama on Cima Grande there were some bolts placed in and wrapped with cigarette packet card to make them tighter. Maybe do the same, no damage and if a long enough sling is tied round the head it may hold.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Seems fair game to use the holes for gear. No different to the peg scars at Millstone etc.
Find a suitably sized ordinary bolt, simply insert and tie off with a sling? Might hold if the hole is deep enough but may well pull out if there's much outward pull - adding a bit of spice!
Seems fair game to use the holes for gear. No different to the peg scars at Millstone etc.
Find a suitably sized ordinary bolt, simply insert and tie off with a sling? Might hold if the hole is deep enough but may well pull out if there's much outward pull - adding a bit of spice!
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Hey Franco, good to hear you are back to contemplating madness once again. There was some specific gear for bolt holes, like a slider/bolo nut type thing but specifically for bolt holes. I recall them having a poor reputaion in holding power but that may be down to the hole its in. i saw a web page once about them but I wouldn't know where to begin looking to find it again. An alternative is like sutty says, packed out pins. Isn't that standard gear for the brail trail? I would say in my own world that ethically it isn't the cleanest but, as the bolt holes are there for a former aid route then its clean enough for a FFA and perhaps can be compared with placing offsets in peg scars on other former aid routes?
I hope someone pops up with that link for you, have fun working the route
Hey Franco, good to hear you are back to contemplating madness once again. There was some specific gear for bolt holes, like a slider/bolo nut type thing but specifically for bolt holes. I recall them having a poor reputaion in holding power but that may be down to the hole its in. i saw a web page once about them but I wouldn't know where to begin looking to find it again. An alternative is like sutty says, packed out pins. Isn't that standard gear for the brail trail? I would say in my own world that ethically it isn't the cleanest but, as the bolt holes are there for a former aid route then its clean enough for a FFA and perhaps can be compared with placing offsets in peg scars on other former aid routes?
I hope someone pops up with that link for you, have fun working the route
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Regarding the ethics, if there really are no other placements then why not use the bolt holes. If nothing else it's a step purer than when it was bolted. By the sounds of it, it's either that or free solo it!
Regarding the ethics, if there really are no other placements then why not use the bolt holes. If nothing else it's a step purer than when it was bolted. By the sounds of it, it's either that or free solo it!
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Been having a browse (bored an that) and there's a few things here that were in the right area http://www.crystalcanyons.net/Pages/TechNotes/RemovableBolts.shtm
not sure if any of that will do the job but might give you a few ideas for pro solutions.
Been having a browse (bored an that) and there's a few things here that were in the right area http://www.crystalcanyons.net/Pages/TechNotes/RemovableBolts.shtm
not sure if any of that will do the job but might give you a few ideas for pro solutions.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
I've used removable bolts, but I drilled the holes so knew gear was exactly right and would work. There are videos online of people taking 50 footers on removable bolts but it'd examine the placements on abseil (assuming you're headpointing) before placing on lead.
I've used removable bolts, but I drilled the holes so knew gear was exactly right and would work. There are videos online of people taking 50 footers on removable bolts but it'd examine the placements on abseil (assuming you're headpointing) before placing on lead.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Actually these might do the job a bit better:
http://www.climbtech.com/products/removable-anchors
looks like they can be placed on lead easily which helps your ethics concerns a bit I suppose.
Joe Kinder speaks highly of them on his blog www.joekindkid.com/?p=3713
There's also a vid on YouTube, of the company's co-founder taking a 50 footer onto one just to prove a point. Top man!
Actually these might do the job a bit better:
http://www.climbtech.com/products/removable-anchors
looks like they can be placed on lead easily which helps your ethics concerns a bit I suppose.
Joe Kinder speaks highly of them on his blog www.joekindkid.com/?p=3713
There's also a vid on YouTube, of the company's co-founder taking a 50 footer onto one just to prove a point. Top man!
In reply to Dave 88:
They are the babies i was hinting at, tailor made but they aint no number 11 hex eh?!
I read a discussion on them somewhere, supertopo perhaps?
> (In reply to Franco Cookson)
They are the babies i was hinting at, tailor made but they aint no number 11 hex eh?!
I read a discussion on them somewhere, supertopo perhaps?
In reply to Franco Cookson:
You don't mention how deep the holes are but I suspect not very. I'd also reckon that they'd be something like 8mm diameter, correct?
