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As the title says - which drill for bolting?
Recommendations? Cheap on-line retailers?
Hilti TE6a?
Cheers,
Jack
Recommendations? Cheap on-line retailers?
Hilti TE6a?
Cheers,
Jack
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: A Hilti would do nicely, just make sure you get the 36v as a minimum.
A second battery is always worth it.
A second battery is always worth it.
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
Hi Jack,
The Hilti TE 6-A is the standard 'workhorse' drill used by many equippers in Spain and France.
However, I recently bought the newer TE 4-A22 model, which is slightly more compact and nearly 1kg lighter.
It's only 22V (as opposed to 36V for the TE 6-A) but in practice I've found it to be perfectly OK: using a good 'bit' (4 x cutting edges) I've drilled in excess of 25 10mm holes, around 120mm deep, on a single battery. Also, the batteries are so light that taking along a spare is hardly noticeable.
Maybe the holes take a few seconds longer to drill than with my older TE 6-A, but it's no big deal.
Pete.
Hi Jack,
The Hilti TE 6-A is the standard 'workhorse' drill used by many equippers in Spain and France.
However, I recently bought the newer TE 4-A22 model, which is slightly more compact and nearly 1kg lighter.
It's only 22V (as opposed to 36V for the TE 6-A) but in practice I've found it to be perfectly OK: using a good 'bit' (4 x cutting edges) I've drilled in excess of 25 10mm holes, around 120mm deep, on a single battery. Also, the batteries are so light that taking along a spare is hardly noticeable.
Maybe the holes take a few seconds longer to drill than with my older TE 6-A, but it's no big deal.
Pete.
In reply to airbournegrapefruit: Thanks. Yes, I have a fair bit of experience, and you are right that at least two batteries is pretty much essential, but wondered which model people were using, and any good deals to be had.
Was wondering between the TE6a and the TE7a.
Or another brand?
Anyone got any other tips?
Cheers.
Was wondering between the TE6a and the TE7a.
Or another brand?
Anyone got any other tips?
Cheers.
In reply to Pete O'Donovan: Pete - thanks - exactly the info I was after!
I wonder how it would stand up to granite? Which I would guess is harder to drill than limestone, which is (another guess) the rock you did your bolts in?
Thanks,
Jack
I wonder how it would stand up to granite? Which I would guess is harder to drill than limestone, which is (another guess) the rock you did your bolts in?
Thanks,
Jack
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
TE6a, that's the one Jack, no question. One of my batteries died over the winter, so I'm glad it came with two. It does up to 30 holes, with a new bit, in Vallorcine granite on a single charge (not as deep as POD's - you don't need anything more than 60mm deep here).
TE6a, that's the one Jack, no question. One of my batteries died over the winter, so I'm glad it came with two. It does up to 30 holes, with a new bit, in Vallorcine granite on a single charge (not as deep as POD's - you don't need anything more than 60mm deep here).
> I wonder how it would stand up to granite? Which I would guess is harder to drill than limestone, which is (another guess) the rock you did your bolts in?
Yep, my numbers are based on limestone placements, and you'd obviously get fewer holes in granite.
Hilti in Sheffield (and elsewhere) occasionally have 'open' days where you can go along and try out the tools. At the last one (in April this year) I put a 14mm bit into the TE 4-A and drilled 18 x 150mm holes into a concrete block, on a single battery, so I knew it was sufficient for my needs!
Look out for their next open day — perhaps you could take a piece of Granite along...
Hi Jon,
I generally use 95mm or 100mm bolts on Catalan limestone. The extra 10/20mm depth of the hole is so that (if it turns out I've put it in the wrong place) I can just welly the bolt completely inside the rock.
I generally use 95mm or 100mm bolts on Catalan limestone. The extra 10/20mm depth of the hole is so that (if it turns out I've put it in the wrong place) I can just welly the bolt completely inside the rock.
In reply to Pete O'Donovan:
Excellent - why oh why don't more people do this. Makes it so much neater to conceal an unwanted bolt.
E
> Hi Jon,
>
> I generally use 95mm or 100mm bolts on Catalan limestone. The extra 10/20mm depth of the hole is so that (if it turns out I've put it in the wrong place) I can just welly the bolt completely inside the rock.
