/ NEWS: Women's Climbing Symposium

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UKC News - on 15 Nov 2011
Women's Climbing Symposium 2011 - a full lecture, 6 kbOn November 5th at The Climbing Hangar in Liverpool, women from around Britain met up for the Women's Climbing Symposium organised by British Bouldering Champion, Shauna Coxsey. Ged MacDomhnaill gives some thoughts on the day and the report includes the film the Gender Project by Mike South.

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=64954
In reply to UKC News: "Starting the day off, Vicki Cassell, British Bouldering Team Sport Psychologist, presented on negative habits and behaviours that effect climbing performance and perspectives on our climbing. The presentation was supported by fresh research, conducted in house, on the day, which involved Emma Twyford unwittingly falling off very easy moves in the middle of a boulder problem. The experiment was testing to see how many of the other climbers who attempted it (having seen Emma fall off) would get past where Emma had climbed up to. Less than 4% of those that tried the problem exceeded Emma's 'highpoint', demonstrating the negative impact of comparing ones talent against another."

Really interesting observation.
andyb211 - on 15 Nov 2011
In reply to UKC News: Rock on Girls, stuff the critics and carry on cranking and having fun. A xx
Dizz - on 15 Nov 2011
In reply to Submit to Gravity: Have to say that I had an excellent day and learnt a lot technique wise, and have been actually noticing a difference in my climbing performance indoors since - not had a chance to go outside yet. It was not fluffy - have never done so many pull ups before - not sure I've recovered yet! There was a recognition of the need to develop strength as well as technique. I think the problem of negative perceptions affecting climbing performance is one that is not gender specific, as climbing is so much about confidence and faith in ability - from my experience of climbing with men and women, men have the same doubts but maybe do not voice them as often in general? Was very good to have the discussions too, as there were a range of points of view on all topics, including preferred climbing partners (male/female), and perceptions of risk.
simes303 - on 15 Nov 2011
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
This only means something if you know how many would have fallen off if Emma had not.
tlm - on 15 Nov 2011
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
> Emma Twyford unwittingly falling off very easy moves "

Do you think it really meant to say 'unwittingly' or do you think it meant wittingly (on purpose, rather than by accident?
In reply to tlm: I'm not sure, but the impression I got was that the fall was staged to prove the point. Would be interesting to know how many people went on to pass the point of fall easily once the point of it had been explained.
Tom Last - on 15 Nov 2011
In reply to tlm:

I think the latter. I agree with Simes303 though, it's meaningless without further information, after all perhaps all of the other climbers were just rubbish (not saying this was the case, but it's certainly one conclusion that could be dawn).
Tru - on 15 Nov 2011
In reply to Southern Man:

I agree it was not a perfectly controlled experiment but it does raise an interesting point.

I imagine if this had been a male only event and male climbers had witnessed a pro fall from a problem it would have had the reverse affect where male egos would be spurred on to climb higher than the pro.

I find sport psychology very interesting and gender involvement is not something I had considered before.
tom290483 - on 15 Nov 2011
In reply to UKC News:

looks like a great turn out. well done shauna.

i'd be interested to know what the mental women who started a thread layin into the whole symposium thing would think now having seen how well taken up it was.
TCH - Changed - on 15 Nov 2011
In reply to tom290483:

Ann, the lady who started the anti-thread, was gracious enough to acknowledge her error in 'going like a bull in a china shop' (her words before having investigated the event, she has since emailed Shauna, apologised for the outburst, apologised on the thread she started and wished her all the best and was annoyed at being unavailable to make the event.

Just thought I would clear that up as it is rare to have people be noble enough to publicly say they were wrong, in particular on forums where you can be anonymous!
blob on 15 Nov 2011 - 95.145.255.9 whois?
In reply to tom290483:
> (In reply to UKC News)

>
> i'd be interested to know what the mental women who started a thread layin into the whole symposium thing would think now having seen how well taken up it was.

That's woman, not women.

A bit harsh, no?

Kyuzo on 15 Nov 2011
In reply to UKC News:

This sounds like a great event, good video too. I clicked play, not really expecting to watch it, but then suddenly it ended! Very interesting.
Ann Davis - on 16 Nov 2011
In reply to tom290483:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> looks like a great turn out. well done shauna.
>
> i'd be interested to know what the mental women who started a thread layin into the whole symposium thing would think now having seen how well taken up it was.