If so the your options are limited as many of the tricks used in old shot holes won't work as you won't have the depth, things like a wire doubled over on itself or tricams. My first thought would be narrow tipped skyhooks with a bit of blutack to hold them in place. Then maybe dowels in the manner Sutty describes.
Hope you've recovered from your fall.
ALC
You don't mention how deep the holes are but I suspect not very. I'd also reckon that they'd be something like 8mm diameter, correct?
If so the your options are limited as many of the tricks used in old shot holes won't work as you won't have the depth, things like a wire doubled over on itself or tricams. My first thought would be narrow tipped skyhooks with a bit of blutack to hold them in place. Then maybe dowels in the manner Sutty describes.
Hope you've recovered from your fall.
ALC
In reply to Franco Cookson: You could put a bolt in the holes! More seriously, even the tiny tricams wouldn't fit in a bolt hole I don't think, they are used in shot holes (drilled for putting explosive charges down and much, much bigger).
In reply to Franco Cookson:
you could always do the nails from the hardware store padded out with tape ala hard grit / braile trail.
you could always do the nails from the hardware store padded out with tape ala hard grit / braile trail.
In reply to Franco Cookson: You could get some studs:-
http://www.bolt-products.com/StainlessSteelPitons.htm
or make your own. The smallest (white) tricams are really small, but looking at the camp website they only go down to 16mm.
With reference to Master's Edge, wasn't a device called an amigo used in the shotholes?
http://www.bolt-products.com/StainlessSteelPitons.htm
or make your own. The smallest (white) tricams are really small, but looking at the camp website they only go down to 16mm.
With reference to Master's Edge, wasn't a device called an amigo used in the shotholes?
In reply to Franco Cookson:
How deep are they? If they're a couple of inches deep in good rock you could simply hand fit a slightly undersize high tensile bolt (wrapped in tape if need be) and tie it off.
The ethics are up to you, the holes are there, you can use them for fingers/gear, ignore them or fill them in. Most of the Millstone/Baildon/Caley/Burbage bolts/holes have been left alone and are occasionally used for runners/holds.
jk
How deep are they? If they're a couple of inches deep in good rock you could simply hand fit a slightly undersize high tensile bolt (wrapped in tape if need be) and tie it off.
The ethics are up to you, the holes are there, you can use them for fingers/gear, ignore them or fill them in. Most of the Millstone/Baildon/Caley/Burbage bolts/holes have been left alone and are occasionally used for runners/holds.
jk
In reply to TobyA:
I have a small tricam that nearly fits in the hole and I know there are some camp things that are smaller, so maybe there's something that fits. I haven't measure the holes, but they're third finger sized- perhaps around 8mm.
I'm genuinely surprised by the excellent response- some good ideas there, although most of the solutions don't seem very good with outward force, which could be a problem with an overhanging wall. The other issue is that I need all but one hole for hand holds, so which ever solution I chose needs to be bomber by it's self.
Does anyone fancy lending me a removable cam.....?
> (In reply to Franco Cookson) You could put a bolt in the holes! More seriously, even the tiny tricams wouldn't fit in a bolt hole I don't think, they are used in shot holes (drilled for putting explosive charges down and much, much bigger).
I have a small tricam that nearly fits in the hole and I know there are some camp things that are smaller, so maybe there's something that fits. I haven't measure the holes, but they're third finger sized- perhaps around 8mm.
I'm genuinely surprised by the excellent response- some good ideas there, although most of the solutions don't seem very good with outward force, which could be a problem with an overhanging wall. The other issue is that I need all but one hole for hand holds, so which ever solution I chose needs to be bomber by it's self.
Does anyone fancy lending me a removable cam.....?
In reply to Franco Cookson:
You must have some pretty skinny fingers Franco! Even my little finger is more like 12mm, if you can get your fingernails of your front two into the holes they're probably in the 12-16mm range.
You could try making a soft expanding bolt. Tightening a nut/bolt through a length of rubber hose expands the diameter, there are loads of different base diameter high pressure fuel hoses available that are tough as hell, if the holes are big enough for fingers then something like that would take some outward pull (you'd have to determine how much and you'd be looking at a skinny bolt).
A hand placed bolt that protrudes some way out of the wall before you tie it off will have some camming action and will withstand some outward pull. It'll also exert a huge pressure on the lower lip of the hole (enough to blow it out?) and you'll bend all but the toughest of bolts. Might be worth a try but do test it carefully first!
jk
You must have some pretty skinny fingers Franco! Even my little finger is more like 12mm, if you can get your fingernails of your front two into the holes they're probably in the 12-16mm range.