>
> I generally use 95mm or 100mm bolts on Catalan limestone. The extra 10/20mm depth of the hole is so that (if it turns out I've put it in the wrong place) I can just welly the bolt completely inside the rock.
Excellent - why oh why don't more people do this. Makes it so much neater to conceal an unwanted bolt.
E
In reply to Enty:
Absolutely. If you want to make a really good job of it you can even add a blob of appropriately coloured exterior filler to hide the hole completely.
Pete.
> Excellent - why oh why don't more people do this. Makes it so much neater to conceal an unwanted bolt.
Absolutely. If you want to make a really good job of it you can even add a blob of appropriately coloured exterior filler to hide the hole completely.
Pete.
In reply to Enty:
I agree with POD, but for me it depends where the crag is... If it's next to the road, I drill deep as well. If I have to carry the drill - and all the crap that goes with it - for two hours, I drill just the depth I need so I get the maximum number of holes from a battery. If I make a mistake, I tighten the bolt as much as it'll go, take off the hanger then break the bolt. As it's been tightened, there's always enough depth of hole into which you can bury what's left of the bolt.
POD, have you ever had problems with a well known Spanish manufacturer's expansion bolts not tightening, and turning in the hole and therefore almost impossible to unscrew as well? Just lately, it's happened to me maybe 10% of the time. Luckily I've used nearly all of them now.
> (In reply to Pete O'Donovan)
> Excellent - why oh why don't more people do this. Makes it so much neater to conceal an unwanted bolt.
I agree with POD, but for me it depends where the crag is... If it's next to the road, I drill deep as well. If I have to carry the drill - and all the crap that goes with it - for two hours, I drill just the depth I need so I get the maximum number of holes from a battery. If I make a mistake, I tighten the bolt as much as it'll go, take off the hanger then break the bolt. As it's been tightened, there's always enough depth of hole into which you can bury what's left of the bolt.
POD, have you ever had problems with a well known Spanish manufacturer's expansion bolts not tightening, and turning in the hole and therefore almost impossible to unscrew as well? Just lately, it's happened to me maybe 10% of the time. Luckily I've used nearly all of them now.
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
Hello Jack ,
Hilti definitely the way to go go , I've used them a lot in demolition work . Could be worth trying a few tool & plant hire centres where I've bought Hilti gear from & often got second hand bargains in the past .
Worth getting to know the workshop peeps (fitters) too , I've saved small fortunes this way .
Hello Jack ,
Hilti definitely the way to go go , I've used them a lot in demolition work . Could be worth trying a few tool & plant hire centres where I've bought Hilti gear from & often got second hand bargains in the past .
Worth getting to know the workshop peeps (fitters) too , I've saved small fortunes this way .
In reply to jon:
I agree.
It's also pretty easy to break a bolt off just slightly deeper than the rock surface - just takes a bit of time. Shame the French bolters near Buis haven't learnt the technique.
E
I agree.
It's also pretty easy to break a bolt off just slightly deeper than the rock surface - just takes a bit of time. Shame the French bolters near Buis haven't learnt the technique.
E
> POD, have you ever had problems with a well known Spanish manufacturer's expansion bolts not tightening, and turning in the hole and therefore almost impossible to unscrew as well? Just lately, it's happened to me maybe 10% of the time. Luckily I've used nearly all of them now.
If you're talking about the well-known Spanish manufacturer who also produce (excellent) hangers and lower-off units, then the problem with their expansion bolts often not tightening is well known here in Catalunya.
I and most other equippers I know use 'Spit' bolts: not only are they cheaper than the 'other' brand, but invariably (rock permitting) tighten after just a couple of turns and feel reassuringly solid.
Pete.
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
Forget granite. What we really want to know is how well it works on grit.
Forget granite. What we really want to know is how well it works on grit.
In reply to Pete O'Donovan:
Ah, interesting. I asked them about it and at first they denied it. Then sometime later 20 bolts arrived in the post with a note to say that they'd changed something. The bolts looked identical. And they still don't tighten. Yes, all their other stuff is fantastic and I use it. I do the same now as you, and just buy Raumer bolts and have had no problems with them.
Ah, interesting. I asked them about it and at first they denied it. Then sometime later 20 bolts arrived in the post with a note to say that they'd changed something. The bolts looked identical. And they still don't tighten. Yes, all their other stuff is fantastic and I use it. I do the same now as you, and just buy Raumer bolts and have had no problems with them.
