UKC

UKC photos - Colour Profiles

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 Sean Bell 28 Sep 2011
Uploaded a photo recently which looked fine on my Flickr and Facebook pages but became very 'wishy washy' looking when uploaded to UKC, I tried reworking it to counteract the lack of punch but it then looked too dark when uploaded after the minor tweaks.I'll try again but It has happened with a few of my shots in the past, a few mates who post have mentioned it aswell.Any thoughts photo mods? Or anyone? Is this a compression issue or something else?
 The Pylon King 28 Sep 2011
In reply to SeanB:

pretty much every pic i upload on ukc looks washed out compared to the original. no idea why.
In reply to SeanB:

I am not aware of this being a problem.

Can you link to some comparison examples?

Cheers

Alan
OP Sean Bell 28 Sep 2011
In reply to Alan James - UKC:
> (In reply to SeanB)
>
> I am not aware of this being a problem.
>
> Can you link to some comparison examples?
>
> Cheers
>
> Alan

Thanks for reply Alan

Its not a major difference but enough to be noticeable on some pix, just thought I'd throw it out there and see if anyone else felt the same. I know a friend of mine who posts a lot of images has noticed the slightly desaturated/thinner appearance of some pix after uploading aswell, so just keen to know why that should be.

Example below, not a startling difference but look at the crag/climber when switching between the two, Flickr shot seems to hold deeper blacks, overall more contrast and the colours are more vibrant(greens).This is how it looks on my screen anyhoo.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/seanbellphotography/6192544049/lightbox/

http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=183408

Any thoughts would be good

Cheers

Sean
OP Sean Bell 28 Sep 2011
In reply to SeanB:

Of course, some will argue the UKC version is more appealing.

In reply to SeanB:

I don't see a massive difference however what I do notice, which is interesting, is that if you download the UKC version then open it up in Photoshop then it is almost identical to the Flickr version. This would point to something happening when the browser displays the images rather than when the photo is uploaded.

Curious indeed. I'll let Nick know but, at the moment, I don't think it is something that we will be acting on.

Cheers
Alan
In reply to SeanB: Very interesting!

I'm going to guess that it is an ICC colour profile that is embedded in that image, which is being used by Flickr, and Photoshop, but not by UKC. Support for these colour profiles varies between browsers as well - Safari was the first to add it.

More information here:
- http://www.gballard.net/psd/go_live_page_profile/embeddedJPEGprofiles.html
 ChrisJD 28 Sep 2011
In reply to SeanB:

They look the same to me using Chrome.
In reply to Nick Smith - UKC:

Hi Guys,

If you make sure the photo you upload to UKC is using the sRGB IEC 61966-2.1 colour space then it will be displayed on UKC with the correct colour saturation. The problem is with Adobe RGB colour space images.

You can select the sRGB colour profile by checking the "Convert to sRGB" tickbox on the "Save to Web & Devices" in Photoshop or by selecting the sRGB colour space in Lightroom when exporting a jpeg.

I guess this hasn't cropped up before as most people get sRGB images from the camera. I personally use Adobe RGB on my camera, but when saving for web use, it should always be in sRGB.

Thanks, Paul.
OP Sean Bell 28 Sep 2011
In reply to ChrisJD: Im using Firefox so maybe thats the issue.
OP Sean Bell 28 Sep 2011
In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC:
> (In reply to Nick Smith - UKC)
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> If you make sure the photo you upload to UKC is using the sRGB IEC 61966-2.1 colour space then it will be displayed on UKC with the correct colour saturation. The problem is with Adobe RGB colour space images.
>
> You can select the sRGB colour profile by checking the "Convert to sRGB" tickbox on the "Save to Web & Devices" in Photoshop or by selecting the sRGB colour space in Lightroom when exporting a jpeg.
>
> I guess this hasn't cropped up before as most people get sRGB images from the camera. I personally use Adobe RGB on my camera, but when saving for web use, it should always be in sRGB.
>
> Thanks, Paul.

Cheers Paul, v.helpful!
In reply to ChrisJD:

Chrome uses the sRGB profile for both so they are both washed out.

Firefox will show the Flickr one in Adobe RGB and UKC one in sRGB.
OP Sean Bell 28 Sep 2011
In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC: Well that will be that then, everyday is a school day. Thanks.
 ChrisJD 28 Sep 2011
In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC:

They both look saturated to me.

And the UKC one looks the same in Lightroom.
In reply to ChrisJD:

Maybe it was the authors preference but the the rocks on the right and the sky are quite a vibrant orange and blue in Firefox viewing the Flickr (RGBa) image.

I think I prefer it artistically but the slightly washed out one is more life-like.
 GarethSL 28 Sep 2011
In reply to SeanB: Looking at your album you have 'owt to be worried about, though makes one wonder what the originals are like!

Superb album by the way!
 mr rob 29 Sep 2011
In reply to SeanB:

There is one major difference between the two.

One has a white background
One has a black background

There are a massive number of optical illusions demonstration the appearance of luminosity

For and example
http://web.mit.edu/persci/people/adelson/checkershadow_illusion.html

It may be one reason for this
In reply to SeanB:

I have changed the title of this thread so that it is findable again since it contains some very useful information.

Alan
OP Sean Bell 29 Sep 2011
In reply to mr rob:
> (In reply to SeanB)
>
> There is one major difference between the two.
>
> One has a white background
> One has a black background
>
> There are a massive number of optical illusions demonstration the appearance of luminosity
>
> For and example
> http://web.mit.edu/persci/people/adelson/checkershadow_illusion.html
>
> It may be one reason for this

Thanks, Im aware of that, but its the same issue when both are viewed against white.The reason has been worked out and an answer found (sRGB instead of Adobe RGB when uploading) so Im happy with that.


In reply to SeanB: I just wanted to check that we aren't stripping off any colour profile data when you upload a photo to UKC:
- http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=183436

that is a test upload of your photo that I extracted from Flickr, which has the AdobeRGB profile embedded in it. As you can see, the colour profile is correctly preserved after being uploaded to UKC

I presume that when you created a version of that photo for UKC, whatever saving method or tool you used, it removed the colour profile (without doing the correct colour conversion) and so defaults to sRGB instead, and looks wrong.

So the take home messages are:

1. You *can* upload AdobeRGB color photos to UKC and they will work, but not all browsers support it, so the photo colours will look wrong for some users

2. You are better off ticking the 'convert to sRGB' option when you save your photo, before uploading to UKC. That way the colours will look as you intended for all users, with any web browser

Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention.
 The Pylon King 03 Oct 2011
In reply to Paul Phillips - UKC:
> (In reply to Nick Smith - UKC)
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> If you make sure the photo you upload to UKC is using the sRGB IEC 61966-2.1 colour space then it will be displayed on UKC with the correct colour saturation. The problem is with Adobe RGB colour space images.
>
> You can select the sRGB colour profile by checking the "Convert to sRGB" tickbox on the "Save to Web & Devices" in Photoshop or by selecting the sRGB colour space in Lightroom when exporting a jpeg.
>
> I guess this hasn't cropped up before as most people get sRGB images from the camera. I personally use Adobe RGB on my camera, but when saving for web use, it should always be in sRGB.
>
> Thanks, Paul.

Aha that explains it. thanks Paul
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