You could try making a soft expanding bolt. Tightening a nut/bolt through a length of rubber hose expands the diameter, there are loads of different base diameter high pressure fuel hoses available that are tough as hell, if the holes are big enough for fingers then something like that would take some outward pull (you'd have to determine how much and you'd be looking at a skinny bolt).
A hand placed bolt that protrudes some way out of the wall before you tie it off will have some camming action and will withstand some outward pull. It'll also exert a huge pressure on the lower lip of the hole (enough to blow it out?) and you'll bend all but the toughest of bolts. Might be worth a try but do test it carefully first!
jk
In reply to jkarran:
Yeh, I just measured the hole in my roof that fits exactly the same as the project and it's more like 16mm! I'm such a fool, unused to metric measurements..
Yeh, I just measured the hole in my roof that fits exactly the same as the project and it's more like 16mm! I'm such a fool, unused to metric measurements..
In reply to Franco Cookson: I did something at Rivelin recently that had an old bolt hole. Managed to use 2 small nuts... put one in first, then the other, then pulled the first to cam against second. It might have held.
In reply to Franco Cookson: That's huge for a bolt hole, but in that case you might get one of the diddy tricams in, although whether it works is another matter and the breaking strain on them isn't much. From my review: "The other two tricams I was sent to test are their new mini ones the 0.25 and the toylike 0.125 is rated at 3 KNs in active and only 2 KNs in passive mode; the 0.25 is rated at 5 and 3 KNs respectively. They probably have their role as vital runners on a few chop routes, but anyone who wants to do those routes probably won't need to be reading this review and will know what a Screamer is." http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=1366
In reply to Franco Cookson: Wouldn't this do it
http://www.rockrun.com/products/Camp-Tri-Cam-Size-0.25.html
40mm is quite shallow though.
http://www.rockrun.com/products/Camp-Tri-Cam-Size-0.25.html
40mm is quite shallow though.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
That's not so good! You could definitely make something stick in it but there'll be some messing about with tools needed. How's your DiY?
Would a cut down BD grappling hook maybe fit, grind it just right and you'd have to knock it in with the heel of your hand. Simpler job but maybe less secure.
jk
> I'm going to guess that it's 40mm deep as well.
That's not so good! You could definitely make something stick in it but there'll be some messing about with tools needed. How's your DiY?
Would a cut down BD grappling hook maybe fit, grind it just right and you'd have to knock it in with the heel of your hand. Simpler job but maybe less secure.
jk
In reply to TobyA: Cheers for that. The crux isn't at a terribly dangerous height, so if an ok tricam took most of the fall before ripping you'd probably be ok anyway. It looks like the 0.25 would fit... Hmmmm, might have to go have a look in the shops
In reply to Franco Cookson:
They sound like the holes you cut for Petzl 8mm 'spits', the self cutting hand drilled inserts that you hammer in lock in place by pounding them onto a little cone. Maybe the route was drilled but never bolted since the inserts tend to stay where they're placed!
jk
They sound like the holes you cut for Petzl 8mm 'spits', the self cutting hand drilled inserts that you hammer in lock in place by pounding them onto a little cone. Maybe the route was drilled but never bolted since the inserts tend to stay where they're placed!
jk
In reply to jkarran:
Whatever they were, they were placed more than 30 years ago and my guess is that the route was never climbed, due to the holes ending by a nails move that couldn't be top-stepped past. Most likely someone's weekend handdrilled project, that they never got round to actually bolting. They could be a little deeper, but there's a lot of crap in them that needs prodding out.
Whatever they were, they were placed more than 30 years ago and my guess is that the route was never climbed, due to the holes ending by a nails move that couldn't be top-stepped past. Most likely someone's weekend handdrilled project, that they never got round to actually bolting. They could be a little deeper, but there's a lot of crap in them that needs prodding out.
In reply to Franco Cookson: Get yourself a 8mm hand drill, finish of the holes and place the bolts. Make a good sport route people may want to do...
Andy F
Andy F
In reply to Franco Cookson:
If they are 40mm deep then the cammed wire trick may well do, this would also let you use the holes for fingers as the wire is out of the way.