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
I have this one up in the loft gathering dust, it served me proud in my sandstone bolting days down under
http://www.toolstop.co.uk/bosch-gbh24vs-24v-sds-plus-rotary-hammer-drill-ki...
Chris
I have this one up in the loft gathering dust, it served me proud in my sandstone bolting days down under
http://www.toolstop.co.uk/bosch-gbh24vs-24v-sds-plus-rotary-hammer-drill-ki...
Chris
In reply to chris fox:
Another vote for the GBH here - our site engineers use them as they need to be able to drill through 3ft thick old farmhouse walls made from the hardest granite in the country.
Go check out Jim Titt's site Jack, he lists a whole load of drills.
Another vote for the GBH here - our site engineers use them as they need to be able to drill through 3ft thick old farmhouse walls made from the hardest granite in the country.
Go check out Jim Titt's site Jack, he lists a whole load of drills.
In reply to chris fox:
>
Mine's 14 years old and still going strong although I don't get 30 holes anymore.
E
> (In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor)
>
Mine's 14 years old and still going strong although I don't get 30 holes anymore.
E
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
Been busy in Twll Mawr last few days drilling loads of holes!!!
I use..
http://www.toolstop.co.uk/index.php?option=shop&page=shop.product_detai...
Which has a much better battery, would recommend the extra investment, got mine second hand from flea bay/
Been busy in Twll Mawr last few days drilling loads of holes!!!
I use..
http://www.toolstop.co.uk/index.php?option=shop&page=shop.product_detai...
Which has a much better battery, would recommend the extra investment, got mine second hand from flea bay/
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
Horses for courses, like always.
Pay a shedload for a Hilti, drills fast but the battery electronics have a certain reputation! The 24V version is the better.
The 36V Makita drills well but needs a new charger every now and again and the batts are pox.
Good old GBH24, still going strong after 17 years on the original battery. Ni-Cad´s are heavy but last and last and last and l....
36V Bosch is undoubtedly the fastest driller but a real monster to hold and one handed overhead you need to be strong! I haven´t tried the newer, smaller version.
Metabo-the one I have is quality built and the slowest thing I´ve ever used!
Panasonic are probably the most universally praised but I´ve never used one.
Currently I use a 14.4V Makita for nearly everything, with 5 batteries! Brilliant for lead bolting and steep stuff. I get 7 holes per battery and its even got a light for those tricky night descents!
The Metabo stays at home.
The Bosch is the ever reliable backup.
My brothers Makita gets cursed, often and always!
If weight matters and money not then Li-ion but two or threee years is all you get, Ni-Cads seem to last for ever and Ni-Mhd sort-of in between.
And there are restrictions on carrying Li-Ion batts in aircraft since 2009.
Jim
Horses for courses, like always.
Pay a shedload for a Hilti, drills fast but the battery electronics have a certain reputation! The 24V version is the better.
The 36V Makita drills well but needs a new charger every now and again and the batts are pox.
Good old GBH24, still going strong after 17 years on the original battery. Ni-Cad´s are heavy but last and last and last and l....
36V Bosch is undoubtedly the fastest driller but a real monster to hold and one handed overhead you need to be strong! I haven´t tried the newer, smaller version.
Metabo-the one I have is quality built and the slowest thing I´ve ever used!
Panasonic are probably the most universally praised but I´ve never used one.
Currently I use a 14.4V Makita for nearly everything, with 5 batteries! Brilliant for lead bolting and steep stuff. I get 7 holes per battery and its even got a light for those tricky night descents!
The Metabo stays at home.
The Bosch is the ever reliable backup.
My brothers Makita gets cursed, often and always!
If weight matters and money not then Li-ion but two or threee years is all you get, Ni-Cads seem to last for ever and Ni-Mhd sort-of in between.
And there are restrictions on carrying Li-Ion batts in aircraft since 2009.
Jim
In reply to jimtitt: Brilliant - thanks Jim!
Excellent advice. I shall see what I come up with...!
Jack
Excellent advice. I shall see what I come up with...!
Jack
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
Come on Jack, this is really what you want: http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/verticality/anchors/anchor-accessories/rocp... You know it makes sense...