The `mental woman` as you so graciously describe me as thinks that there is probably a real need for future womens climbing symposium days to be equally as successful and well received. Topic up for discussion..`misogyny is alive and thriving within UKC forums`
I would hope that I should feel able to open a debate without my personal metal state being described pejorative terms. You`ve just displayed discrimination against me as a female and anyone out there that suffers from mental health issues...
I look forward to attending the next symposium where I`m sure such discrimination wont be presnt
mike kann - on 16 Nov 2011
In reply to Ann Davis: Give it a break. Or are you being tongue in cheek? You know your response was OTT and might be described by some as "mental". Why on earth would you object to a bunch of women getting together and discussing how operating in a male dominated sport might (or might not) affect your performance and how you can improve that perfermance as a result of what you find? Anyway - you've said you were wrong so you obviously realise it...
Toby S - on 16 Nov 2011
In reply to mike kann:

Wait a sec, she gets called 'mental' and she's supposed to accept this?! She's quite right to get riled. I seem to recall many people initially agreed with her. The main point being that the event poster was bloody awful and in her opinion some of the discussions sounded patronising. Hardly mental!

She was persuaded otherwise and was able to accept that she had got the wrong impression of the event and even apologised which was pretty grown up of her. But still, typical of UKC, folk like to put the boot in when someone's down.
Ann Davis - on 16 Nov 2011
In reply to Toby S:
Cheers Toby - voice of reason
JFort on 17 Nov 2011
In reply to UKC News:

This event sounded great and I'm gutted I missed it, but pleased to hear of one being planned for next year. Would it be possible to have it in Scotland now that we have the new TCA as well as Ratho? It'd be good to not have to drive for hours to get it, one of the reasons I couldn't go to Liverpool. Or maybe two a year, one in Englandshire and one in Scotland? I guess it's pretty hard to find a location to suit all and Liverpool is pretty much in the middle of the UK!
Well done Shauna!!
Rachel Slater - on 17 Nov 2011
In reply to UKC News:

I think its slightly annoying how in the video they only show couples in which the male climbs harder. I climb a grade harder than my boyfriend outside and several grades harder inside, We both love climbing an do it all the time yet I found I couldn't identify with any of the women in the video. It almost seems like this video stereotypes men as always climbing harder than women. Maybe they should have shown some couples who are exceptions to this rule? What do other people think?
Jim at Work on 17 Nov 2011
In reply to UKC News:
I too would have loved to have been there, but as I'm male.... sounds a great day. I'd also love to think that something similar could happen for men, but have this suspicion that the dynamics might not work...? What do others think? I'm 61 and climb at Westway, which has hoardes of women climbing far better (& harder) than me, despite my many years of practice. (Also hoardes of blokes too!) There seemed a lot of stuff I could have benefitted from: maybe there's a market niche in there somewhere?
Howard J - on 17 Nov 2011
In reply to UKC News: Most of the issues in the video were not to do with women or men but due to climbing in an unbalanced team. Most of the issues would arise regardless of the sex of the climbers.

If it's just about climbing, most people will team up with someone of a similar standard, or if they are of different standards then they accept there will be compromises by both parties. It only becomes a problem when either or both or the climbers become dissatisfied with the arrangement.

The climbers in the video were either in relationships or were at least mates. They climbed together because they want to climb with that person. If the difference in ability is a problem, they need to decide whether to carry on climbing together or find other climbing partners. You can't have it both ways. Some will be happy to do so without seeing it as a threat to their relationship, while for others being together is more important. They're both perfectly valid and respectable approaches.

The issues are really about relationships rather than climbing.

tom290483 - on 17 Nov 2011
In reply to Ann Davis:
> (In reply to tom290483)
> [...]
>
> I would hope that I should feel able to open a debate without my personal metal state being described pejorative terms. You`ve just displayed discrimination against me as a female and anyone out there that suffers from mental health issues...
> I look forward to attending the next symposium where I`m sure such discrimination wont be presnt

as the kids would say these days...... "OMG"

Ann Davis - on 18 Nov 2011
In reply to tom290483:

oops sorry didnt think I had to get down with `da kids... most young folk up here dont go name calling to get their point across!
I do take offence at your choice of words as I work with adults with mental health issues and learning disabilities

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