Find a Rock/Wallnut that fits in to the hole with a little to spare either side. Now bend the nut back on the wire and push the "elbow" in to the hole with the two parts of the wire loop coming out of the top and with the top part of the nut against the floor of the hole. Give the wire loop a tug to seat the nut. It may take a bit of practice to do. It's hard to describe without pictures but I'm sure someone else will be along to help!
ALC
If they are 40mm deep then the cammed wire trick may well do, this would also let you use the holes for fingers as the wire is out of the way.
Find a Rock/Wallnut that fits in to the hole with a little to spare either side. Now bend the nut back on the wire and push the "elbow" in to the hole with the two parts of the wire loop coming out of the top and with the top part of the nut against the floor of the hole. Give the wire loop a tug to seat the nut. It may take a bit of practice to do. It's hard to describe without pictures but I'm sure someone else will be along to help!
ALC
In reply to a lakeland climber:
I know what you mean, although you'd be trusting something around a size 1 nut and you'd have to place it in a really tenuous position.
I know what you mean, although you'd be trusting something around a size 1 nut and you'd have to place it in a really tenuous position.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Maybe pre-place, not perfect ethically but that doesn't seem to be a problem these days At least if you state this then you are being honest.
ALC
Maybe pre-place, not perfect ethically but that doesn't seem to be a problem these days At least if you state this then you are being honest.
ALC
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Alas, you need all the pockets for the moves- you'd have to place the gear after doing a move- hanging off a higher mono.
Alas, you need all the pockets for the moves- you'd have to place the gear after doing a move- hanging off a higher mono.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Probably best to wait a little while. You know how pockets tend to weather and get bigger quite naturally until cams fit them... think Cornwall.
Probably best to wait a little while. You know how pockets tend to weather and get bigger quite naturally until cams fit them... think Cornwall.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
That post proves otherwise.
Andy F
> (In reply to andy farnell)
>
> I'm not a nob thanks.
>
> I'm not a nob thanks.
That post proves otherwise.
Andy F
In reply to Franco Cookson:
>"I've got a little project at the moment"
Perhaps this is just one of those climbs that you either solo or top rope and to contemplate any other style is just p!ss!ng about.
I'm sure Messner would say you are just looking for technology as an accomplice to murder.
>"I've got a little project at the moment"
Perhaps this is just one of those climbs that you either solo or top rope and to contemplate any other style is just p!ss!ng about.
I'm sure Messner would say you are just looking for technology as an accomplice to murder.
In reply to JLS:
I reckon you might be right, but I was quite interested in what would be the best way to protect it if I wanted to. As it is, any protection seems like it might not be worth the extra pump placing it...
I reckon you might be right, but I was quite interested in what would be the best way to protect it if I wanted to. As it is, any protection seems like it might not be worth the extra pump placing it...
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Have you got any access to workshop facilities? You could use one of the deforming rubber bungs that JK was talking about, with a draw bolt through the middle of it pivoting on a cam action lever with a hanger behind it. It would be quick to place, just put it in the hole and snap the lever down. Its a bit difficult to describe but would be easy to draw and make.
Have you got any access to workshop facilities? You could use one of the deforming rubber bungs that JK was talking about, with a draw bolt through the middle of it pivoting on a cam action lever with a hanger behind it. It would be quick to place, just put it in the hole and snap the lever down. Its a bit difficult to describe but would be easy to draw and make.
In reply to Franco Cookson: I see you are now learning how to be slightly abusive and not get banned. It won't last...
Andy F
Andy F
In reply to teflonpete:
>"with a draw bolt through the middle of it pivoting on a cam action lever with a hanger behind it"
Sounds like a modified bike wheel quick realease skewer with bolt hanger on it... I'm not sure if that would be murdering the impossible or suicide.
>"with a draw bolt through the middle of it pivoting on a cam action lever with a hanger behind it"
Sounds like a modified bike wheel quick realease skewer with bolt hanger on it... I'm not sure if that would be murdering the impossible or suicide.
In reply to JLS:
More like this...
http://image.become.com/imageserver/s6/784374136-150-150-5-32/msc-internati...
They do industrial versions for plugging pipes and are really solid if you get the right degree of expansion for the hole diameter.
More like this...
http://image.become.com/imageserver/s6/784374136-150-150-5-32/msc-internati...
They do industrial versions for plugging pipes and are really solid if you get the right degree of expansion for the hole diameter.