Come on Jack, this is really what you want: http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/verticality/anchors/anchor-accessories/rocp... You know it makes sense...
In reply to jon:
I watched Jean-Paul Quilici drill an anchor in Corsican granite by hand, took him 4 minutes.
I watched Jean-Paul Quilici drill an anchor in Corsican granite by hand, took him 4 minutes.
In reply to Colin Moody:
Probably used his head as a hammer. That's why he always wears that bandage on it. Must have been very soft Corsican granite too - took me half an hour here.
Probably used his head as a hammer. That's why he always wears that bandage on it. Must have been very soft Corsican granite too - took me half an hour here.
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: Just speaking of my own experience here. I made a new sport climbing areas with 20 routes between 20 - 30 meters long (Hard Sandstone) last winter (not in UK). I used glue in U bolts so 2 holes needed per bolt. I bought a Bosch GBH with 2 batteries.
I found that the batteries did not last very long. I would get 6 holes 100mm long per battery. Thats 3 bolts per battery. I found this very frustrating. It was often below 10 degrees but not always.
Anyways, in the end I found the best solution for me was I got a small generator (10kgs) and left it at the crag. This cost 60 pounds from Lidl. Got a good big work mans hammer drill. Plugged in the drill with a long cable and could drill as many holes as I wished. 1 letre of petrol got about 40 holes.
This worked for me cause I was always at the same crag, and just left my stuff there.
I found that the batteries did not last very long. I would get 6 holes 100mm long per battery. Thats 3 bolts per battery. I found this very frustrating. It was often below 10 degrees but not always.
Anyways, in the end I found the best solution for me was I got a small generator (10kgs) and left it at the crag. This cost 60 pounds from Lidl. Got a good big work mans hammer drill. Plugged in the drill with a long cable and could drill as many holes as I wished. 1 letre of petrol got about 40 holes.
This worked for me cause I was always at the same crag, and just left my stuff there.
In reply to jon:
We got to the cliff one day and Jean-Paul had only one rock boot. I led a route of 2 or 3 pitches up cracks. He jumared behind drilling by hand and fixing bolt runners.
An odd day out.
We got to the cliff one day and Jean-Paul had only one rock boot. I led a route of 2 or 3 pitches up cracks. He jumared behind drilling by hand and fixing bolt runners.
An odd day out.
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: Just started using a new drill the Bosch 36v Lithion . Been using for 7 years the Bosch 24v Anialator (about 11/12 pounds)...the new Bosch 36V is about 6.5 pounds. In sanstone we have drilled up to 45 holes 3/4"X4" holes on one charge and it still had a light to go.There is also an adapter (not Bosch) that you can slowly charge up the battery from the truck cigarette lighter.. I keep the engine running... Cost of this Lithion Bosch in the States with charger is about 253 pounds.
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor: Bye the way most of our drilling is done ground up on sight from natural stances with the drill and everything else on your back.One could use any old heavy drill for Rap bolting sport routes.
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
Another vote for the TE6a here. Mine is a good workhorse.
Another vote for the TE6a here. Mine is a good workhorse.
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
Well we use a Holman's 303 down the mine...
Well we use a Holman's 303 down the mine...
In reply to jimtitt:
Hi Jim
What is the model/number of the Makita you're using?
Enjoyed the route at San Vito by the way, thanks for the hard work. Heading back again for unfinished business.
Cheers
David
Hi Jim
What is the model/number of the Makita you're using?
Enjoyed the route at San Vito by the way, thanks for the hard work. Heading back again for unfinished business.
Cheers
David
In reply to Jack Geldard - UKC Chief Editor:
The Bosch Litheon 36V is amazing. I haven't used the Hilti, but that Bosch is superlight
The Bosch Litheon 36V is amazing. I haven't used the Hilti, but that Bosch is superlight
In reply to David Simmonite:
I´m using this one:-. http://www.angliatoolcentre.co.uk/makita-bhr162rfe-14-4v-sds-hammer-drill-p...
Nice handy tool and useful in the home, I can use it with one hand overhead all day!
Jim
I´m using this one:-. http://www.angliatoolcentre.co.uk/makita-bhr162rfe-14-4v-sds-hammer-drill-p...
Nice handy tool and useful in the home, I can use it with one hand overhead all day!
Jim
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