UKC

I'm looking for the most lightweight, efficient, gas stove for snow melting and water boiling for expedition use for three people sharing a tent. Does anybody have any recommendations? I was looking at the MSR Reactor with a 2l pan, or some of the Primus ETA stoves, is there anything else I should be looking at? On this trip I'm not planning to use a liquid fuel stove.

In reply to Dave: weve got an optimus crux stove its rally small and light weight and worked well in the alps the past couple of times. I don't know if its the most efficient and best out there but it works for us.

If you shop around you can pick it up for £20

In reply to scotlass:

Thanks, I'll have a look. I estimate the stove is going to have to melt snow for 12l of water per day for two weeks or so. Are the expensive heat exchanger pans really that much more efficient ? Or for the extra weight can you just put in a couple more gas cylinders ?

In reply to Dave:

exchangers make a serious difference, especially in the cold, for multiday trips.

ive boiled my use down to 2:

reactor - heavy but the most powerful and efficient

jetboil sumo - significantly lighter, a bit less efficient, but clips together for better (& safer) use in bivvys/hanging, the colour-change thing that indicates near boiling is useful

both are good sizes for 2 or 3 people.

one thing is, the reactor pot makes a better scoop for shovelling snow into your snowbag.
the jetboil pot is more user friendly.

in the end i usually go with the sumo due to its useability, and this winter im going to play about with an ortik heat-it to see if thats worth the weight.

In reply to Dave:

I'd go Jet boil - melting snow is epic. Or an MSR XG-K type thing - its what they're deigned for.

Others will have more experience than me but if you want to cook and drink after a big hill day you want to get it done asap - maybe a stove isn't the thing to skimp on.

In reply to Dave:

Bit more research, how about the Jetboil Helios ?

In reply to Dave:

There were a few issues with the Reactor stove being recalled due to something going pop underneath if you knocked the unit too hard. (apologies for very bague recall technical information!) If this happens, you'll have to send it back and its about 20 quid to get it drilled out and replaced.

Saying that, Ive used one in the past and not a problem despite all my best efforts to drop it onto rocks!

How cold is it where you are going? If it is baltic, you may have issues with the gas so my top tip for the day is, crack open a hand warmer and tape it to the bottom of the canister to keep it a wee bit warmer, ive found it works wonders.

In reply to Denni:

that was supposed to say "very vague recall technical info"

In reply to Dave:

Bit of a hijack but will probably give some info...

Anyone know how an msr pocket rocket performs at altitude/cold temps?

I've been using one happily all summer but recently used it just below zero, with a primus gas canister, and it was very down on power.

In reply to Dave:

helios is ok, but more of a BC thing. the sumo has come out to replace it for when you want the regular jetboil features (locking together etc).

have used a pocketrocket up high and cold, tho its more the gas which is the issue, needing to be treated like a baby.
not very efficient, but still works.

In reply to ice.solo:

Ok cool, cheers for the info mate.

In reply to Dave 88:

Great question Dave. I certInly learnt some new things.

In reply to radson:
Certainly

How are people finding canister availability for jetboils etc in the more remote parts of the world?

In reply to radson:

where i go you can usually pick them up in big cities, or in pakistan your best chances are buying them off local exped companies if they have spare (ATP, nazir sabir etc).

another option is to get a stove that uses butane cartridges - not so great for real cold, but more available it seems.

In reply to Denni:


I'm going to Antarctica, but not the very cold bits. The cold efficiency was one reason I liked the idea of the Jetboil Helios, which an upside down canister so the pressure just has to push liquid gas through and not pressure a high flow of gas through the whole thing. Needlesport referenced a Rock and Ice review which made it and the Reactor seem like good choices. I've previously used MSR XGK or similar for this sort of purpose, but this time the plan is gas only.

In reply to Dave: You probably already know this but Jetboil (and other gas stoves?) is rated to -6. Lower than that and you are warming gas canisters using the 2nd stove you took with you...

good point and thumbs up for multi fuel solutions

In reply to Nigel Modern:

Thanks, I had noticed that, we should be OK on the Peninsula in summer, or so I'm told!

Dave

In reply to Dave:


Do you remember trying to get my pocket rocket to work after we slept on the verandah of the national park centre at Helvetinjärvi? I got exceedingly cold hands trying to warm it up enough to work! Gas definitely has its limits!

In reply to Dave: climbing in the alps our pocket rocket was pathetic compared to the reactor...

In reply to Dave: Isn't petrol much more efficient than gas anyway? Sure you can't really keep it in the tent but still

In reply to Dave:

Hi Dave,
I have used a bog standard jetboil and and a reactor on an ice study from the McMurdo Station and the Reactor worked better. We did use them in a tent where it was warmer, relatively speaking, but neither of them would have been good enough for sustained

We also used an msr multi fuel stove which was excellent. I can't remember the exact name but I think it is an xkg or something like that.

What are you doing, anything exciting!
Den

In reply to Dave: You're making me jealous...have a good trip

In reply to Hannes:

For an extended trip I think petrol will work out lighter but I have often wondered about this one and I'm interested in anyone who has done calculations or has experience.

The efficiency of your fuel will massively outweigh any small differences between weight of stoves.

I think I'd take my MSR. I'm told (if I remember correctly)you need 100mls (= 100g) petrol per man per day when melting snow for cooking etc

In reply to Dave: Seen this?

http://www.sierradescents.com/camping/2008/05/17/how-to-melt-snow-for-water...

In reply to Nigel Modern: Jetboil is a fuel miser, a Simmerlite is apparently like a Whisperlite

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_disp...

In reply to Nigel Modern:

Right.... we need data. So here are some figures gleaned from the MSR and Jetboil websites.

MSR XGK EX
Water boiled (white gas) per 1 oz. of fuel, 1.5 liters
Water boiled (kerosene) per 1 oz. of fuel, 1.7 liters
Water boiled (diesel) per 1 oz. of fuel, 1.9 liters

Jetboil Helios
Water boiled (Jetboil's gas?) per 1 oz. of fuel, 3.0 liters

MSR Reactor
Water boiled (MSR IsoPro) per 1 oz. of fuel, 2.8 liters

Which makes some sense from these energy content figures found on the ever reliable internet which say that propane and butane have a higher energy content/g than petrol, diesel and kerosene. But the energy density of the liquid fuels is greater, particularly diesel.

Fuel type.....................................................MJ/kg
Regular gasoline/petrol....................................34.8
Autogas (LPG) (60% propane and 40% butane..~51
Diesel..........................................................~48
Jet fuel, kerosene..........................................~47

All of which leads me to think that a modern, efficient gas stove maybe the way to go, if you can get gas cylinders. Regarding the temperature issue and gas, that seems to be mostly sorted with the upside cylinder idea of Jetboil, they reckon it works down to -23C. I'm almost sold on getting a Jetboil Helios. Review here from Rock & Ice. http://www.jetboil.com/files/img/News/rockice.jpg

In reply to Denni:


An exploratory ski mountaineering trip on the Peninsular, planning to go a bit further South than some others have been. And sailing from Ushuaia, to add some misery at the beginning and end of the trip!

In reply to Dave: Helios - They seem to have solved the low temperature issues and fuel efficiency should be good. I might have to change my mind about gas stoves :O)

In reply to Nigel Modern:
I have a reactor. It seriously boils water in about 30secs in the hut. Great when sharing in a group and pumping out the De-hy meals, It also performs alot better in the wind than other stoves I've had so reliable when bivving. Also simple and reliable, no possibility of spilling white spirits on fingers...So Cold!