In reply to Reach>Talent: Looks like a teletubbie's genitalia.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
what mkean said, kind of like one of those wine bottle stopper things, if you can get a strong one and work out how to tie it off or attach a hanger.
what mkean said, kind of like one of those wine bottle stopper things, if you can get a strong one and work out how to tie it off or attach a hanger.
In reply to Reach>Talent:
>"More like this"
Yeah, I've got one of those but had never considered it as part of my rack.
Hopefully the industrial version looks a bit more... sturdy.
>"More like this"
Yeah, I've got one of those but had never considered it as part of my rack.
Hopefully the industrial version looks a bit more... sturdy.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Looks like a teletubbie's genitalia.
Bloody hell, I wouldn't like to see your web browsing history!
Basically pulling on the lever rotates a cam which pulls up the bolt through the middle of a rubber tube, which in turn expands sideways gripping the inside of the bottle.
The industrial versions swap the cam for a big bolt and a wingnut.
http://knowledgepublications.com/history/images/Mechanical_Movements_Expand...
Looks like a teletubbie's genitalia.
Bloody hell, I wouldn't like to see your web browsing history!
Basically pulling on the lever rotates a cam which pulls up the bolt through the middle of a rubber tube, which in turn expands sideways gripping the inside of the bottle.
The industrial versions swap the cam for a big bolt and a wingnut.
http://knowledgepublications.com/history/images/Mechanical_Movements_Expand...
In reply to Reach>Talent:
That's the sort of nonsense I was thinking of. An hour or two on the lathe and you could knock up a working prototype out of an old 12.9 socket-head bolt. Using a bike wheel release cam would speed the whole thing along nicely
jk <wanders off to rummage through work's scrap>
> The industrial versions swap the cam for a big bolt and a wingnut.
> http://knowledgepublications.com/history/images/Mechanical_Movements_Expand...
> http://knowledgepublications.com/history/images/Mechanical_Movements_Expand...
That's the sort of nonsense I was thinking of. An hour or two on the lathe and you could knock up a working prototype out of an old 12.9 socket-head bolt. Using a bike wheel release cam would speed the whole thing along nicely
jk <wanders off to rummage through work's scrap>
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Sounds like a reasonable plan
> I might just shove a 6 inch nail in and hope for the best...
Sounds like a reasonable plan
In reply to jkarran: Let me know if you want any of your inventions testing though
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Like this;
http://www.rawlplug.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id...
Like this;
http://www.rawlplug.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id...
In reply to Franco Cookson:
We don't need to know your nightly perversions Franco
Andy F
> (In reply to jkarran)
>
> I might just shove a 6 inch nail in and hope for the best...
>
> I might just shove a 6 inch nail in and hope for the best...
We don't need to know your nightly perversions Franco
Andy F
In reply to JLS:
That sort of thing, but somewhat sturdier.
> (In reply to teflonpete)
>
> >"with a draw bolt through the middle of it pivoting on a cam action lever with a hanger behind it"
>
> Sounds like a modified bike wheel quick realease skewer with bolt hanger on it... I'm not sure if that would be murdering the impossible or suicide.
>
> >"with a draw bolt through the middle of it pivoting on a cam action lever with a hanger behind it"
>
> Sounds like a modified bike wheel quick realease skewer with bolt hanger on it... I'm not sure if that would be murdering the impossible or suicide.
That sort of thing, but somewhat sturdier.
In reply to sutty:
The strongest of those rawl fixings is supposedly good for about 100kg in blockwork, I'm sure I've placed worse gear than that but I certainly wouldn't want to have to trust it!
The strongest of those rawl fixings is supposedly good for about 100kg in blockwork, I'm sure I've placed worse gear than that but I certainly wouldn't want to have to trust it!
In reply to Franco Cookson:
So one of these...
http://images.jensonusa.com/large/hu/hu295z13135.jpg
some of these...
http://www.rawlplug.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id...
and one of these...
http://www.climbinganchors.com.au/product_images/v/414/coeur__96997_zoom.jp...
...and you have the making of something so cunning to could pin a tail on it and call it a fox.
So one of these...
http://images.jensonusa.com/large/hu/hu295z13135.jpg
some of these...
http://www.rawlplug.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id...
and one of these...
http://www.climbinganchors.com.au/product_images/v/414/coeur__96997_zoom.jp...
...and you have the making of something so cunning to could pin a tail on it and call it a fox.
In reply to JLS:
Well you could try, though it may not reliably support the weight of a fox's tail.
> ...and you have the making of something so cunning to could pin a tail on it and call it a fox.
Well you could try, though it may not reliably support the weight of a fox's tail.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
In Oz back in the 70's and 80's they used carrots. It's a hexi head bolt that you grind slightly conical at the end, then hammer into the hole. then you fix a bolt plate on it. A bit like a fixed hanger but without the expansion bolt, the hanger is removeable and if you didn't want glue the bolt in you could probably remove it without damaging the rock.
I have a few of them in my loft. Depends on the size of the drilled hole.
http://www.safercliffs.org/code/bolt_guide.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfinnecy/3100232788/in/photostream/
In Oz back in the 70's and 80's they used carrots. It's a hexi head bolt that you grind slightly conical at the end, then hammer into the hole. then you fix a bolt plate on it. A bit like a fixed hanger but without the expansion bolt, the hanger is removeable and if you didn't want glue the bolt in you could probably remove it without damaging the rock.
I have a few of them in my loft. Depends on the size of the drilled hole.
http://www.safercliffs.org/code/bolt_guide.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfinnecy/3100232788/in/photostream/
In reply to Franco Cookson:
appointment with fear at wimberry has some bolts in it, guessing they are old aid bolts as they start from underneath the overhang (which on appointment you traverse in over the top of).
i dont think the arete/prow whatever you wanna call it has been free climbed direct although i could be wrong (looks nails/impossible).
on the sandstone there are a few vertical, mega crimpy lines at pex hill that have been climbed with the use of (aid?)bolts. they look like half decent lines but would need a mega scrub down with a stiff brush.
> are there any examples of sandstone/grit being climbed on old aid bolts- maybe something in the burbage quarries?
appointment with fear at wimberry has some bolts in it, guessing they are old aid bolts as they start from underneath the overhang (which on appointment you traverse in over the top of).
i dont think the arete/prow whatever you wanna call it has been free climbed direct although i could be wrong (looks nails/impossible).
on the sandstone there are a few vertical, mega crimpy lines at pex hill that have been climbed with the use of (aid?)bolts. they look like half decent lines but would need a mega scrub down with a stiff brush.
In reply to Franco Cookson:
you could pad out a hexi 13mm bolt and use my bolt hangers if you like ? Just don't ground fall please
you could pad out a hexi 13mm bolt and use my bolt hangers if you like ? Just don't ground fall please
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Resin bolts set pretty quick and if you placed them on the lead then that would still be trad in my book. Climb up, pop in capsual, push in a bolt, shake-out for ten minutes, clip and go. Your second may need a very good nut key.
Resin bolts set pretty quick and if you placed them on the lead then that would still be trad in my book. Climb up, pop in capsual, push in a bolt, shake-out for ten minutes, clip and go. Your second may need a very good nut key.
In reply to Franco Cookson: Hay Franco, i have the same problem with a project, let me know how you get on
In reply to Adam Hocking:
Will do. Although it's on the back burner at the moment, after effectively discovering a new crag. How big are your holes?
Will do. Although it's on the back burner at the moment, after effectively discovering a new crag. How big are your holes?
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Have you tried using that traditional Scottish winter gear standby-- the Tunnock's Caramel Wafer?
Have you tried using that traditional Scottish winter gear standby-- the Tunnock's Caramel Wafer?
In reply to Franco Cookson: Would a folded nut work? I'm not talking a conventional rock but how about one of those WC half nuts on a single stem. If the hole is 15/16mm wide you could probalby get a descent sized nut in and the use a nail or something to poke it as far back as it goes?? Might be interesting getting it out though?
In reply to SGD: oops soz just read ALC's posts further up the thread
In reply to Franco Cookson:
Hey Franco,
just had a chat with a mate of mine who's got his own business and a guru on bolting. he sent me this link to pass onto you
http://www.climbtech.com/products/removable-anchors
Chris
Hey Franco,
just had a chat with a mate of mine who's got his own business and a guru on bolting. he sent me this link to pass onto you
http://www.climbtech.com/products/removable-anchors
Chris
In reply to Franco Cookson: Use a removable M8 or M10 RAWL bolt , available at all good hardware shops or a slider nut if you can source one, both are bombproof.
In reply to Franco Cookson: RAWL bolts are removable , just hand tighten the nut and vice-versa to remove. They will depend on the depth of the hole mind and won't work if they bottom out before tightening. My mate has a set of sliders from the states which are also easily removable
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